Gibson Custom Crimson Division?

[louisguitar]

Hi all,
I would like to know what do you think about this "new" Gibson production compared to the classic "old" Custom Shop.

Thanks

[Bluedawg]

I'm not convinced it's really any different than what Gibson has been producing over the last 25 years in their Historic archtop line .....

I do think Gibson's high end archtops have been good to excellent since the early 90s and the Crimson stuff I've seen is very good


Their prices are pretty hard for me to defend .... but they've always been on the high side for their archtop guitars

[fumblefingers]

i have 3 of 'em. they're all beautiful, and they're all keepers.

[Jabberwocky]

It's been around since about 2012 when Mike McGuire retired and handed the reins over to Phillip Whorton. Each Custom Shop supervisor put his own stamp on the choice of curly maple used for the back and rim. Under Phillip Whorton, the degree of curl has looked "wilder" with more mineral flecks and rings, marks who would have been considered defects way back when but are highly valued today. The backs are also less bookmatched symmetric. That is a matter of style. More adventurous; no good or bad in it.

The Sunburst spray pattern has changed. It is a lot darker and heavier than it was under Jim Hutchins. None of that dark iced tea tone but a solid black before graduating into mahogany brown and then amber. The Naturals show a lot more white from the shop. No ageing toner.

I like the finish and choice of curly maple under James Hutchins' watch the most. Mike McGuire carried on mostly where James Hutchins left off. The Crimson Divison was introduced by Mike McGuire shortly before he retired. Phillip Whorton is putting his own stamp on it today. I'm mostly a cynical curmudgeon but not cynical enough to believe that Phillip Whorton used whatever maple was lying around in the Custom Shop. I believe it was by choice. Those bales of maple also ended up on the tops of Les Paul 1959 and 1958 Historics from 2013 and 2014, by the way.

James R. Culbertson signs off on most of the archtops built at the Gibson Custom Shop. The Archtop Crimson Division is in good hands. It is the same old same old Gibson Archtop Department, if that's what you are asking.

I won't hesitate to buy one from the Crimson Division, if I am in the market for another. It's all good at the Gibson Custom Shop.

If you're looking for a new Gibson archtop, my ports of call would be Dave's Guitars, Rainbow Music, Wildwood Guitars, The Music Zoo, Eddie's Guitars, Wilcutt's Guitars. As for the prices you should be payin', I ain't tellin'.

[jads57]

As stated above, aside from the high prices I think Gibson is producing some of the finest archtops they've ever made!

[Max405]

Jabs, that was an amazing response. Your opinion is spot on dude.
I think some of the mynewt details are lacking a little bit in the Custom Crimson realm, such as finish around the binding of the neck and under the cantilever. But for the most part they are making extraordinary guitars and they have maintained that Gibson feel rather seamlessly. Tough thing to do when you change the guard. I think the fit and finish of my 2011 L5 is better than on my previous 2014 L5, but both Guitars are very similar how they feel. They've maintained that, "jeeze, I don't think you can buy a more solid guitar" factor. They are commending in your hands. They don't feel cheap. The magic is still there.

Joe D.

[helios]

Jabber strikes again with archtop acumen!

[fumblefingers]

Jabber impressed me whether it's all true or not, it all sounded good, lol. I must say that I have a strong preference for book matched, knock your eyes out woods. My last Legrand was purchased last year and has great figuring. I really like to see a hint of a great back on the sides as well.

Phillip worked with me on my Citation, and in my humble opinion it turned out extraordinarily well. I've seen a few Citations that are more impressive than mine, but more that aren't. IMO of course.

[vinnyv1k]

Another thing you find on the Crimsons are the red eye fret markers like on your old 2014 L5 Joe. I also have the red eyes on my 2014 Brydland. They are actually kind of cool. They can go from black to bright red depending on how light hits them.

[Max405]

Another thing you find on the Crimsons are the red eye fret markers like on your old 2014 L5 Joe. I also have the red eyes on my 2014 Brydland. They are actually kind of cool. They can go from black to bright red depending on how light hits them.

Vinny you are right. I miss those. Do you have that on Marylyn? That would cool on a blonde. Was that also on the Tal?

[vinnyv1k]

No Joe Marilyn has black dots but it is a 2010 also my 2014 Viceroy brown Tal has black dots as well as as my 2014 L4. I think they just use those Crimson red eyes on L5's, Brydlands, and Super 400 / multi ply neck binding models or that is my guess. I remember in the 70's I saw a new Johnny Smith with abalone fret dots that was very cool too.

[Bluedawg]

I guess one thing that I have seen that's different is a wider selection of variations on the L5 choices out there...


