Played an Ibanez AF-200 yesterday

**jzucker** · 04-18-2015, 10:14 PM

It was not very good. Played great but very bright and shrill sounding. It was setup with Thomastik .012 flats which are duller than d'addario chromes or roundwounds so I can only imagine how bright it would be with other strings on it. Did not play or sound like a $2200 instrument. Very glad I didn't buy one based on all the glowing accolades I read here the other day.

I think the lesson learned is that you can get guitar fever by reading all the high fives and praise heaped on instruments and you really need to play some of these yourself and not just take the recommendations of the chat forums.

**rio** · 04-19-2015, 12:08 AM

I can't get into the look of that guitar for some reason.

**kris** · 04-19-2015, 12:41 AM

+1

**jzucker** · 04-19-2015, 06:28 AM

i didn't have any problem with it's look. Just didn't sound good. Too many people are picking guitars based on (questionable) forum comments IMO. I think some of these long threads inspire guitar acquisition syndrome that are not deserved based on the actual instruments.

**kris** · 04-19-2015, 06:46 AM

It is not easy to find good instrument that you like for long time.I have same problem...

Dutchbopper · 04-19-2015, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

i didn't have any problem with it's look. Just didn't sound good. Too many people are picking guitars based on (questionable) forum comments IMO. I think some of these long threads inspire guitar acquisition syndrome that are not deserved based on the actual instruments.

Consumer behavior/psychology has stated for decades that people justify their own previous purchase decisions by rationalising in retrospect, even if their purchase is kind of disappointing. Thus, you get all kind of favourable reviews by owners raving about their guitars. It's called "post purchase rationalization."

In simple words, if you have just spent a few grand on a guitar, you are most likely to rave about it on the internet.

It's all here:

Post-purchase rationalization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jack is clearly an exception ...

DB

**Stringswinger** · 04-19-2015, 03:04 PM

i own a 1989 Ibanez AF-207 which is a Made in Japan 7 string archtop. It has a ceramic humbucker (single PUP in the exact placement as an ES175) made by Dimarzio and it sounds and plays great. Looks great too. If Ibanez made a 6 string version of my guitar, they would have a winner on their hands. The JP 20 was close, but had different specs (different pickup placement, different pickup maker and longer scale)

**Jabberwocky** · 04-19-2015, 03:26 PM

The certainty about post-purchase rationalisation is that one tends to do that while one is still holding onto the said object.

Clarity of thought is often only achieved after one no longer owns the said object. With nothing invested in it, there is no impediment to achieving pellucid rationality. Ownership leads to cloudy mind. Sorry, another gnomic utterance. In other words, don't piss into the water that you mean to drink out of.

Is that also not a marketing truth, Professor Dutchbopper? (I mean it with utmost respect as I know you are a professor at a university.)

Dutchbopper · 04-19-2015, 03:45 PM

Quite so, Jabberwocky. Especially reviews by current owners are suspicious ... It is not for nothing that Harmony central is loaded with favourable user reviews !!!!!

The more expensive the object is, the more post purchase rationalisation probably ...

DB

**newsense** · 04-19-2015, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Dutchbopper

Consumer behavior/psychology has stated for decades that people justify their own previous purchase decisions by rationalising in retrospect, even if their purchase is kind of disappointing. Thus, you get all kind of favourable reviews by owners raving about their guitars. It's called "post purchase rationalization."

In simple words, if you have just spent a few grand on a guitar, you are most likely to rave about it on the internet.

It's all here:

Post-purchase rationalization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jack is clearly an exception ...

DB

It must be true - the only explanation for why Honda consistently comes top of car owner satisfaction polls in the UK.

**wildschwein** · 04-19-2015, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by Dutchbopper

Consumer behavior/psychology has stated for decades that people justify their own previous purchase decisions by rationalising in retrospect, even if their purchase is kind of disappointing. Thus, you get all kind of favourable reviews by owners raving about their guitars. It's called "post purchase rationalization."

In simple words, if you have just spent a few grand on a guitar, you are most likely to rave about it on the internet.

It's all here:

Post-purchase rationalization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jack is clearly an exception ...

DB

Quite right. Consumption means nothing unless it is shared. I seem to be less picky than most (or I am an inverse version of the above and like bragging about my frugality) and still love my $500 Korean guitar over a multitude of other more expensive axes that I didn't take to, and consequently, no longer own.

**tallman** · 08-12-2015, 01:48 PM

Ibanez jazz guitars are not a patch on Yamaha guitars , having owned a Joe Pass and AF series. I rather think that they are taking a cheaper model (Balsa wood) artstar and finishing it off in Japan which is not to honest.

**rquattro** · 08-12-2015, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by tallman

Ibanez jazz guitars are not a patch on Yamaha guitars , having owned a Joe Pass and AF series. I rather think that they are taking a cheaper model (Balsa wood) artstar and finishing it off in Japan which is not to honest.

+1

**Archie** · 08-12-2015, 01:53 PM

It goes both ways Jack. You poured praise over your Eastmen Semi when I and my fiends thought it was meh.

So ummm lets not get too deep into throwing stones around in glass house ;-)

People have different tastes. You dont like the JP-20 I loved stand so do many. You dont like thin sounding archtops, some do.

For what its wroth, I would prefer the earlier 90's Af200's

Also I would massively disagree with you on your comment about d'addario chromes being brighter sounding than Thomastiks. I have not found this to be the case at all. Thomastics have a thinner core and thus sound more lively.

