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I have a problem with some amps. I am not sure I can hear past 16kHz (depending on time of year, weather, and probably which computer I am on it ranges from 15k-17k), but I do have problems with some amps. But I don't think I have ever had a problem with a tube amp which was all tube and over-speced front-to-back.
Originally Posted by m_d
Depending on how an amp is speced to handle voltage ranges, tube rectification or solid-state rectification will make a difference. It will also depend on which tubes are used. Some sound harsh; others less so (I find 6550s to have their weaknesses, and bad EL34s or EL84s can over-driven easily, but I think most Fender's use 6L6/5881 tubes and this is a clean tube in general). It could be the brand of tube being used - some are much more microphonic than others, and it is possible that amps with overly aggressive negative feedback levels (which can cause amplifier oscillation) or use of the 'Presence' control will mean boosted/uncomfortable high frequencies.
As I mentioned in another thread, there are other things which can be difficult to deal with. Guitars are harmonic distortion machines - they have high levels of many harmonics. Amps themselves have distortions. High odd-order harmonics from the amp circuitry on the top of high order harmonics present in the guitar tone could cause the amp to oscillate as well (this would usually happen itself outside the audible frequency range but would in turn affect amplifier operation inside the audible frequency range).
I'm interested to hear what would make a tube amp be 'harsh' when presented with a super clean tone... Any amp builders out there?
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04-03-2015 03:17 AM
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Not absolutely perfect for me, because I have a preference for 25" necks, but pretty close. Originally Posted by jzucker
By the way, I tried a recent Aria Pro II PE1500RI, a completely different guitar with a 25.5" neck that still somehow felt similar to that on the PE175, was a joy to play, and had a gorgeous glass-like smooth rosewood fretboard (but the all-maple PE1500RI, while sounding great is also very heavy). So I don't think only vintage Arias are good guitars.Last edited by Fidelcaster; 04-03-2015 at 05:09 AM.
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I'm a bit of a fan of older Japanese guitars. I have a Japanese Condor-branded guitar, I think late 70ies or early 80ies. It's definitely a lower budget model even(?) for Japanese standards, but it's an amazing guitar. I have no clue in what factory it was made, but I see similarities with some Ibanez copies from certain periods, so maybe in the same plant as those.
I bought it some years ago for the low price of €150, around $180-200 in that time I think. I put a Gibson Burtsbucker #1 at the neck and replaced the electronics for a StewMac Les Paul set pots and caps. And I had to put a new rosewood bridge since the old one's metal posts and thumbwheels were so badly corroded they couldn't be adjusted anymore. Sounds great! I did a direct comparison with a friend's 1969 single PU ES-175 and we both agreed that there was not really a difference in sound (thru his Peavey Bandit amp, not really my amp of preference). But the ES-175 felt much better to me to be honest. The construction is a bit weird: no tone bars to support the top, just a staple under the bridge. And strangely enough no kerfed lining/rims to enforce the top/side and back/side connections, so I suspect the sides are thicker.
It's the guitar on the far left (pictured with my other hollows and semis):
And to stray a bit off topic:
I saw Peter Bernstein last night and I found his tone gorgeous! He was playing his luthier-made guitar thru a what looked to be a vintage Fender Blackface 4x10 Super Reverb (because the grill cloth was discoloured), but might have been a modern reissue. Great playing and a tone to die for!Last edited by Little Jay; 04-03-2015 at 07:34 AM.
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So what about the Orville 175 and the Tokai? Are they made by the same people who make the Aria ES-650 175 copy and the greco 175 copy?
How do they compare to the gibson?
Also, i'm seeing all these instruments selling in the $1400-$1500 price range these days. For just a few bucks more you can get a gibson.
Last night I did some A/B'ing with my Gibson 175 and the Aria and while I really love the way the aria sounds and plays, the gibson smokes it. One thing nobody has talked about is dynamic range. The gibson has way more dynamic range than the aria. I can dig in and it just keeps getting louder. The aria compresses out very quickly.Last edited by jzucker; 04-03-2015 at 10:23 AM.