First there's more L5 acoustics and the floating pup version ...

and there were also a few with P-90s ... including a Wes Montgomery

The P-90 versions seem to have been sold off ... but there's stlil a ton of new L5 acoustics and floaters out there on the internet

[QAman]

I spent several hours at Music Zoo on 10/28/15 playing a Citation , 2 LeGrands and all the 2014 / 2015 L5's (acoustic versions only) and I must say I was very impressed with build quality. I have collected high end Vintage and Boutique guitars for over 35 years and I believe all is well with Gibson Custom shop. We all have our preferences and comparisons with guitars of the past - but I believe these new Gibson's will stand the test of time and they seem to hold their value compared to other brands.

I was quite surprised to see that Gibson uses Tune O Matic saddles across the Archtop line - but I must say it does impart a lovely lush sustain , .....but also adds a slight nasally character to the note - it's sort of a trade off - but I found myself loving the warmth and sustain.

All the guitars were much heavier than I expected and the LeGrands were a little more focused and very Johnny Smith sounding.

The Citation and L5's basically sounded quite similar - deeper body with depth and warmth - but a definite variation in sound quality between the bunch.- with no correlation to price .

While most were very good sounding a couple were extraordinary -loud resonant and responsive with a rich thick creamy tone .

The real lesson learned - if your in the market for one of these - try to find a store with several in stock to play.

Just thought I'd share my experience with all of you.

[Groyniad]

i've just had precisely the same sort of experience with precisely the same range of instruments.

i'm a convert to the metal bridge (and saddles even).

glad to hear that someone with your experience was impressed in the same way i was. it convinced me that getting a new one was the way to go - which i've never done before and never expected to do.

i must say that the four L-5s i've tried were ALL fantastic - even if some were slightly more giving than others, it seemed to me that they would loosen up quite quickly if treated appropriately.

[QAman]

Groyniad,
These were very impressive instruments and I loved the lush warmth of the TOM saddle and the perfect intonation. I also think the additional body weight adds to the sustain in a very beneficial way.
I would not hesitate for a minute to buy a new Gibson Custom shop Archtop- these are sure to be our future collectibles- especially in light of new press formed tops which may gain some traction - but will never replace the dynamics of a carved top.
There may be a NGD for me in the not too distant future.

[fumblefingers]

two of my guitars from Crimson. does it look like somebody is a sucker for honeyburst? i play that Le Grand every day....

[QAman]

Awesome looking instruments. I also have a 1998 LeGrand that gets played regularly . Thanks for sharing - the Citation is stunning.

[vinnyv1k]

Wow !

[Dedalus]

Thanks for sharing - the Citation is stunning.

+1

[fumblefingers]

thanks guys. Steve i really like that sunburst shade and the book-matched straight flamed figuring on your Le Grand! I have two Le Grands and think that they're great. great low action, easy feel and string tension. nice weight and tone etc.

[QAman]

thanks guys. Steve i really like that sunburst shade and the book-matched straight flamed figuring on your Le Grand! I have two Le Grands and think that they're great. great low action, easy feel and string tension. nice weight and tone etc.

Yes- I agree entirely . The scale length is 25-3/8 and is a little easier on the fingers then 25-1/2. I have action set around .050 / .070 and it plays like butter. I also use Newtone 12-52's PB with the round core to reduce string tension. Many years ago I had all my guitars strung with 13 hex cores but just can't handle the heavy strings anymore. I wish Gibson would incorporate more honeyburst / almond burst finishes because that is my favorite as well. Your Citation is breathtaking - the nicest I have ever seen.

Thanks for your nice comments - stay well.

Steve L

[nickyboy]

I have a 2010 Le Grand - blonde and it love it.
The back of you Citation is incredible. Just wonderful!

two of my guitars from Crimson. does it look like somebody is a sucker for honeyburst? i play that Le Grand every day....

[nickyboy]

I've been using Thomastik flats on my Le Grand. I've avoided roundwound thinking it may make it too bright. How are you getting on with roundwounds on your Le Grand?

Yes- I agree entirely . The scale length is 25-3/8 and is a little easier on the fingers then 25-1/2. I have action set around .050 / .070 and it plays like butter. I also use Newtone 12-52's PB with the round core to reduce string tension. Many years ago I had all my guitars strung with 13 hex cores but just can't handle the heavy strings anymore. I wish Gibson would incorporate more honeyburst / almond burst finishes because that is my favorite as well. Your Citation is breathtaking - the nicest I have ever seen.

Thanks for your nice comments - stay well.

Steve L

[nickyboy]

Here's a quick phone-cam snap of my crimson-crimson L5:


Any idea of whose signature this is?

[vinlander]

Could be James D. Culberson maybe