Can't decide which hollow body jazz guitar to buy

**East to Wes** · 03-18-2015, 04:14 PM

The Sorrento looks nice. If I can find one in person, I'd consider it.

Then again, so do the AM 153 and the AFJ91. I've liked several of the Ibanez models, and often think they win in terms of pure aesthetics.

I picked the handle for the Emily Remler album. I've watched her videos on YouTube a few times. She was one of the first female jazz guitarists I heard about.

**PaulHintz** · 03-18-2015, 10:42 PM

Another direction a thread like this might take is to use as reference points the guitar/tone of prominent artists, if a person is starting out and seeking a particular sound (granted, the hands/touch of the player are a huge, maybe even the main determining, factor). In that spirit, a few thoughts:

The OP mentions Emily Remler. If memory serves, was mainly known for playing a Gibson ES semi-hollowbody model. Not the usual 335 either. Wonderful tone. Including on the referenced recording.

Mimi Fox generally is heard playing a smaller-body Heritage archtop, a laminated guitar. Used might be in your budget? Also wonderful tone.

I don't think anyone's offered this cliche advice, so allow me: go used if possible. Unless a new guitar absolutely demands that you buy it. Better cost/return, and chance of recouping most of the investment if/when you move on.

I too, if I were going to a jazz camp for the first time, would opt for a "classic looking and sounding" instrument. I started music/jazz school 37 years ago with my only (at that time) electric guitar---a Gretsch Country Gentleman. Umm, that axe (nice as it was for what it was intended for), and my complete lack of jazz chops then, did not win me any respect...

Best wishes with the search!

**Para** · 03-19-2015, 05:43 AM

"I picked the handle for the Emily Remler album"

Great album one of my favourites.

**mr quick** · 03-19-2015, 06:29 AM

Epiphone ES 175 is great.

I use an Ibanez AF 75, which used to be the absolute cheapest jazz box you could get from them. The build quality is absolutely astounding; multi-ply binding on the body and headstock, bound fingerboard, bound f-holes, metal (chrome) tailpiece, FANTASTIC tuners, and low-maintenance. Plays and looks like a dream. Safe to say, I won't be buying jazz guitars for a long, long while.

Cost me 290 bucks. Didn't require much setting up, and it has a TOM bridge, so setup costs are at nada.

**gary mitchell** · 03-19-2015, 10:06 AM

Prestige from Canada makes some fine guitars for the bucks. I took a chance order a Heritage Standard LP and I was amazed blew away my Les Paul Standard, and I ain't talking Epiphone either. Epiphones are great guitars. but this Prestige from Canada was as good or better the my 96 Gibson LP standard. All Prestige guitars come with Grover tuners and Seymour Duncan pickups. Check them out. Most of them under a $1000.00 easy. I own one like the first one Les Paul type love it. They have others also semi hollows. Check Them Out.

**nopedals** · 03-19-2015, 10:27 AM

If I somehow lost my guitars, and had your budget (mine would be more $$$), I would first run out and get an archtop that sounded good acoustically. I practice more if I don't have to plug in to get a nice sound. In today's market, I think that means a Loar. If I had some playing opportunities where feedback is an issue, I would add a cheap telecaster rather than get one guitar that tries to do everything.

Consider spending a little more, and picking up a 1940s-50s ES-125. Surprisingly decent acoustic tone, *great* electric tone, and you will get your money out of it if you end up moving to something else. Feedback prone, though.

Folks with jazz camp experience might want to chime in on whether one is better off with guitars with acoustic tone for informal jams, or whether you need to be more concerned about controlling feedback in larger band sessions. Or ask the instructor at the camp.

**East to Wes** · 03-19-2015, 11:36 AM

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions. It gives me a lot to think about. I probably will not be buying anything for a few weeks, but I'll be keeping my eyes open.

Incidentally, I was looking up what guitar Mimi Fox plays, and I came across this article that I thought was really interesting on a lot of levels. A little off topic, sorry.

Mimi Fox Expands Jazz Guitar from the Inside Out | GuitarPlayer

In particular, I was struck by this line in response to the question:

>"As an educator, what is the most prevalent problem with jazz guitar students?"
> "For one thing, they don’t practice enough. They want it overnight, and they don’t work on essentials such as arpeggios. Also, I typically encounter two types of students: those that are devoted and put in the hours, but don’t have a good time feel or don’t swing or have some other serious issues musically; and those that have a lot of innate musical talent, but are lazy."

Ouch. Either way, that stings. I'm not sure which category is worse.

**Jazzbluzdude72** · 03-19-2015, 06:18 PM

I am kind of new here not new to guitar though and have played nearly 28 years . I just got into the world of jazz I wanted to be challenged and it does that for sure ! I have fallen in love with it . I am in agreement with the things said here if you are new to this genre of music don't go all out and buy a Gibson or something . Find something comfortable that feels good in your hands and sounds good to your ears. Ibanez semi hollows are a great buy and very versatile guitars for all genres of music. especially jazz with a good set of flatwounds and low action with the tone control rolled back a bit . I actually wanted a Ibanez full hollow body as I loved the sound acoustically . I am not sure I ever plugged it in. I may of but I remember I loved the acoustic tone and the overall feel of the guitar . and for not a lot of money.