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That's interesting. Is that pure acoustically or also plugged in? Originally Posted by jzucker
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both but I'm always playing it plugged in so that's what counts to me. Part of this may be the block under the bridge on the aria Originally Posted by Little Jay
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After comparing this guitar in tone, feel and playability to my '89 Gibson 175, there's no contest. The gibson is an order of magnitude better, particularly in terms of dynamics. It has easily twice the dynamic range of the Aria. I think I'm going to return this Aria for a refund.
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i added a clip of the same jam but with my '89 175. For me, the 175 is clearly the winner and it's not even close.
Last edited by jzucker; 04-04-2015 at 05:57 PM.
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No contest, your 175 has truly that snap that is lacking in the HE.
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yeah, despite the incessant whining and bitching about how horrible a guitar the 175 is, it's truly the champion in the laminated archtop category.
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I dunno, I'd say most of us here appreciate what a 175 can do and why it's been around since the 40's Originally Posted by jzucker
yeah, despite the incessant whining and bitching about how horrible a guitar the 175 is, it's truly the champion in the laminated archtop category.
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Both guitars sound good. Certainly not the same, but good. I'd say I prefer the ES175 based on these clips.
Rather than 'not even close', I'd be inclined to say they are close or similar, but the ES175 has a definite extra quality to it that the Aria doesn't.
What strings are on each guitar ?
I'm not aware of constant whining and bitching about the ES175. It's just not everyone's cup of tea; everyone's ears are tuned differently.Last edited by va3ux; 04-05-2015 at 02:06 PM.
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And that's why Herb Ellis went back to playing with his ES-175. Well...Aria stopped paying him...but his Gibson sounded better to him. If Aria had kept up their bargain, Ellis would have continued to play. Without the deal, though, he defaulted to the better sounding instrument. Originally Posted by jzucker
Don't misunderstand. I love my Aria. A _good_ Gibson, however, is better. Gibson has to bring its "A game," though. Ellis' old ES-175 represented Gibson's "A+ game."
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Originally Posted by jzucker
No they are made in Fujigen.
Yours was made and other Pro II's prior to the mid 80's by Matsumoku. Although some anomalies occur.
Its true that your HE doesnt have the dynamic range of the Es-175. Me and my friend both agree that we found them a bit dull as you suggest. I think the weight (till piece etc doesn't help).
I would still put it to you that the Ea-650 is the nicer sounding version of that series and imo on par with your ES-175 (possibly better).
As I mentioned before, the smaller bodies do contribute to a loss in dynamic range (if I use your terms) but that is part of finding the balance. I think losing a bit of dynamic range whilst tightening up the sound is what concerns me. The Greco the the spot.
In regards to Tokai's those are straight up Es-175 copes, although they have a different fingerboard extension. Exceptionally well made but a little kind of too Japanese if that makes sense. Very tight feel to it, very clean sound but bright.
I have an AF-120 and I reckon I can get your tone. I just need to get an Amp and i'll put something up. Its also got a smaller body (same as FG-100 but with a spruce top). Its actually a JP-20 with the pickup in the right place.Last edited by Archie; 04-05-2015 at 06:06 PM.
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Whoa! I am one of the guys who has consistently chatted up the Aria Pro II HE and the Aria Pro II PE-180 (copy of the Gibson Super-V). I have the latter guitar and I consistently find great pleasure in playing the guitar. The Matsumoku-made 70s guitar is well made, beautiful, and excellent sounding.
OTOH, my main jazz guitar for 35 years was a vintage Gibson ES-175. Although I recently sold it in order to purchase a Heritage Super Eagle that I wanted (and truly enjoy), I consider the 175 to be second only to the L-5CES as the all-time, great jazz guitar.
My ES-175 was simply an outstanding jazz instrument. If I hadn't wanted to move to an 18", carved body instrument, I would be playing it yet.
No anti-175 fetish on this end...just a deep, abiding appreciation of the craftsmanship of Matsumoku from '74-'84.
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04-06-2015, 11:23 AM #66Dutchbopper Guest
I have owned my share of Japanses copies too (Arias FA 70 and the PE 180 so often praised here, a 1977 Ibanez Johnny Smith from "the golden age of Japanese guitars" (ahem, BS claim), a Samick L5 and even two high end L5 clones with carved tops (Yamaha AE 2000, best guitar Yamaha ever made), a Cort 335 etc. and though some were ok, none of them even came close to my 175 or Tal Farlow or 350. Different league. In the end I sold them all to get what I really wanted sound wise. The only one I still have is an Ibanez FG 100.
