Played an Ibanez AF-200 yesterday

**jazzimprov** · 08-13-2015, 12:34 PM

[Trump] "Anyone ever notice that he looks like an aging surf band guitarist? His facial expression seems remarkably like that of an instrumental guitar band guitarist taking a lead on "Torquay" or "Pipeline" as he surveys the county fair crowd, with one foot up on the wedge monitor, no?"

...yes! perfect description....

**helios** · 10-31-2015, 03:04 PM

I am considering a AF-200, so I'm glad I found this thread! I have tried the Chinese Artstar AF-151, but not a Japanese made Ibanez. I have yet to locate a sound file of the latest AF-200 (recognizing above said limitations).

To further complicate the psychology of this potential acquisition, I recognize that many of my behaviors are random (not well reasoned), and serve an unconscious purpose (not in a Freudian sense, but based on latest functional MRI research: Leonard Mlodinow "Subliminal" & "Drunkards Walk"). Jeff

**Max405** · 10-31-2015, 05:15 PM

If I buy something and I don't like it, I just don't say anything about it. To me it makes no sense to trash a guitar that numerous other people own and may love, or would like to sell someday.
when I buy something, I make damn sure it's what I want before I follow through with the purchase. Like Jack, if it's broken, I return it.
I would NEVER trick myself or anyone else into thinking it's better than I think.
Jack do you know what kind of strings were on the guitar?

**jzucker** · 10-31-2015, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco

If I buy something and I don't like it, I just don't say anything about it. To me it makes no sense to trash a guitar that numerous other people own and may love, or would like to sell someday.
when I buy something, I make damn sure it's what I want before I follow through with the purchase. Like Jack, if it's broken, I return it.
I would NEVER trick myself or anyone else into thinking it's better than I think.
Jack do you know what kind of strings were on the guitar?

Yes, daddario chrome .012s

**Max405** · 10-31-2015, 07:27 PM

They can make a bright guitar brighter for sure.
I love the chrome 12's on my JP. But I'm sure a broken set of TI's would warm things up a bit.

**GNAPPI** · 11-01-2015, 02:31 AM

Some guitars like 335's, LP's, strats and teles (from Gibson and Fender not clones) have a narrow margin of variability in their sound with playability being the largest bogie, I have no problem buying one online.

On archtops I believe little I read until I play them myself... that said, I've found that low expectations go a great way toward objectivity. I've played dud 175's and Ibanez (mostly the newest models) as well as Epiphones (the newer Broadway, Joe Pass and 175 models) for example that I wouldn't buy. This makes buying online a very hit and miss proposition for me so I won't do it.

My online exceptions have always been older well played guitars. Every one of my Ibanez AG/AF/AK have been good choices even ones with the ACH pups.

On the other side of the coin there are gits with such overwhelming accolades like the Tal Farlow (which I bought online) the L-5 CES, and likely the Ibanez GB (two pup models) that I'd have little problem buying online.

**Groyniad** · 11-01-2015, 09:12 AM

i find it hard to swallow self-satisfied academics trying to point out how naive everyone else is

and i'm a self-satisfied academic of long standing

**arnie65** · 07-01-2017, 01:29 AM

Nothing shrill or bright about the Ibanez AF200 IMO, I have an early 1989 model and it has an incredibly fat tone and hardly feeds back. Just go on Youtube and type "Ibanez AF200" and you will hear a great instrument. A player named "Chris Whiteman" has many videos playing the newer model and sounds great too. Someone mentioned that the AF200 is the same as a JP20 but with only one pickup, nothing is further from the truth; the JP20 has a 25.5 scale, a maple neck, and 22 frets with the neck pickup over 1" away from the fretboard, consequently producing a bright tone with less lows. If you ever played one, you can't help to sometimes hit the neck pickup with the pick. The AF200 has a 2 part mahogany 1 part maple neck, a 24.7 scale, 20 frets and the neck pickup right by the fretboard, the tone is also a completely different tone.

Cheers,
Arnie..

**rio** · 07-01-2017, 01:54 AM

I wouldn't take Jack's opinion to be law - I'm sure they sound good and probably some sound bad and a large portion of that will be how the instrument is played. I don't want to bash him so please no one take it like that, since he can't write back to defend himself, but he has a history of buying a lot of guitars and then changing opinions on some of them later - like when I was looking up info on the Metheny guitars there were comments about how it is amazing and nails the 175 sound but then later a reversal of opinion saying that he doesn't like it. He has gotten and sold so many guitars so that is probably why it's easy to find those examples but many, many people do that. I mean, just as myself as an example, I commented on this thread (which I didn't remember) saying that I didn't like the look of the guitar, but just earlier today I was googling info on the model (before this thread was bumped - a total coinsidence) and posted in another thread that I would like to try one some day - my tastes have changed. And I know that my tastes have changed in terms of the sound that I like too because in the past year I have started to like brighter sounds from my guitars.

