Martin Monel Tony Rice strings on Eastman archtop acoustics!

**10course** · 12-04-2015, 04:44 AM

I should be asleep right now, but I strung my Eastman 805 NC with Martin Monel strings and played past midnight (on a work night....pay for it tomorrow) because I was so stoked! I could only find 12s locally, but did not detect a loss of volume from my usual 13-56 Martin SP 80/20s.

All I can say to describe it is that it added warm mids almost like that of my 17" 810 and 610. Everything I played sounded great other than the earlier 20s music like Fats Waller--- which sounds better to me when a bit more metallic with crashing down strokes. I wish I had descent recording gear to post an A/B comparison for everyone.
This should be a separate thread, but any suggestions on "basic" good sounding recording gear?

**Jabberwocky** · 12-04-2015, 05:49 AM

That good, huh? I got a box of 10 sets sitting in a cardboard box, ready to be strung up. This gives me some impetus. I just need to get my Slaman 1923 L5-inspired archtop restored to its original specifications.

(It has a gold floating pickup mounted on a loud spotted leopard pickguard and a horrible horrible horrible Fishman endpin jack with a stupid large hole drilled into the end-block, and a replacement gold crossbar tailpiece. Ordered a new dark tortoiseshell pickguard and 1923-style nickel wraparound tailpiece from Daniel. Wondering how I am going to plug up that damn 1/2" hole in the end-block. That's another of my pet peeve: If you love your guitars, please please please for the love of the God of Luthiery, please eschew the use of the horrible horrible execrable guitar-value-damaging Fishman endpin jack. I am going to war against its use. Use a Tapastring Vintage Jack instead. Oops, sorry, 10course.)

**rpguitar** · 12-04-2015, 09:54 AM

Jab,

They do make these to plug up 1/2" jack holes:
NoJak Endpin | stewmac.com

Plus I've seen fancier wood ones as well.

I keep hearing about these Monels and really should try them.

**fws6** · 12-04-2015, 10:07 AM

How you turn the screw on that nohack thingy ? For an archtop seems quite problematic ...

**rpguitar** · 12-04-2015, 10:14 AM

Yeah, maybe. The fancy wood ones I referred to are just the standard push-in/friction type.

**Woody Sound** · 12-04-2015, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by fws6

How you turn the screw on that nohack thingy ? For an archtop seems quite problematic ...

I think the screw is simply a depth stopper for the pin? It looks to me like you push the collar in first at a semi-loose fit. Then push in the pin which spreads the collar to tighten it in the hole. You might have to try it a couple of time with the screw already in to get the right depth. Unless I am misunderstanding your question(?)

**10course** · 12-04-2015, 12:38 PM

They drilled out Pre-war Gibsons in production. I bet that hole is more than 1/2. For me, its context: a pristine L-5, Super 400, L-7, Broadway/ Deluxe, Stromberg, or the like that started out acoustic and managed to remain so during the 50s, I say don't drill it.
However, Didn't even Gibson drill out the L50 to make the first Es150? I am guilty of putting Fischman style jack on one of my Eastmans....

**powerwagonjohn** · 12-04-2015, 12:41 PM

I have been using the Martin monel strings on my 1952 L-4 and they do sound great on that guitar. It adds some warmth and richness to the sound. I also found that they work well with the De Armond 1000 pick up on the guitar. I tried them on my 1956 Es-225 and did not like them on that guitar. I may try them on my Guild D-50 acoustic to hear how they sound on there but they will stay on the L-4 for sure and I may try them on my L-4CES too.
Thanks John

**Max405** · 12-04-2015, 12:56 PM

Jabbs,
Can you explain the reason for your war against the Fishman Endpin Jack? Is the Fishman jack any different than the Switchcraft endpin jack? Is it the large hole in the endblock that bothers you?
You got me concerned.
JD

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

That good, huh? I got a box of 10 sets sitting in a cardboard box, ready to be strung up. This gives me some impetus. I just need to get my Slaman 1923 L5-inspired archtop restored to its original specifications.

