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Thanks, there's not much to tell about these large-body thinline Langs!
The purpose was simple - it was plainly stolen from the master himself: making great sounding acoustic archtops with the best possible playability. Period. No vintage craze and no retropian dream - a term I like to use for people with a certain backward-looking mind-set of utopia in the past.
These guitars are made from newer material and some leftover NOS Lang parts. The new parts are where the problem of "telling more and showing off" starts. I mentioned it here some years ago: somebody (not related to the Lang family) acquired by German patent law the trademark "Artur Lang" in relation to musical instruments, plus the Lang logo "LA" next to the upright quarter note. So it could be doubtful to spread out these terms in public without permission of the actual holder of rights.
Of course, it is legal to illustrate fotos of original Lang guitars or guitar parts, name etc., up to the date when the new holder acquired the rights (a couple of years ago, when I changed my avatar here). My pics show hardware coming originally from Lang's time or that were acquired long ago.
The "silverhead" of the guitar above, for example, is an original "flowers and braid" motif from a former original Lang guitar (the earth laughs in flowers - thanks again, HR!). It's easy to verify, since they don't engrave like that anymore. Due to possible legal complexities it's not wise to reveal more about these guitars.
Eagle eyes may detect some peculiar features around the headstock of the guitar above - well, let's see if there are any here around:
After Lang's death some folks sniffed a chance of making someting meaningful with leftover wooden guitar parts, those who knew how great and balanced sounding Lang guitars are. Lang's spruce and maple plates plates had been carefully and, IMHO, compared to what I've been experiencing in my life, amazingly uniformly copy-routed, talking of machines between the 1950s and early 1970s, by Lang's brother-in-law, Otto Fuchs, and later, Fuchs' son, in the Breitenau.
A former neighbour of Lang, the father of Christian Lederer, both guitarists, brokered the sale of some original plates. Theo Scharpach (Netherlands) was one client of that deal in 1985. Since Lang had been sort of the archtop guitar makers' guitar maker in germanophone countries, a number of other guitar manufacturies and makers were interested in building in the Lang style, resp. what they thought would be the Lang style, even in the commercially quite isolated German Democratic Republic.
In the local Garmisch/Mittenwald region Rauschmayr was one of them, though he pointed out that he never used any Lang parts after Lang's death.
Adi Feil (RIP), former luthier at Roger and operator of the 'Musikstüberl' in Traunstein told the story about the violin maker and entrepreneur Hollenbach who had started to assemble Lang "copies" between around 1978 and 1980; it is not known whether Hollenbach made some examples himself (IMO, probably not) or if other parties were involved. That Bavarian region had been full of small workshop violin and guitar makers, whose names and work are long forgotten. All involved persons and contemporary witnesses passed. Fact is that Hollenbach got Lang plates with the intention to manufacture guitars in the Lang style.
Also, it is not fully clear, if Hollenbach got one or two old parts from the former Lang's workshop as well, or if he exclusively contacted nearby Otto Fuchs and son who then provided some more Lang plates to Hollenbach. All these are side issues to me. Visually, the Lang-Hollenbach plates offer at least the same quality as plates that Theo Scharpach is using up (for his X-braced guitars), i.e., they can show minor imperfections, totally irrelevant for sound and structure.
Adi Feil's had been designated to sell these Hollenbach-Lang guitars, and in his memory the judgment about the quality of the Hollenbach archtop guitars was crushing: blasphemy against the revered master! Of course, in addition, the late 1970s and early 1980s were not known for the general acknowledgement of carved archtop guitars. Eventually, after Hollenbach's death in 2008 some Lang plates ended up at Michael Compernass ... the rest is known.
Many have tried to get to the truth of Lang's principles, but just the silverhead, split soundholes and fancy-looking "side bumpers" don't get the gist of a Lang guitar. Out of frustration, some of these initial Lang followers turned to the funny, though well-known human reaction: if I can't get that cake ... well, uh, ... Lang guitars must simply be overrated.