I do think that these threads, and ones where people are saying they like a guitar, are useful though. Different strokes for different folks but opinions from others are very useful in this age where we can find so many guitars online and might not be able to try them first.

One thing that I will dispute though is the comment that TI strings are brighter than chromes because of the core wire size - that is just not true. Only mentioning it so if someone comes along in the future not having tried flats that they don't get the wrong idea of which is brighter. Nickel wrapped strings will always be darker than steel wrapped strings given the same tone settings on the guitar and amp.

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**Rob MacKillop** · 07-01-2017, 03:06 AM

I have a feeling some folks "big up" a guitar they've just bought, knowing that in a few months' time they will be selling it. No point in saying, "I bought this dog of an instrument, with no return possible. Anybody want to buy it?". So, you can never believe what you read. Sure, it's not always possible to play a guitar before buying, and I've bought online a couple of times. In each case it was a low-cost instrument, "just in case", and luckily both are keepers (Squire Vintage Vibe Tele, Epiphone Black Beauty).

Buying from a well-respected luthier is also a bit of a gamble. Sure, it might be beautifully made, but will it be right for you? You have to do a lot of homework first.

And then there's the case of playing a guitar in a guitar store, loving it, then taking it home only to discover it doesn't sound or even feel the same. It happens.

Trust and subjectivity - two BIG words.

**JoePassFan** · 07-03-2017, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

I have a feeling some folks "big up" a guitar they've just bought, knowing that in a few months' time they will be selling it. No point in saying, "I bought this dog of an instrument, with no return possible. Anybody want to buy it?". So, you can never believe what you read.

Hi Rob,

Hope this finds you well. Slightly off topic.. not speaking about Ibanez at all but regardless of guitar model or brand, what you say is very true.. an extremely valuable piece of advice. You rarely, if ever, see anyone saying anything bad about a new instrument they buy.. especially expensive ones.

Whilst it doesn't make much sense to me apart from the resale point or indeed, post purchase rationalisation.. it clearly does happen. I don't see why anyone would "big up" an instrument if it played like a dog. In my view, they're only fooling themselves.. me, on the other hand, I couldn't care less. I always gave a true version of any guitars I've owned. Luckily, I've had somewhat of a winning streak as of late.. most of what I've bought has far exceeded my expectations.

I own a certain Les Paul whilst it was made exactly as it should be.. true to historic specifications with a long neck tenon and everything, and I fitted it with the best pickups and electronics that money can buy.. and it has indeed a wonderful tone.. it's just not a very nice instrument to play. It simply plays like a dog.. no matter what you do with it. I've cheap Chinese Les Paul knock offs that I'd rather play any day of the week. But who knows, another person might love it.

Just when you mention Squiers. I remember a while ago, I bought a Classic Vibe Telecaster in Butterscotch Blonde with a black scratchplate.. not sure how much they differ from Vintage Vibe (I don't know much about Squier at all) but it was sort of like a cheapie take on a '52. I bought it based solely from all the rave reviews saying how good they were.. and I wanted a cheap as chips, fun Telecaster. Well, was I in for a disappointment.

It arrived.. looked lovely, I must acknowledge that. But even as a cheapie, it was one of the most disappointing guitar purchases of my life. It was just downright awful, in my opinion anyways. Cheap, tacky electronics (which I'd read almost everywhere were great) and exceeded MIM stuff. The fretwork was unacceptable. The neck felt as if it had been dipped in a bath of heavy glue or something.. front and back.. I probably could have lived with or upgraded the rest but worst of all was the fretboard. It basically made it impossible for me to play. I couldn't bend on it the fretboard was so "sticky". Also, it wasn't set up at all so I set it up then tried to play around it.. I could have fixed fretboard but who wants to do all that? Starting to rub down a new fretboard just to make it playable? Plus voiding any warranty in the process.. So I just decided.. "no". I'll not do anything more to it.

It was that bad I returned it for a refund.. given the low price of it, normally if I bought something like that I'd just throw under a bed or give it to someone. But it genuinely was that bad I wouldn't even do that, I wrapped it up again and sent it back to them and got a couple of pedals or something instead.. I don't even remember. Best of it was, it really wasn't that much cheaper than a MIM Tele.. I really like any MIM Telecasters I've owned. I bought one in Lake Placid Blue a couple of months ago but it arrived with a little cosmetic damage so I had to send it back.. asides from that it was fantastic. I was in two minds to keep it and fix it.. I asked the store could they give me any money back on it but all they could offer was a refund or a replacement. By that time I'd took a notion for something else and just took the refund to put towards it.

That said, maybe I just got a bad Classic Vibe.. I really don't know.. I'll not jump to conclusions as it was the only one I ever had my hands on.. and there are obviously alot of people out there who do like them, so there must indeed be alot of good ones. Anyways, it was a stark reminder for me not to believe everything you read on the internet. Review wise anyways. I feel a person can't really know much until they've experienced a guitar at first hand.