(It has a gold floating pickup mounted on a loud spotted leopard pickguard and a horrible horrible horrible Fishman endpin jack with a stupid large hole drilled into the end-block, and a replacement gold crossbar tailpiece. Ordered a new dark tortoiseshell pickguard and 1923-style nickel wraparound tailpiece from Daniel. Wondering how I am going to plug up that damn 1/2" hole in the end-block. That's another of my pet peeve: If you love your guitars, please please please for the love of the God of Luthiery, please eschew the use of the horrible horrible execrable guitar-value-damaging Fishman endpin jack. I am going to war against its use. Use a Tapastring Vintage Jack instead. Oops, sorry, 10course.)

**Jabberwocky** · 12-04-2015, 01:34 PM

OK, OK, I created another tempest in the teacup. First, thanks rp for the recommendation of No Jak but no plastic bungs up my rear end! Please. Don't like the look of fudge either.

10course, yeah, the prewar ES-150/ES-250 CC has the large socket/cup/receptor but that is part of its original design and I have no issue with that. Wouldn't want it any other way.

Well, Joe, the Fishman endpin jack removes more wood from the end-block, maple rim and metal from the tailpiece than I desire. A miniscule amount no doubt but it looks ugly as sin and I feel that it takes some woody resonance away from my guitar. I have read Frank Ford's effort to reverse the damage done by the Fishman jack on a Brasilian Rosewood Martin Dreadnought and figured out that folks regret installing it. What seemed like a good idea then isn't so good now.

Mainly, it is because I hate ugly invasive modifications to designs that don't call for such desecrations. The pre-war 16" L5 is a beautiful design, whether original or clone. Don't go drilling holes in it.

**Max405** · 12-04-2015, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

Well, Joe, the Fishman endpin jack removes more wood from the end-block, maple rim and metal from the tailpiece than I desire. A miniscule amount no doubt but it looks ugly as sin and I feel that it takes some woody resonance away from my guitar. I have read Frank Ford's effort to reverse the damage done by the Fishman jack on a Brasilian Rosewood Martin Dreadnought and figured out that folks regret installing it. What seemed like a good idea then isn't so good now.

Mainly, it is because I hate ugly invasive modifications to designs that don't call for such desecrations. The pre-war 16" L5 is a beautiful design, whether original or clone. Don't go drilling holes in it.

Ok I understand, I see where you are coming from. Thanks for taking the time to explain.
JD

**Bluedawg** · 12-04-2015, 05:29 PM

Hmmmm ... and I was just at my favorite store yesterday ...

I'll have to add these strings on my list to try on my Campellone acoustic that I just got

It came with bronze roundwounds and I find them rather raspy sounding at times ...

**KirkP** · 12-04-2015, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by rpguitar

Jab,

They do make these to plug up 1/2" jack holes:
NoJak Endpin | stewmac.com

To install this in an archtop, you'd need to figure out how to turn that screw from inside the instrument!

**teleman3726** · 12-04-2015, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by Bluedawg

Hmmmm ... and I was just at my favorite store yesterday ...

I'll have to add these strings on my list to try on my Campellone acoustic that I just got

It came with bronze roundwounds and I find them rather raspy sounding at times ...

I put a set on my Campy and it never sounded better.

**campusfive** · 12-04-2015, 10:52 PM

Glad you like the Monels.

**marshall** · 12-06-2015, 06:59 PM

I have been using them on my Eastman and Yamaha flat top for some time now. I really like them.

**10course** · 12-07-2015, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by powerwagonjohn

I have been using the Martin monel strings on my 1952 L-4 and they do sound great on that guitar. It adds some warmth and richness to the sound. I also found that they work well with the De Armond 1000 pick up on the guitar. I tried them on my 1956 Es-225 and did not like them on that guitar. I may try them on my Guild D-50 acoustic to hear how they sound on there but they will stay on the L-4 for sure and I may try them on my L-4CES too.
Thanks John

I tried them on guitars with the Reissue DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1000 and 1100. I had to lower the position of the pickup for the 1000, but it sounded great once I did. ---I had the RC 1000 positioned high because of my action and the use of 80/20 bronze wounds which didn't read as loud as the plain steel.
Did you have to lower yours, or were you already using electric strings?

