DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1000 + 1100 sound comparison

[Doctor Jeff]

One way to age metal pieces is to treat them with ammonia fumes:

9 DIY Recipes For Rusty Hardware

I have done a lot of relic'ed wood pieces over the years and have used this technique for the hardware.

Re' the RC 1000 - it is a nice pickup, somewhat unbalanced with the pure nickel strings I have now. (The nickel strings are quite a bit brighter than I was expecting--have a much mellower sound on my Tele.) Not a big deal, just requires a little adjustment of playing style. I have heard that the string balance is dependent upon the strings themselves, and bronze strings actually work better with this pickup. I have not gotten around to changing strings however.

I went with the 1000 mainly for the clean look on my Harmony.

[Marty Grass]

Both sound great really. The 1000 doesn't carry the higher frequencies as well. I'll bet it's easier to make the 1100 sound like the 1000 by rolling off the treble than it would be for the 1000 to sound like the 1100.

Both are beautiful sounding though. Imagine how exciting it was when these pickups were first available. Definitely game changers.

[lawson-stone]

Dang. What is there to say. Sounded good ever-which-way. I'd take any of them. Sure, the 1100 is more versatile, but if I was given the other pickup, I'd consider it Birthday and Christmas combined!

And what splendid playing. That is how a ballad ought to be played. Superb. What guitar wouldn't sound great played like that?

[skykomishone]

First,

Thank you Jazzbo and Erik te Kamp. That is the best demo I've ever heard (and seen, with the visuals). I think it's the 1100 for me.

Secondly, I'm thinking of putting one on my '44 L7. It has an absolutely sublime acoustic sound, and plays better than most great archtops I've been fortunate to play. So when I get to thinking that I need to have a different guitar to play out at a small venue because I need an amp, and the guitar needs a p/u, I could likely be very happy with the 1100 on the L7.

So, I need to try one of these. Where do you get them that I won't have to give an arm or leg, probably the later, since I'll need the arm to play?

Thanks,

Steve

[KirkP]

...Where do you get them that I won't have to give an arm or leg, probably the later, since I'll need the arm to play?

Direct from Guild. They shipped mine quicky. Now I must find time to install it on my L-7.
https://shop.guildguitars.com/produc...0-pickup-gold/
I like the idea of antiquing it to match the guitar, but I hate to risk messing it up. A jewelry maker said putting shiny metal in a closed container with a couple of hard boiled eggs for a couple of days will dull the finish, but if the metal has a clearcoat, that must be removed first.

[skykomishone]

What about the Armstrong Handmade Floating Single Coil ?

And, some controls on the pickguard?

[jazzbow]

First,

Thank you Jazzbo and Erik te Kamp. That is the best demo I've ever heard (and seen, with the visuals). I think it's the 1100 for me.

Steve

Y'know Mr te Kamp has quite a few choice video's on YT. He posted here for a short time but has moved on,

[Doctor Jeff]

I did a little research and found out that the Guild Savoy A-150 ships with D'Addario Chrome 12 flats (ECG25), so that's what I will be putting on the guitar. The Pure Nickels are just too bright.

BTW in case you're interested what's inside the Rhythm Chief:

David Schwab's DeArmond repair

Pickup surgery is not for the faint of heart.

[nopedals]

I just bought one of the RI 1100s. It went on a guitar that used to have a real model 1000, and FWIW the neck rod screw holes matched exactly. Over the years I have owned 2 model 1000s, 2 FHCs, and a Model 41. I have not hooked the 1100 up to a volume or tone pot or capacitor, but have a very favorable impression so far; it looks and sounds like the real thing to me, and dead quiet, too. When I get a chance I will try to do a quick comparison between the RI 1100, the vintage model 41, and a P90 (ie, what I have right now).

[feet]

also preferred the 1100. it sounded a little more finished, if you like. had a more polished, slightly electric tone. the 1000 was a little bit louder but a little more wild, too. intriguing and encouraging.

[KirkP]

In spite of the similar names and shape, the 1000 and 1100 appear to have major design differences beyond the screws and cosmetics. According to the Guild site, the 1000 model has an Alnico 5 magnet and 15.40K resistance. The 1100 model has a rubber magnet and 6.60K resistance. It's not surprising they sound different.

Someone mentioned the Kent armstrong pickup supposedly based on the 1100 (in performance, not cosmestics). It would be interesting to hear a comparison of those two on the same guitar.

[Greentone]

Welcome to the world of DeArmond. Now you see why the little suckers are so danged expensive in their vintage guise. They sound, to my ears, the best of all pickups you can put on carved archtop guitars. By the way, I liked both the 1100 and the 1000 in this test. They sounded different from each other, but immediately sounded "DeArmond," to me. Even the humble DeArmond "Guitar Mic" pickup sounds like a million bucks to me. I used one for years and years on my '38 L50, until I decided that the old guitar was to be played purely as an acoustic guitar.

I don't think that anyone will ever regret purchasing a DeArmond, but getting an 1100 is the best way to go.

[Burrellesque]

I'm using flatwound Thomastik Jazz Swing 13's with my DeArmond 1000 and find the string balance to be fine.

I raised the treble side of the pickup a touch with an extra piece of felt.

Great sounding pickup!

[nopedals]

The RI 1100 needs a little bit more string clearance than the RI 1000.

[Greentone]

Good things come to those who wait. The OP should wait for the 1100. Both pickups are great, but the adjustable pole pieces on the 1100 are definitely worth it. You end up with much more flexibility in string choice.