It is commonly known that thinline guitars show a higher main-air-resonance frequency compared to their full-depth siblings, though on most archtop guitars the effect seems to be smaller than on flat-top guitars. More often than not, that higher 'Helmholtz-resonance' shift results in less bass and lower midrange response. Why these large-body thinline Langs don't seem to be subject to these physical conditions, at least not to the expected extent, still needs to be clarified.
Just for visual comparison to the thinline, here a regular large-body Lang Super:
Last edited by Ol' Fret; 12-13-2022 at 04:56 PM.
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12-12-2022 02:20 PM
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I'm a fan of old Lang guitars and have a few. They sound great.
As far as old Lang plates go, I'm a little more straightforward in my interpretation of all this. Fuchs supplied plates to Lang. There was a pile of unfinished top and back plates left over after Lang died. They were sold off and ended up with various people - Hollenbach, Scharpach, Compernass, and so forth. I have a few sets.
If Rauschenbach made any Lang-style guitars, where are they? Pix, please.
If, according to Adi Feil, Hollenbach started to make Lang ‘copies’ and Adi sold these guitars, where are they? Pix, please.
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As far as trademark law goes, some clarification is needed:
“So it could be doubtful to spread out these terms in public without permission of the actual holder of rights.” Actually, you don’t need any permission to spread these terms in public. The current holder of the trademark has no say in this.
“Of course, it is legal to illustrate fotos of original Lang guitars or guitar parts, name etc., up to the date when the new holder acquired the rights (a couple of years ago, when I changed my avatar here).” Actually, you can show pix of orginal parts and guitars until the end of time without limitation. The current holder of the trademark has no say in this.
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As far as the sound quality goes, it’s pretty simple - a talented experienced builder using sets of original plates can make make guitars that sound as good as old Langs. There is no magic, just skill and talent.
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>> There was a pile of unfinished top and back plates left over after Lang died. <<
Sure, but that pile was small, not more than some dozen plates. We have to consider: at the end of the 1960s the German archtop guitar market dropped sharply, also affecting Lang's output. Lang was even forced to make again classical and special old shapes like Wappengitarren. In addition, Lang's health (heart) condition got severe, which forced him to change his workflow considerably - just study his Super De Luxe models after 1970. HR gives an estimated total number of 56 Lang instruments between 1970 and 1974. Some, if not many, guitars emerging after c.1972 came into life by health-forced simplifying and "outsourcing" like the full finishing procedure, at plants like Winter in Ohlstadt or Ostertag, or wherever.
What I like to demonstrate: after c. 1970 Lang knew about the declining market for archtop guitars and his worsening health condition, and it is very likely that he had soon stopped piling up precious tonewoods like seasoned Alpine spruce and European maple. He also knew that his offspring didn't want to have anything to do with musical instrument making.
>> If Rauschenbach made any Lang-style guitars, where are they? Pix, please. >>
My fault, sorry! I was talking of Erich Rauschmayr, not Rauschenbach. Rauschmayr's Lang-style guitars.
>> If, according to Adi Feil, Hollenbach started to make Lang ‘copies’ and Adi sold these guitars, where are they? Pix, please. <<
These Lang copies were a total flop. It is not known how many Hollenbach-Lang examples were made or if any have survived. According to HR who interviewed him (many years ago), Adi Feil said he had to reject these guitars. Feil is known to have been one of the most reliable witnesses of Bavarian guitar making. Guys like him would rather die than fooling people just to make their own work look better.
HR stated it this way: The project failed because the instruments did not correspond to the level of the original in terms of workmanship and sound. Well, you see, if you have original plates, the skills, maybe even some talent: you could still fail. Up to this day Lang copy-cats are prone to fail, probably including the guitars mentioned here.
Talent is always desirable. How to wake it if your talent is latent? The best of my former violin and guitar teachers always stated: Talent is about 5 percent, the rest is diligence. How right they were, about every human endeavor!
@ the trademark and patent complexities:
Some European friends of mine have been working at the European Patent Office headquarters in Munich. I've listened to a huge pile of really weird, sometimes hair-rising criminal patent litigations. This and my own limited experience with lawsuits, some big-names ... No, thank you, not my world, I'm not anymore going to waste one second of my life in lawyers, liars, tribunals, and patent criminals! I prefer to stand around small piles of wood, enjoy its metamorphosis, together with others, looking forward to the music that will come from it, enjoying others.