Kinds regards,

JPF

**Ray175** · 07-03-2017, 10:10 AM

As an owner of several Ibanez guitars ("ancient and modern"), it needs to be said that even if the pickups have the same "name", over the years their techical characteristics tend to change. For instance the Super 58s from the 1970s are, to my ears, very close to a good PAF sound (I have a1961 ES175D with which to compare).
The "super 58s" on my 2014 Made in China AR420 have a slightly lower output, a similar overal vibe, but without the "thunk" - I need to slightly boost the mid range on my eq to get close to the 1970s super 58s, and if my compressor had a decay control I would set it to kill the sound more quickly to get closer to the thunk" we all seem to love. I haven't played an AF200 recently, but with other recent (2016-2017) super 58s, I find the sound to be somewhat brighter than on my 2014 model.
Our ears are not perfect tools and only some sort of frequency analyszer can identify the scientific "truth", but I'm not sure our ears can hear all the difference....

**Lobomov** · 07-03-2017, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Ray175

As an owner of several Ibanez guitars ("ancient and modern"), it needs to be said that even if the pickups have the same "name", over the years their techical characteristics tend to change. For instance the Super 58s from the 1970s are, to my ears, very close to a good PAF sound (I have a1961 ES175D with which to compare).
The "super 58s" on my 2014 Made in China AR420 have a slightly lower output, a similar overal vibe, but without the "thunk" - I need to slightly boost the mid range on my eq to get close to the 1970s super 58s, and if my compressor had a decay control I would set it to kill the sound more quickly to get closer to the thunk" we all seem to love. I haven't played an AF200 recently, but with other recent (2016-2017) super 58s, I find the sound to be somewhat brighter than on my 2014 model.
Our ears are not perfect tools and only some sort of frequency analyszer can identify the scientific "truth", but I'm not sure our ears can hear all the difference....

The super 58s in your chinese guitar are also chinese made and thus differ from the japaneese. I have no idea whether japanese super 58s from 2017 sound different than 70s super 58s

**rio** · 07-03-2017, 12:29 PM

I thought that the Chinese made pickups were Custom 58's? Do they make Super 58's too?

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**Lobomov** · 07-03-2017, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by rio

I thought that the Chinese made pickups were Custom 58's? Do they make Super 58's too?

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I guessing, but I had a conversation with a friend of mine about the the Ibanez AFJ95.

If you look at the Ibanez page they are clearly promoting it as having the original super 58s as used by Benson/Scofield etc.

Hollow Bodies Artcore Expressionist - AFJ95 Artcore Expressionist | Ibanez guitars

But then when you look at a dealer site, they are labeled as 'super 58 customs'
Ibanez AFJ95-VSB - Thomann UK

Those are chinese:
Super 58 Custom Pickups - Artcore Series - Ibanez Forum

Them being chinese makes sense in a 600€ guitar. I dunno if the top chinese models have the japaneese pups, but it's a grey area for sure

EDIT: I just now thought of looking the guitar you referenced up:
Ibanez AR420-VLS - Thomann UK

Same dealer listed those as just super 58s without the custom, but again given it's the same price bracket .... I dunno?

**Ray175** · 07-03-2017, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Lobomov

The super 58s in your chinese guitar are also chinese made and thus differ from the japaneese. I have no idea whether japanese super 58s from 2017 sound different than 70s super 58s

Quite right
But I also note that the super 80s pickups in my 2015 MIJ AR2619 prestige sound brighter than the 1970s super 80s on other guitars I have.... so it's not just a question of where they were made....

**Gitfiddler** · 07-03-2017, 03:30 PM

Since Ibanez (Hoshino Gaki) is not an actual guitar builder, their various pickup components and parts suppliers can and do change over time. Super 58 pickups are one of my favorite paf types. But since the mid 2000's, they seem to vary more and more from instrument to instrument. I have no idea what the 'Custom 58's are made of, or their magnets (A2, A5, etc.). But they are not pleasing to me.

I've installed Super 58 p'ups in my Ibanez 2630 back in the mid-90's and they are fantastic...to my ears, and very similar, but different from the 58's that came with my 2001 JSM100.

Maybe its best to simply let one's ears decide what pickups sound good, great, meh or bad, and not worry too much about their country of origin, or manufacturer.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

**arnie65** · 06-22-2018, 12:15 PM

I bought a late 80's Ibanez AF200 from a Japan shop, the guitar was all original except for the Gibson 57's on it. I called Hoshino here in the U.S. and was able to order the japanese Super 58's silent pickups which they use the Pat Metheny (both models) as well the new Benson models. These new ones are A5 magnet pickups but they sound sensational; thick, warm, and fat tone your accustomed to hear on the Super 58's. Not the chinese ones! I much prefer the tone on the early AF200 than the newer Prestige AF200.

Cheers,
Arnie...