Sure Gibson quality is probably inconsistent (I hear this but this is not from personal experience because I have never had any issues), sure they are overpriced and surely the new ones do not rock my boat either but there's enough older ones still out there for a reasonable price. Like Jack I play a mahogany Norlin guitar from the 80s and some of these really kick ass and even a Peerless guitar is likely to be more expensive these days.
But who wants a new guitar anyway. I never bought a new Gibson and I never will.
DBLast edited by Dutchbopper; 04-06-2015 at 11:26 AM.
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It's complicated. Originally Posted by jzucker
The Orvilles were almost certainly made by both both FujiGen and Terada, but by that time, I expect the semi-acoustics were made by Terada (which is, AFAIC, top drawer among hollow-body and semi-hollow-body mfrs in Japan). I cannot remember, offhand, and full hollow-bodies, but the semi-hollow Gibson copies are decent.
The Tokais were almost certainly made by Tokai themselves.
The Aria Pro IIs were made by Matsumoku (I expect all the higher-end Gibson copies were - though they had a couple of their "own" factories). For anything which Aria made at the top end, Matsumoku = Aria = Matsumoku.
The Grecos (the brand of Kanda Shokai, which itself was absorbed by Fender Japan in the early 80s) were almost always FujiGen and Matsumoku.
I think most of the Ibanez Gibson-style MIJ guitars of the late 60s, 70s and early 80s were made by FujiGen. I expect there were some early ones made by Terada or Iida. I expect some of the 'specials' made later were also made by Terada.
But all that and 280 yen will get you a short coffee at Starbucks in Tokyo. There were different levels of finish, specialisation, etc. depending on the specification of who ordered the guitars. Terada, FujiGen, Matsumoku, etc all had their own internal 'custom shop' level of guitar-making. They still do. I know a lot less about the electric Gibson-copy Tokais.
Then for the really nice L-5 and d'Aquisto copies, you have guys like Sumi-san, Tsuji-san, and Ando-san (and I am sure there are others). But they run a bit more. And they tend to be much more 'acoustic'.
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much as I like my two 70s Aria Pro II PE180's, they don't even come close to my L-5
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I like those Aria PE175 too , bit heavy though
anyone know what factory makes the new FA Broadway guitars ?
played an FA77 the other day it was great
they're really good ....
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Mine has the sound post, acoustically it's average, but I don't look for it to be lively anyway, I always have it plugged in. Why it's so overlooked is a mystery.
I don't consider it heavy, then again my Gretsch Tim Armstrong is heavier and it doesn't feel heavy either, but some are sensitive to weight... a good reason to play more mellow music and sell the Les Pauls :-)
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On my postal scale it's 7lbs, 5 ounces. Lighter than some, heavier than others. When standing I use a wide soft leather strap, sitting it's no problem either.
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I played a few of these in the early 80s ...
very nice guitars
Herb Ellis himself came to the store where I worked and demo'd his Aria ..... he was great
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They are from the late seventies , made in Japan.
Aria continued to produce the Herb Ellis signature model through the late 1980s, until Herb returned to his Gibson roots and they began producing the new ES-165 Herb Ellis model in 1991, which features his signature on the headstock.
Features a laminated maple body, crème body binding, two bound f-holes, mahogany neck, 20-fret bound ebony fingerboard with split square inlays, three-per-side tuners, rosewood-based adjustable bridge, engraved “Pro II” tailpiece, layered black pickguard with “H.E.” initials, two covered AL7 humbucker pickups, four knobs (two Volume, two Tone), three-way pickup switch, gold hardware and Sunburst finish. Great guitar that originally cost as much as Gibson's Es-175 and Ibanez's Joe Pass models. Just a great buy on a professional level jazz box.it is certainly a treasure.
It sounds great for jazz. Slightly different, but just as good as a Gibson ES-175, however if you have an ES-175, you don't ned the Aria and if you have the Aria, you don't need an ES-175.
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O, man, I wish I could've been there! I'm all about Herb nowadays. Originally Posted by Bluedawg
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It was just him and a bass player in the early 80s .... it was a pretty cool Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Saw him again at a small club in 93 or 94 ...
I was in Memphis for both gigs .... IIRC he lived in Little Rock so it was an easy trip for him
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