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[QUOTE=Ol' Fret;1236408]Thanks, there's not much to tell about these large-body thinline Langs!
The purpose was simple - it was plainly stolen from the master himself: making great sounding acoustic archtops with the best possible playability. Period. No vintage craze and no retropian dream - a term I like to use for people with a certain backward-looking mind-set of utopia in the past.
These guitars are made from newer material and some leftover NOS Lang parts. The new parts are where the problem of "telling more and showing off" starts. I mentioned it here some years ago: somebody (not related to the Lang family) acquired by German patent law the trademark "Artur Lang" in relation to musical instruments, plus the Lang logo "LA" next to the upright quarter note. So it could be doubtful to spread out these terms in public without permission of the actual holder of rights.
Of course, it is legal to illustrate fotos of original Lang guitars or guitar parts, name etc., up to the date when the new holder acquired the rights (a couple of years ago, when I changed my avatar here). My pics show hardware coming originally from Lang's time or that were acquired long ago.
The "silverhead" of the guitar above, for example, is an original "flowers and braid" motif from a former original Lang guitar (the earth laughs in flowers - thanks again, HR!). It's easy to verify, since they don't engrave like that anymore. Due to possible legal complexities it's not wise to reveal more about these guitars.
Eagle eyes may detect some peculiar features around the headstock of the guitar above - well, let's see if there are any here around:
That trussrod cover seems to be out of place - except on a modern build maybe ?
Is this thinline model a one-off / custom order ? I wonder how the low notes sound on this guitar ....
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[QUOTE=gitman;1236536]
Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
Yes, don't be disheartened - some peculiarities of Lang and Lang-style guitars are not easy to spot!
I'll try to give a short answer tomorrow.
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Well, the obvious tells are the TRC and the bushings for the tuner posts.
The string spacer has been changed on mine. I suppose the gap at the base of the metal plate is worth noting as well.
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Originally Posted by Hammertone
OK. Compernass originally offered the following @2006-2007: Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
-Hollenbach - cutaway top plates - 46
-Hollenbach - cutaway back plates - 53
-Hollenbach - non-cutaway top plates - 4
-Hollenbach - non-cutaway back plates - 4
My guess is that these plates came from Fuchs and were originally intended for Lang. After acquiring a few sample sets, I tried to acquire more, but Compernass refused to sell me more unless I purchased complete instruments. I was able to negotiate that down to white bodies without necks, but the samples I received were terrible (made by Anton Sandner, according to Compernass). They looked like they were made by a drunken fool.
Originally Posted by Hammertone
OK, I found some in Rittinger's article. I see a few Lang design cues mixed in with his own ideas on the Grandess models. Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
Originally Posted by Hammertone
OK. Where are they? Pix, please. I’ll go out on a limb here and guess that only one or two were made, if that, and it’s most likely that none exist today. Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
Lang copy-cat guitars? A few old Glassl instruments are definitely copy-cat guitars. The old Alosa, Neubauer, Rod Hoyer or East German versions with segmented sound holes borrow a few visual design cues here and there, but not much else, IMO.[/QUOTE] Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
I’m with you, brother! Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
Last edited by Hammertone; 12-14-2022 at 02:16 AM.
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Doc: For some reason, I did not find any Rod. Hoyer guitars in HR's Lang article. Rod's shop made a few Broadway, Solo and Staccato models that clearly owe a lot to Artur Lang. Feel to give him the photo of my Broadway. I'll post more.
Last edited by Hammertone; 12-14-2022 at 03:40 AM.
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Lang copies are still around...
Artur Lang "ALOSA" Replique Jazzgitarre Archtop , 17 Zoll in Bonn - Hardtberg | eBay Kleinanzeigen
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My Rod Hoyer Solist indeed owes a lot to Lang, even down to the red binding that more than a few Langs sport. Obviously it has some very personal touches, like the multi piece neck.