**Gemberbier2** · 01-16-2017, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by 10course

I tried them on guitars with the Reissue DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1000 and 1100. I had to lower the position of the pickup for the 1000, but it sounded great once I did. ---I had the RC 1000 positioned high because of my action and the use of 80/20 bronze wounds which didn't read as loud as the plain steel.
Did you have to lower yours, or were you already using electric strings?

You were using the WRONG strings with a NON-magnetic wrapping (bronze) in combination with a magnetic pick-up. The only signal the pick-up that your magnetic pick-up could generate came from the core of your wound strings, and that was a very weak sound of course, compared to fully magnetic strings like let's say d'Addario Chromes, that are actually not made of chrome but stainless steel containing a small amount of NICKEL.

Now, your new Monel strings have a wrapping that was made of an ALLOY that contains magnetic NICKEL, so they will work properly with a magnetic pick-up. I expect that they will sound pretty much the same as DR Zebra strings, that have parallel alternating wrappings of phosphor (?) bronze and nickel steel. The materials are just not an alloy, but they are there and the magnetic component can do its work.

Using 80/20 bronze (or 85/15 or phosphor bronze) strings with magnetic pickups was an intuitive non-scientific choice and a waste of money.
Using Monel strings on a jazz box because they carry the name of Tony Rice (who is a FLAT picker, not a jazz player) is also an intuitive choice, but in this case it might actually work out fine, because of the nickel that's in the Monel alloy.

But the Tony Rice strings are .013"-.056", so quite heavy. If your guitar neck is used to .011"-.049/.050" or .012"-.053/.054" you should buy the Martin Monel strings WITHOUT his famous name on them, which are Martin Retro strings. You should avoid needing a total new set-up of your guitar (truss-rod, floating bridge position for correct intonation etc.). That's a bit of a guess here, because we don't have a sheet with all individual string tensions available for Martin strings, such as the one available on the www for d'Addario. This is important if you are switching from flatwounds to roundwounds, because the flatwounds have a thicker core and therefore a higher tension. Without these data, you cannot calculate in advance that you will need a certain set or combination of strings, but you are intuitively guessing again, hoping that everything works out fine, and probably wasting money on these guesses.
btw:
d'Addario has new NB (Nickel Bronze) strings, which might be in the d'Addario string tension sheet (I didn't check yet).
They were tested with the Martin Retro's and d'Addario Phosphor Bronze on youtube. IMO the Martin Retro Monel strings sounded mellower and I liked them better for jazz, but I (often) like mellow sounding strings/guitars.

**Gemberbier2** · 01-16-2017, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by powerwagonjohn

I have been using the Martin monel strings on my 1952 L-4 and they do sound great on that guitar. It adds some warmth and richness to the sound. I also found that they work well with the De Armond 1000 pick up on the guitar. I tried them on my 1956 Es-225 and did not like them on that guitar. I may try them on my Guild D-50 acoustic to hear how they sound on there but they will stay on the L-4 for sure and I may try them on my L-4CES too.
Thanks John

That's an idea for my 1919 L-4, as soon as my phosphor bronze strings start sounding dull.
On an L-4CES or ES-175D it's a gamble. IMO the acoustics on these guitars are of no importance at all.
I have no reason to replace my (rather expensive) d'Addario Chromes with Monel strings.
They would be an option, IF I were using roundwound nickel steel at the moment, but I'm not.

**mr. beaumont** · 01-16-2017, 11:21 PM

On the right guitar, they're just outstanding.

I'll never use anything else on my Godin Kingpin.

**omphalopsychos** · 01-16-2017, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by Gemberbier2

d'Addario has new NB (Nickel Bronze) strings, which might be in the d'Addario string tension sheet (I didn't check yet).
They were tested with the Martin Retro's and d'Addario Phosphor Bronze on youtube. IMO the Martin Retro Monel strings sounded mellower and I liked them better for jazz, but I (often) like mellow sounding strings/guitars.

I tested these both on my Eastman archtop, and I found that I much preferred the d'Addario Nickel Bronze strings. They were very similar to the Martin Retros but with significantly more bass. I haven't tested them with a magnetic pickup, however, so I can't comment on the amplified tone.