Japanese archtops are always quite bright new, you will find this with seventy sevens, Ibanez whatever you chose. You will also find this with new Gibson ES-175 VOS 59 models. However, what you do get over a decade or so is a rounding off (imo) of that brightness which then makes the guitar almost perfect. Unlike a dark bass heavy Gibson Es-175 that doesn't get brighter.

No one has ever recommended you a new one, people only talk about used ones or certainly I do. I think your making a straw man here.

**Para** · 08-12-2015, 05:20 PM

I have an AF200 one of the first out of the factory and there is nothing shrill sounding about it, in fact to me it sounds the opposite smooth and warm sounding

**Archie** · 08-13-2015, 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by Para

I have an AF200 one of the first out of the factory and there is nothing shrill sounding about it, in fact to me it sounds the opposite smooth and warm sounding

Well I'm sorry T, Jack said your guitar doesn't sound like that and that you must be under some illusion, based on reading other peoples good reviews.

;-)

Dutchbopper · 08-13-2015, 06:45 AM

Jack has a point though. Earlier in this thread I stated that especially owner's reviews are hardly reliable due to the psychological phenomenon called "post purchase rationalisation." Look it up.

You should never buy a guitar based on chat forum reviews.

I absolutely hate some of the guitars that receive glowing reviews here.

It goes even further. Do not rely on demo videos either. Many of the guys demoing vintage archtops for stores on Youtube can't play jazz and use wrong amps. So most of them sound pretty awful in their hands.

Yesterday I looked for a demo video of a Gibson Barney Kessel and in the ones I listened the BKs all sounded like shit. And I am sure it is NOT the guitar. I would sound very differently on them. Or at least I hope.

So you can't trust your eyes (reading reviews) and apparently not even your ears (listening to demo videos) in the virtual world. Better play one through your own amp. A lot of tone is in the fingers anyway.

DB

**floatingpickup** · 08-13-2015, 07:38 AM

Like Stringswinger, I also own an older Japanese AF-207. I agree that it is a really fine guitar and I have also wondered why they never made a six string version. I have had three JP-20's over the years and although the body on the JP-20 is nearly identical to the AF-207, the pickup location makes it sound quite different.
Keith

**BigMikeinNJ** · 08-13-2015, 08:57 AM

Jack has very definite ideas about what a good arch top is (for him) and he's very vocal when an instrument doesn't make the cut. He's very discerning in his taste. But your results may vary so don't let Jack's no sway you from trying out a guitar in a shop with YOUR amp...

**MarkRhodes** · 08-13-2015, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

Clarity of thought is often only achieved after one no longer owns the said object. With nothing invested in it, there is no impediment to achieving pellucid rationality. Ownership leads to cloudy mind. Sorry, another gnomic utterance. In other words, don't piss into the water that you mean to drink out of.

There is a paradox here: only take the word of someone that a guitar is worth having if the person saying so got rid of one just like it. (If it's so good, why did he get rid of it?)

I understand the main point but it seems odd to say that only people who get rid of a guitar know whether it is worth keeping... (Isn't there also a rationalization for getting rid of something? Maybe you sell a guitar because you need the dough but once sold, you tell yourself it really wasn't very good anyway. Sour grapes in reverse! ;o)

**Greentone** · 08-13-2015, 10:19 AM

I'm surprised that the AF200 sounded shrill and bright, given the "formula" of the guitar. It looks like it would be a very jazzy instrument. Of course, the 24-3/4" scale is or isn't going to be your cup of tea. Currently, I am playing only 25-1/2" scale instruments, so that would more or less be a deal breaker, for me. Otherwise, the guitar seems to be the sort that I would take a serious look at ordinarily. I have traditionally liked Ibanez guitars. [The tailpiece on the 200 is "meh," but that's an easy swapperoo.]

There is no doubt that post purchase lemming-mindedness drives much of what we see on the 'net. People feel a strong need to justify their purchases. Almost nobody says, "geez, I was a real clot, there, in purchasing that gizmo. I thought it was going to do x. It didn't even do y. I left my limited mental faculties in the night stand at home when I went out and shopped for that one, let me tell you." Same deal in voting. Nobody much says, "They really pulled the wool over my eyes. I thought the candidate was representing _my_ interests. Turns out, he/she is just concerned about [the one percent/the special interests...]. What was I thinking."

I have that all sussed out: I just play the same guitar that Donald Trump plays and do what he tells me. [Anyone ever notice that he looks like an aging surf band guitarist? His facial expression seems remarkably like that of an instrumental guitar band guitarist taking a lead on "Torquay" or "Pipeline" as he surveys the county fair crowd, with one foot up on the wedge monitor, no?]

**pingu** · 08-13-2015, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by floatingpickup

Like Stringswinger, I also own an older Japanese AF-207. I agree that it is a really fine guitar and I have also wondered why they never made a six string version. I have had three JP-20's over the years and although the body on the JP-20 is nearly identical to the AF-207, the pickup location makes it sound quite different.
Keith

i agree they should make an AF206 !
i have thought about getting an AF207
and converting it to 6 string !
i like a wide fb ....
crazy huh ?

anyone played the ' new' AF200 ?
should be nice ...

pingu
AF120 (half stuffed)

**Stringswinger** · 08-13-2015, 10:47 AM

I would buy that hypothetical AF206. The JP-20 is an interesting guitar, but sounds different. Part of the reason is pickup placement ( 1/2 inch further towards the bridge), partly it is scale length (the JP-20 is 25.5, the AF207 is 24.7 and then there is the pickup ( The JP-20 uses an Ibanez pickup, the AF207 uses a DImarzio pickup).

The AF207 is the only Japanese made guitar that I have ever played that has "thunk"