Ibanez 2355 (pre-lawsuit ES-175)?

**mr quick** · 09-09-2015, 07:24 AM

I've found this:

Seller says: 1971 Ibanez 2355, first year of production.

Anyone know these guitars? It's up for $650, maybe I could haggle. Worth that money? What's the sound like? Any feedback on this guitar is much appreciated

**BigMikeinNJ** · 09-09-2015, 07:37 AM

Decent enough 175 copy, that is the original case (see the metal band around the bottom). $600.00 is reasonable already. Any chance you can actually try it in person first, the neck may be a little skinny compared to some older Gibson models.

**Franz 1997** · 09-09-2015, 08:36 AM

I have an Ibanez 1860 model, the model which comes before the 2355. It's a very decent 175 copy, and if you change the pickups it can sound very fat. It's a 1 10/16th ( 41mm) nut, which doesn't bother me.

I have directly compared it to my real 175s, and it's 'inside the ballpark' of 175 variances IMO.

**Archie** · 09-09-2015, 01:33 PM

At $650 with Original Hard Case, and in great looking condition? I'd jump all over it! Thats basically an early production (although dating it between 71 and 74 might be hard) 2355. Got the open book Gibson Headstock too!

Just do the usual checks, some times guitars this cheap can have a good reason. The top is a laminate spruce so its not quite the same sound as an ES-175. Its quite dark and heavy sounding but still great guitar.

If you don't want it, let me know where it is, I'll be interested.

**Greentone** · 09-09-2015, 06:50 PM

I remember when you could walk into Giant Music in the Washington DC area and get that guitar for $275 new. It was a VERY good guitar. It IS a very good guitar. The guy who owned Venemann's Music imported them as "Bradley" guitars. They were equally good.

Us teenagers in the DC-area were all over those Gibson-copy Ibanez guitars. I wanted to be a US Steve Howe back then, but I couldn't afford $450 for a ES-175. The Ibby was terribly attractive to me.

**mr quick** · 09-09-2015, 07:18 PM

This is why I come to this site. Many of you have first hand experiences(and good stories to follow!) with things I can only imagine. I sent the guy a message asking about the tuners, pickups, and truss rod. Any input is still welcome!

**mr quick** · 09-10-2015, 05:28 AM

Answer to my mail:

"The tuners are not original. Pickups seem original. Frets and nut are quite worn. Don't know about the truss rod. This is why it's priced like it is, if not, I would have asked the double."

...deal breaker?

**rpguitar** · 09-10-2015, 06:36 AM

Seems like a guy who can't be bothered much, just wants it gone. Factor in $350 USD for a re-fret and new nut, making it a $1K guitar. Truss rod is probably fine; he just has no clue how to check it and isn't motivated.

I don't let myself get too turned off by lazy sellers IF the price is still right and the odds are still good.

**fws6** · 09-10-2015, 09:20 AM

650 would be increadably low for a Euro price . And Scandinavian prices again are higher than anywhere else in Europe.

He is talking about Oslo, a city where a beer on avarage costs $9 and nothing else is particularly cheap either

So the seller doesnt want to bother to test the trussrod but instead prefers to sell at what he knows is 1/2 the price ?

**Little Jay** · 09-10-2015, 10:52 AM

If the trussrod is faulty then it wouldn't be a good deal. On the other hand: if the action looks fine in the pics, why would it be broken? It takes some real effort to mess up a trussrod. I would still go for it, great guitars.

I have a lower price range Japanese ES175 copy branded 'Condor' I bought for €150 and it's fantastic value for money.

**Franz 1997** · 09-10-2015, 11:14 AM

L J, I don't see how you can tell if the neck is capable of being straight from any pics, unless very close up. A crooked seller could loosen the strings to mask any problems.

Regarding fws6's point, I am suspicious too - but it could be the seller thinks the worn frets are the big issue ( and they are, if you are in London and paying £300 for a refret..!!) and is otherwise ignorant.

Let's face it, if you can't see the guitar in person, it's going to be a gamble. I'd probably take it, at that price, if I wanted one of these. They are very good copies.