Rod Hoyer apparently also used that cathedral wood Lang famously used.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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>> OK. Compernass originally offered the following @2006-2007:
-Hollenbach - cutaway top plates - 46
-Hollenbach - cutaway back plates - 53
-Hollenbach - non-cutaway top plates - 4
-Hollenbach - non-cutaway back plates - 4
My guess is that these plates came from Fuchs and were originally intended for Lang. After acquiring a few sample sets, I tried to acquire more, but Compernass refused to sell me more unless I purchased complete instruments. I was able to negotiate that down to white bodies without necks, but the samples I received were terrible (made by Anton Sandner, according to Compernass). They looked like they were made by a drunken fool. >>
Hammertone, good man, for heaven's sake! For years it has been one of my concerns when looking at numbers presented on the internet, reports, self-marketing, etc., to let the critical and skeptical mind prevail. I doubt 1. that all of these Hollenbach records were real and/or intended for becoming Lang-style guitars (the noncutaway parts weren't anyway), 2. that all of them were of a higher or at least well usable quality.
Years ago, we already corresponded on your bad experiences. I see your emotional reaction on this topic, and I feel for you, since what happened was in no way acceptable. All the more so when dealing with someone who, abroad, hardly has a chance of showing up directly with those responsible. Since Stradivari, the musical instrument making business is a shark pool, there are always exceptions. Meanwhile, I've made more own experiences, and some of them were annoying as well. People simply are what they are: greedy, decent, competent, ignorant, arrogant, or a mix of all. They can't be changed by others, can only change themselves, and this does usually happen only under correspondingly seriously affecting conditions.
Would you like to get an example? Well, think, you ordered a specific split soundhole Lang "equivalent". Lang had experimented quite a bit with the shape and dimensions of these four-parts soundholes. You take a special pattern from the original, and, after hours of work, you're going to position and mark them on the original plate. And then you get this white body back as a whole:
Good heavens! On the closed guitar body, you have to reinvent these soundholes, bringing them to a shape that is somewhat looking like real Lang soundholes; then attach a smooth triple binding black-white-tortoise on this curvy top. A crazy job, probably even for a seasoned guitar maker. Well, I had to do it myself. It was a pain, but doable. No pain no gain, and if something is worth to be done, it is worth to be well done. I'm trying to do all the work myself from now on.
The same mess could happen - and, believe me, all happened in the past - if you ordered Lang-shaped tonebars. Lang used sophisticated cello-style bars, not some rough wooden beams that are found in the vast majority of archtop guitars. Or you were looking for a full-length Lang neck, (no inserted neck extension, just the neck heel separated). Or a decent Lang-style purfling. A finish that meets the requirement of a Lang, since Lang was aware of how much the sound is influenced by the instrument finish? No such luck!
Then, you have to think about what represents the essence of a Lang guitar. What makes a Lang a Lang? A 100 percent replica? Almost not feasible. Just the looks? Too little, will probably completely lack the sound. So, you'll get a mix between these two extreme poles. The most important thing is not just to strictly copy (even this seems hard enough to do for many), but to understand Lang's work, the design evolution, his wood work, special acoustic considerations, the finish procedure etc.. The only way to get to the Lang gist is to inspect and/or work on as many original Lang guitars as possible, an extremely troublesome and expensive procedure over many, many years. No one of the former Lang guitar competitors and followers had been able to achieve that, the only possible exception was Gustav Glassl, back then definitely one of the most ardent Lang admirers.
Hammertone, how about getting your white guitar bodies ready for correction, pull off that messy binding work, etc., and fix them! It will be a long pain when you do it yourself. Of course, you could instruct and hire a trustworthy luthier for that job as well, but you know that a really good job can't be paid cheap - justifiably!
>> My guess is that these plates came from Fuchs and were originally intended for Lang <<
All the Lang plates (except the very first ones and the master plates) were supplied by Otto Fuchs. Fuchs was Lang's brother-in-law, Lang's wife Adele's brother. Adele was related to the Kollitz tonewood people, so the wood connection was always there. Fuchs' day job had been a railroad employee, but he's said to have been a good guitarist as well, had many local music connections, and he was very close with the Langs. Fuchs lived upstairs in the same semi-detached building, did much of Lang's paperwork and (minimal) promotion, was obviously a personal adviser, giving strong feedback to Lang's work.