[Burrellesque]

I'm setting up one of the Guild DeArmond 1100 reissues on a pick guard, but I already have an original 1000 on my L7.

Sounds great! Played a gig it last night and couldn't be happier with it.
I think its an early unit... it measures 7 ohms.

Looking forward to comparing it to the 1100.

[pingu]

How come they don't sell the
reissue 1000 and 1100 with the
Monkey stick and control box ?

Or do they now ?

[KirkP]

How come they don't sell the
reissue 1000 and 1100 with the
Monkey stick and control box ?

Or do they now ?

I think they originally reissued the 1000 to install on the Guild A150 Savoy, which attached to the neck. The 1100 was for the American Patriarch Artist Award, now out of production. The market for monkey sticks and control boxes might be too thin to be profitable.
A-150 Savoy in Blonde – Guild Guitars

[Burrellesque]

I'm enjoying the monkey stick set up myself, it's a very convenient way of 'electrifying' an acoustic arch top.

You would think there would be more arch top owners willing to work with the stick set up than to drill a couple of holes in their guitar and add all the pots, controls and input jack to fit a floater?

[newanimal]

Just acquired a nice 1950 Epi Zenith and it came with a Olsen floater which read at 4.15k. Just learning about floating p'ups and get that the Olsen is not is not comparable to the DeArmonds especially at 4.15k. I'm confused why there's such a difference in the 1100 and 1000 in dc resistance 6.7k vs 15k in relation to what you hear. They don't seem to be that difference in sound but maybe it's my ears. I'd think the 1000 should be noticeably hotter than it is in comparison. And what's the "rubber" magnet about? I'm leaning towrds the 1100 for the Epi partly due to the adjustable poles. Should do this guitar a lot more justice.

[KirkP]

Just acquired a nice 1950 Epi Zenith and it came with a Olsen floater which read at 4.15k. Just learning about floating p'ups and get that the Olsen is not is not comparable to the DeArmonds especially at 4.15k. I'm confused why there's such a difference in the 1100 and 1000 in dc resistance 6.7k vs 15k in relation to what you hear. They don't seem to be that difference in sound but maybe it's my ears. I'd think the 1000 should be noticeably hotter than it is in comparison. And what's the "rubber" magnet about? I'm leaning towrds the 1100 for the Epi partly due to the adjustable poles. Should do this guitar a lot more justice.

Resistance doesn’t tell you much about how two pickups will compare if they are of different designs. The 1000 and 1100 are much different from each other. Here’s a good explainer.
Fralin Pickups: What does “Resistance” mean for pickups?

Here’s some cool info about classic DeArmond pickup designs, including those “rubber magnets.”
https://gitec-forum.de/wp/wp-content...armond-pus.pdf
According to that document, the DeArmond control unit uses a 1 M-ohm volume pot. I used a 500 M volume pot for my 1100. I wonder if I’m missing some highs as a result.

It also shows the “rhythm switch” which opens to put a capacitor in the signal chain for a bass cut when playing rhythm. Here are the original instructions for the 1000 describing that switch.
DeArmond Model 1000 non-adjustable Rhythm Chief guitar pickup | musicpickups.com

[newanimal]

Thanks for the helpful info site.
Since the RI 1100 come without control unit, I'm curious what RI 1100 owners have done to fashion their own volume/tone control. I'd assume the specs shown in the site above would be a good guide to start and mount components on the pick guard. I also like the idea of control unit that clamps on as it's out of the way in case you want to play without pick guard. Would need to locate a separate control unit though.

[newanimal]

Still searching for some feedback from anyone who's compared the Kent Armstrong floater, it's tapped to switch between 8k and 13k and adjustable poles.

"If you've been looking for the sound of the old DeArmond Model 1100 or Gibson P-90, but have been frustrated due to the scarcity, expense, and unreliability of the originals, your solution is here at last. A breakthrough in vintage style amplification, the Armstrong Handmade Floating Single Coil pickup is the world's only floating pickup that combines the brilliant response of traditional single coil design, with the flexibility of individually adjustable pole pieces for each string.The single coil winding and Alnico magnet replicates the wider frequency response of the classic Dearmond, Gibson P-90 and other classic pickups of the 40's and 50's,"

[KirkP]

Thanks for the helpful info site.
Since the RI 1100 come without control unit, I'm curious what RI 1100 owners have done to fashion their own volume/tone control. I'd assume the specs shown in the site above would be a good guide to start and mount components on the pick guard. I also like the idea of control unit that clamps on as it's out of the way in case you want to play without pick guard. Would need to locate a separate control unit though.

I used Schatten T2 thumbwheel controls, with the supplied cap. They are 500 ohms and seem to work well with the 1100. If you search the forum for Schatten you’ll find at least one thread about using them with DeArmond pickups.
T-2 Thumbwheel Controls — Schatten Pickups

The pickup does have a lot of bass, and I can now see why, looking at those frequency response charts. I’d be tempted to experiment with DeArmond’s “rhythm switch” circuit by putting a cap in series with the pickup to tame the bass. But it’s easier to simply roll back the bass on the amp.

[sgosnell]

Without a pickguard, it's easy enough to mount either a Schatten thumbwheel set or separate thumbwheels from other sources in the f hole, using mounting tape. If you want the caps and rhythm switch, the separate thumbwheels would be the way to go, although mounting the switch would be problematic without a pickguard. The big heavy unwieldy control box would not be my first choice.