**vinlander** · 09-10-2015, 12:07 PM

A copy (of the outside) is not a clone, so it might still sound good, but not necessarily like a genuine 175.
Different wood (spruce) in that case it seems, is already something different than maple.
Thunk if there is at all, will inevitably be affected.
If a refret and a nut job bring the price closer to 800$ -1000$ at the end and I would expect a 175 tone, maybe a brand new or even used Epiphone 175 Premium might do a better job at emulating the real deal.

**Little Jay** · 09-10-2015, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Franz 1997

L J, I don't see how you can tell if the neck is capable of being straight from any pics, unless very close up. A crooked seller could loosen the strings to mask any problems.

yes, I guess you are right. Could be the seller says 'I don't know about the trussrod' since he might have never used it, but there's no way to be sure.

**pubylakeg** · 09-10-2015, 03:19 PM

Perhaps you could ask the seller to do a 7 day approval/return period, and have a luthier check it out. An eventual refret isn't necessarily a deal breaker(depending on your budget) but I would consider a knackered truss rod on a poly finished guitar is pretty much a write off.

**mr quick** · 09-10-2015, 04:47 PM

Thanks for more input! Keep 'em coming!

The thing is, the Norwegian jazz guitar market is not very descent. There is, for instance, only two used ES-175's for sale, one of which by the same seller as this Ibanez. There are no Gibson carved top guitars for sale, and just one Heritage(and it's a solid-body). I'm going to have to buy used, I don't work two jobs(amounting to 120% employment, yikes) because I want to!

In short, you have to kind of take what there is as the market in Norway for jazz guitars is a big joke. People only play 666-style solid-bodies. I can afford a guitar, but I can't afford to make the wrong choice, if that makes sense

I can ask for more pictures, maybe? I'll update in the thread.

If anyone has any other ideas for what one might do, hit me up!

**mr quick** · 09-12-2015, 07:06 PM

The guy is slowly lowering the price. It's at $600 now. I'm definitely interested, but I won't get my paycheck until the end of the month.

Please, if anyone of you think I should refrain from buying this, let me know.

**Little Jay** · 09-13-2015, 03:50 AM

I don't know how you phrased your question about the trussrod, but ask him anyway if he knows if there are any issues with the trussrod and if it's working correctly (I guess his answer will be I don't know again) IF there's something wrong with it at least you are appealing at his honesty ;-) Ask also for a detailed picture of the trussrod nut, under the cover at the end of the neck. And more pictures of the action/string height, from different angles (along the neck, from the head down and from the bridge up). If the trussrod nut looks normal, not damaged and action looks good I would say there's no reason to assume the trussrod is not working, unless he's deliberately concealing something. I would google his name to see if he sells more guitars regularly, where's he's active. Of course it's all a gamble if you buy a guitar unseen. Oh, do ask for a picture of the bridge: if that's lowered all the down or if it's very high: that's a sing to pass on it!

I've only once bought a cheap acoustic guitar unseen from an auction side, but that was only €35 and I needed the set of tuners that was on it. There was only one unclear picture of it in the add and the seller told me the guitar was fine, only needed the trussrod adjusted. So I was prepared that there was something wrong with. Guess what? It was even worse, it arrived with the body totally unglued! It turned out to be a fun DIY project

But in your case: if the pictures of the trussrod nut and action look good and you can't find anything fishy about him on google, I think I would take the gamble. Just already calculate a refret an a nut-job.

**cmajor9** · 09-13-2015, 05:58 AM

Is there a reason you're restricting yourself to what is available in Norway? One of the advantages of the EU is that you can buy from other countries without paying tariffs; only shipping costs. You might take a look at both the eBays and local equivalents in Germany, Sweden, and the UK where there are greater choices.

**oldane** · 09-13-2015, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by Marwin Moody

The thing is, the Norwegian jazz guitar market is not very descent. There is, for instance, only two used ES-175's for sale, one of which by the same seller as this Ibanez. There are no Gibson carved top guitars for sale, and just one Heritage(and it's a solid-body).

In short, you have to kind of take what there is as the market in Norway for jazz guitars is a big joke.

If anyone has any other ideas for what one might do, hit me up!