Lang died in 1975. It is hardly imaginable, in respect to the declining archtop guitar market and Lang's severe health condition after 1970 that such a close relative, living in the same space, should have supplied plates in stock to the same extent like in the 1960s, as if nothing had changed. Anyway, as far as I can tell, all these plates show roughly the same quality like Scharpach's ones who got them through the Lederers from Lang's workshop around 1985. The exact ways of the plates are more or less incidental to me.
Last edited by Ol' Fret; 12-14-2022 at 08:09 AM.
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Why - do I misunderstand what the original plate is? Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
Was he originally a bowed instrument maker, as I understand was often the case for the post-war German guitar builders?The same mess could happen - and, believe me, all has happened - if you order Lang-shaped tonebars. Lang used sophisticated cello-style bars, not some rough wooden beams that are found in the vast majority of archtop guitars.
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Originally Posted by RJVB
RJVB, this is about an original Lang top (and back) plate. Imagine you ordered a costly Stradivari copy, and what you get back is a copy with soundholes that are in no way reminiscent of Stradivari soundholes. Just what the luthier thought would be Stradivari soundholes - despite your foolproof instruction, ahem, or what you thought would be foolproof.
Quite a couple of years ago, I've seen an offer for one Lang set (precarved top and back) going for c. Euro 1000; so it's only feasible for snobs and hacks to put the botched original into the garbage can, and get started with a new (not vintage) top plate.
If you're talking about Artur Lang: he studied at the Schönbach Musikinstrumentenbau-Schule, then, IMHO, by far the most leading and advanced school. Of course, the base had been violin making procedures, but they had special training for guitar making also. In comparison, IIRC, the renowned Mittenwald School got it's guitar maker courses not before the early 1970s or so.
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Doc, I see that you had a similar experience, ha! More to come about this adventure later, with pix as well.
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Mishaps adventures are welcome, but, please, keep it humane! Originally Posted by Hammertone
Since your white Lang bodies seem to be actually worthless, and nobody knows about in North America, I suggest you to send me these little pests. I'll pay the shipping - and you'll feel a lot better once you get rid of those problems.
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Some nice Lang-style guitars here around! Yes, the father of Rod Hoyer, Anton Hoyer, was one teacher of Lang in Schönbach. Anton's postwar models look a bit old-fashioned, but were built meticulously. Unfortunately, he died relatively soon after their forced displacement. Rod's archtops look more modern, and the man could build as well. I own a special large-body Rod (>44cm) with that semicircular internal wooden "resonator". It's not or not much louder than the other Rods, but has a very refined and balanced sound - I like it! Unfortunately, Rod got into some sort of price trap, since most (all?) of his guitars were distributed by the Musikhaus Lindberg in Munich - which slowly affected the guitar quality.
That red purfling center stripe was a typical early Lang development. Not only Rod Hoyer used it later , but also Glassl and Höfner.
Beware: it only contributes to a brillant sound, if it originated - like Lang's red material - from the Hubert Sohler Company in Wangen/Allgäu Alps. They made wooden prefab houses, but started to produce skis as well in the early 1950s. These skis got world-famous in the 1950s and 60s; world championships and FIS races have been won on these skis (made of metall and synthetic materials) and speed world records have been set.
So, if your red-purfled ax doesn't vibrate like a snow cannon - I'm fully convinced - then that material cannot come from the former Sohler ski production.
Here two pics of Rauschmayr Lang-style guitars. I've seen some more ... not on my machine here:
Lang copies by Hollenbach - sorry, no single pic! I've already supposed that not many were made or have survived, but Adi Feil reported about.
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Back to the now three existing thinline large-body Lang examples. These are new models, two Supers and one Super De Luxe (SDL), i.e., it has Lang's longer f-holes (some of the late SDLs and the small-body guitars show similar, but shorter f-soundholes). Each one shares a set of old/original plates. One has an old Lang neck, the rest has new ones. Similar, the hardware is a mix of old and new, except the tuners which are all new. The model pictured above has an original headstock plate and an older tailpiece.
Acoustically - and this is where these thin Lang guitars are amazingly shining - they sound quite similar. As with the corresponding full-hollow body Super and SDL models, the f-soundholes make the guitar sound a tad more round or creamy in the bass and lower midrange, due to the fact that the top was cut over a long distance and is less stiff - the differences are small, of course, depending on the wood selection also, but relatively constant. The Super models with split soundholes show a stiffer top, generally resulting in a tad more overall attack and upper midrange and trebles. Hard to describe, probably equally hard to hear on recordings with soso gadgets.
The most striking feature of these thinline guitars (side depth reduced to roughly 60 percent) is that the difference to the 100 percent guitars is really minimal. This in every respect, volume and sound. This was not expected, and players and builders are encouraged to experiment more around such thinline archtop guitars. Despite their large body width they are ultra-comfy to play - some guitarists have expressed interest (well, for my part it's all non-commercial pastime).
The necks are great also, the pictured model has a neck taper of 45mm (at zero fret) to 56mm (at 22nd), a smooth flat-oval shape with some meat, and Wagner jumbo frets (the manufacturer for Jescar). Lang strictly preferred less taper (seen from above, i.e. the fretboard) no matter how wide the nut was (difference 8 to 9mm), because he knew the strong physical fact against the using of a wide taper for acoustic instruments. One more advantage of "small-taper necks": the hand and finger position is almost the same throughout the whole fingerboard; at least, in theory, these necks support faster playing. Players, when used to fret small-taper necks, feel unhappy about wider tapered necks.
Why Lang just finished a handful of such guitars, is obvious: many customers looked for thinline and semi guitars from US brands, and most of these guitars were not more than 16" wide or even smaller. So Lang had to make and offer these smaller sizes in the late 1960s and early 1970s - these wonderful large-body thinlines were given-up simply due to lack of demand.Last edited by Ol' Fret; 12-14-2022 at 03:52 PM.
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@ 1: this was the last trial, will probably be my last guitar featuring an adjustable truss rod. I am aware there are some exceptions, but a fully bonded metal reinforcement - and I mean fully - is superior for acoustic instruments. The reason for this was explained some years ago here or there, and I don't feel myself to be alone in the vast guitar world with such a strong minority opinion. Of course, the neck has to be straight, strong and stiff. Adjustable truss words were invented for being able to use less stiff and stable neck woods, either cheaper or eye-striking looking ones, like one-piece flamed maple, etc.. Lang, a trained aircraft builder as well, was never convinced of adjustable truss rods. He used it very late in his working life, to customer specification, on what he regarded as electric guitars, usually the smaller thin archtops. The late SDLs, after 1970 or so, show all truss rods. I'm not even convinced that Lang provided this feature himself. Most of these guitars have two DeArmonds 2000, still can sound great, but the best period for Lang's work, IMO, were the late 1950s and the 1960s.
Yep, new TRC!
@ 2: This is an old original engraving plate. Some hack shortened the base of the nickel-silver towards the nut, here aka string spacer. Original Lang string spacers always overlap the plates around 1 to 2mm. Why the effort to make a snuggling slot at the base of the string spacer and push the plate into it? I'm open for discussion. Just for fixation? Well, the 9 little screws fix the plate very well, there's no rattling or anything else. In fact, that metal plate serves as reinforcement of the headstock; we all want a stiff guitar neck including the headstock, don't we? The plates were generally too long? Unthinkable for Lang; also, in that case he could simply have used smaller string spacers, these parts are never so stressed like the nuts on guitars without zero frets. No, it seems that Lang wanted that tight contact of the string spacer and the engraving plate, maybe for some acoustic reason.
The black little strip towards the string spacer here is simply made of plastic.
@ 3: this is a neck binding you'll only find on the new Super thinlines. There is a longer (problem) story about this feature, but it would be too much ...
@ 4: admittedly, this point was hard. Probably the same hack who shortened the metal plate drilled two little holes. No idea what for - some people like to drill unnecessary holes in metal or wood; we call them "Dünnbrettbohrer".
My suggestion was to close these holes with two little screws. HR knew it better: he prepared some suitable nickel-silver plugs on the lathe. No, not simple cylindrical pins; it had to become two taper pins fasteners used in mechanical engineering and clock making. A crazy, but ingenious guy, my friend HR ...