I can easily follow you. The market for used jazz guitars is the same here in Denmark - almost not existent and dealers mostly ignorant about jazz guitars. I have given it up completely. The very few used jazz guitars seen here are shamelessly expensive, especially considering they are more often than not in a lousy condition. The $600 seems to be a low price here in Europe. But then there's the uncertaincy with the truss rod. Personally, I would like to check that particular guitar before money changed hands. If it's OK, you'll get a fine instrument for a very reasonable price, even if you have to have it refretted. These old Ibanez "lawsuit" guitars are great instruments and if this one is still in good shape after more than 40 years, it can last for the rest of your life. I gave them more than a close look back in the 1970s but ended up buying a used Gibson 175 which I still have to this day.

I have ordered US luthier built guitars a couple of times in later years and imported them myself which is not a big hassle. One just have to add shipping, customs and VAT to the price the US dealer quotes to get an idea of the final cost.

I figure if I was in the market for a new factory made jazz guitar, I'd hop in the car and drive to Thomann's showroom near Munich to check out their inventory - and make a holiday trip out of it while being there. Of course that's only possible because my wife and I are retired now. BTW, that would be an L5 - these days it's the only guitar which still triggers my GAS as I'm happy with what I already have by now).

cmajor9 suggested searching in EU countries as well. I realize that Norway is not a member of the EU but there may be some " association" agreements between Norway and the EU which levels out some of the added import costs when buying from a EU country. You'll know this better than I do. But it's worth to check out. Just don't count on finding something in Denmark ....

**IbanezAS100** · 09-13-2015, 06:43 AM

I don't think anyone can convince you for or against buying this guitar, as everyone's priorities and personal situations are different. However, I would recommend not letting the limited availability of jazz guitars in Norway become the deciding factor. If you had played the guitar and had been blown away it would obviously be a different story (and you wouldn't be posting here). I appreciate that you want an inspiring instrument but maybe an arguably less inspiring workhorse is a safer option for a hard working player with a limited budget.

I like vintage Ibanez guitars too (as my forum name suggests) but how about getting a new Ibanez AKJ95, AFJ91 or AG95 (all of which are similar money) from Thomann with warranty and money-back guarantee? All of these are in my experience perfectly serviceable instruments that play well out of the box (search the forum for opinions). Play the hell out of one of these and when you're ready to upgrade, a weekend of guitar tasting in Europe could well be in order (tiptop in Sweden, jazzisten in Denmark, various shops in the UK, Holland and Germany have a good variety of archtops) and you could find your 'holy grail'.

Best of luck!

Edit: cmajor9 and oldane were typing faster than me. Good call on import taxes

**jazzbow** · 09-13-2015, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Franz 1997

It could be the seller thinks the worn frets are the big issue ( and they are, if you are in London and paying £300 for a refret..!!) and is otherwise ignorant.

Wow, £300 for a refret!

Remeber you can go as low as .025" for fret height before re-frets

Marwin, it's a shame we're no closer as I would re-fret for ya.

**mr quick** · 09-13-2015, 09:15 AM

Thank you all for your advice. Norway is not in the EU so it would be cheaper as suggested by some to drive around europe in search for a blow-me-away guitar. I got another response:

"Hello, for hobby use it's fine. If however, one is an active player and playability matters, I would have gotten a refret and a nut change."

I'll ask my luthier about it.

**mr quick** · 09-13-2015, 02:53 PM

Luthier got back to me, we're talking $300 for the refret and nut change. I've asked for more pictures, perhaps it is not that bad? I'll upload the pictures here

Does anyone know what kind of neck profile we're talking about here? I'm not that crazy about my AF 75's neck any more, because I'm totally in love with the neck on my ES-139.

**mr quick** · 09-13-2015, 03:03 PM

Nevermind, the guitar just got sold an hour ago!

**Ryo17** · 04-18-2019, 06:50 PM

I stumbled across a used 1973 Ibanez 2355 (Pre Lawsuit ES-175) archtop guitar for $850 (HARD CASE INCLUDED). This guitar is in mint condition and has a TOM bridge. I am looking for an archtop guitar under 1000. Is this a good deal?