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Do you know why Lang preferred less taper for acoustic reasons? Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
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Did he? Originally Posted by supersoul
I can see one reason, if intonation counts as an acoustic reason: the bigger the taper, the bigger the length difference of the outer vs. the inner strings, requiring more compensation to get proper octaves.
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Yes, acoustically the connections are clear! Originally Posted by supersoul
Though some certainly wanted to contribute to a bon mot: the connections are clear, even if I don't know which connections.
The reason is easy to demonstrate in real life (could even be a enlightening moment for some guitarists), but could be potentially frustrating to summarize in a few words and in a online forum.
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Sounds like you have a good topic for your next YT video! Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
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I love Lang archtop guitars, but Lang archtop necks profiles are often far less than wonderful. The solution is easy enough, since he generally used standard neck blanks from the usual suppliers.
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You mean he didn't carve the necks on his guitars ???!!! Now THAT comes as a surprise , wow .... never even considered that possibility. But I'm with you re the neck shapes : while I generally don't have problems with slim necks I definitely prefer it when they get wider going up towards the joint. Originally Posted by Hammertone
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Originally Posted by Hammertone
HT, human brains are (generally, often?) standard as well, though I think you won't deny there are some small differences that can lead to hugely different outcomes in human life ... Your "easy solution" is striking: Cutting out the old fretted log, putting in a new one from the usual suppliers, done ... not a single consideration for Lang's acoustic efforts! The difference between your and Lang's personality could not be bigger at the moment. Come on, be serious!
While "overthinking" usually occurs when there's little productivity or creative drive, "oversimplyfing" occurs, uhm, under exactly the same conditions.
It is true: just some Lang archtop neck profiles are far less than wonderful from today's players' perspective (courses for horses: Lang was an early "custom maker"), but it is also true that most of his guitars necks, made after 1957 or so, rank among the best necks made up to this day, not only in Germany.
It is not just incidental that Lang started to make his own unique-styled necks in the early 1950s. These necks had contributed to his early fame, underhandedly, among the players and few distributors. Lang made archtop guitar necks, in the rough, of course, for some befriended makers like Gustav Glassl, right into the 1960s. Glassl was more than a capable "box maker" (both carved and laminated instruments), but he hardly ever cared about using great selfmade necks.
Lang made exceptionally wonderful bodies and necks throughout his working life. He experimented until he had convinced himself that the details were top-of-the range - then kept on to his scheme with the utmost care. The pursuit of optimal acoustic sound and the best possible handling was always his most important concern.
Just study HR's phenomenal work, for example, KAPITEL 04 KOMPONENTEN UND IHRE SPEZIFIKATIONEN – Artur Lang Gitarren (schlaggitarren.de) .
If we only narrow down to the large-body models (Standard, Super, Super De Luxe), we see that Lang used three neck profiles: oval, flat-oval and D-shaped, i.e., the latter with more "meat" at the neck shoulders. The neck thickness oscillated around 21.5mm (measured at the 1st fret) and 24.5mm (11th fret). The neck width of these models, made between c. 1956 and c. 1972, is given by HR to be between 43mm and 45mm (measured at the zero fret).
All of my own original models show a neck width between 44mm and 45,5mm, flat-oval profiles, a fretboard radius of c. 9.5" to 10" and a superior stiffness. The necks contribute to the acoustic tone that Lang was after - and this is what a minor, though slowly growing group of players is actually rediscovering.
There are no secrets in violin or guitar making, just people with varying knowledge, sensivity and skills, but these variations are huge. Unfortunately, the law applies that the lower the knowledge, the more people are prone to "urban guitar myths".
I see myself as a myth fighter. Well, I know the internet is not the right medium for evidence-based, subject-related discussion. Since HR has given such a wonderful website on Artur Lang and his work, scrutinized personally about 140 Lang guitars, collected about 20000, or so, measuring points (don't tie me down to exact numbers, but I've seen c. 18000 on his lists myself!), used analytic brains and skills that are out of many other restorers' class. .. Well, HR pointed it all out, including hat guitar neck taper topic. The article is a condensed treasure chest, just that the facts are not served on a silver platter.
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