**mongrel** · 03-19-2015, 06:54 PM

I bought my first fully hollow archtop in 2007 after I sold a Les Paul for lots of money. Since I never had one before, I didn't want to spend a lot of money. After trying a bunch of new and used ones, I settled for a year old used Epiphone Joe Pass for $450. Those have smaller bodies and the necks remind me of the late '60's Les Pauls like the one I had. Relatively thin with a nice flat fretboard. I have very short fingers on smallish hands and it suits me perfectly. I put flatwound strings on it and it is very easy to play. Now you can find them used in the $300-$400 range. I bought mine with the thought that if I liked the type, I could trade up for something better. I still have it but am playing a very short scale-- 24" -- most of the time nowadays. I love those short scale guitars. In my experience, the best used Epiphones are made in the Republic of Korea in the Samick ("S" serial number) or Peerless ("R" serial number) factories. Good luck.

**snoskier63** · 03-19-2015, 07:43 PM

East to wes,

Ibanez and Epiphone are worth looking at in terms of new guitars. If you are looking used you will get more for your money. Guild makes two nice jazz guitars that will come in under $1K used: X-175 and A-150. Since you are mainly interested in a neck pickup the A-150 would be my recommendation. It has a single floating DeArmond Rhythm Chief pickup, which is very nice. For the money this is the best jazz guitar I have played. Here is a nice demo...

Demostración de la guitarra A-150B Savoy de Guild:

**East to Wes** · 03-19-2015, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by mongrel

I bought my first fully hollow archtop in 2007 after I sold a Les Paul for lots of money. Since I never had one before, I didn't want to spend a lot of money. After trying a bunch of new and used ones, I settled for a year old used Epiphone Joe Pass for $450. Those have smaller bodies and the necks remind me of the late '60's Les Pauls like the one I had. Relatively thin with a nice flat fretboard. I have very short fingers on smallish hands and it suits me perfectly. I put flatwound strings on it and it is very easy to play. Now you can find them used in the $300-$400 range. I bought mine with the thought that if I liked the type, I could trade up for something better. I still have it but am playing a very short scale-- 24" -- most of the time nowadays. I love those short scale guitars. In my experience, the best used Epiphones are made in the Republic of Korea in the Samick ("S" serial number) or Peerless ("R" serial number) factories. Good luck.

I like this advice. Thank you. I will definitely look for one of these.

**Jabberwocky** · 03-20-2015, 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by East to Wes

...

Mimi Fox Expands Jazz Guitar from the Inside Out | GuitarPlayer

In particular, I was struck by this line in response to the question:

>"As an educator, what is the most prevalent problem with jazz guitar students?"
> "For one thing, they don’t practice enough. They want it overnight, and they don’t work on essentials such as arpeggios. Also, I typically encounter two types of students: those that are devoted and put in the hours, but don’t have a good time feel or don’t swing or have some other serious issues musically; and those that have a lot of innate musical talent, but are lazy."
...

The story may be apocryphal but I read it in a little book called Art and Fear by David Bayles and Ted Orland http://www.amazon.com/Art-Fear-Obser.../dp/0961454733 :

A ceramics teacher split his incoming class into 2 halves. One half would be graded qualitatively solely on the best one piece of work the student could produce at the end of the semester. The other half would be graded solely on the number of pieces produced, quality be damned. At the end of the semester, the teacher found out that the latter half of students who were graded solely on the quantity of pieces made qualitatively better pieces than those who were graded solely on that one best piece of work.

In other words, forget talent; spend time in the woodshed.

**m_a** · 03-20-2015, 04:47 AM

All right... Russell Malone on the Guild (a vintage one). No relevance, just for the fun. The A-150 only has one apparent knob why is that?

**Para** · 03-20-2015, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by snoskier63

East to wes,

Ibanez and Epiphone are worth looking at in terms of new guitars. If you are looking used you will get more for your money. Guild makes two nice jazz guitars that will come in under $1K used: X-175 and A-150. Since you are mainly interested in a neck pickup the A-150 would be my recommendation. It has a single floating DeArmond Rhythm Chief pickup, which is very nice. For the money this is the best jazz guitar I have played. Here is a nice demo...

Demostración de la guitarra A-150B Savoy de Guild:

Excellent guitar, I played one, the build quality was a1, the acoustic volume is loud and tuneful and I loved the pickup sound, the lack of a tone control was no problem, great value for money. Having owned an original A150 in the 60,s it compared very favourably. The Ibanez AF151 is also a very nice guitar, single neck humbucker volumr and tone controls, again the build quality and finish is excellent.

**Para** · 03-20-2015, 05:04 AM

It only has a volume control.

**emoshurchak** · 03-20-2015, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by dingusmingus

I love guitars, and I never want to discourage anyone from buying another, but there actually is no law that you need to play jazz on an archtop. Telecasters are quite popular, for example.

+1 on the telecaster, particularly the later model American Standards (post 2013) which have a slightly darker tone. I'd also put in a plug for the Epi Joe Pass Emperor for a decent archtop (not as deep as a 175).

**rsclosson** · 03-20-2015, 11:34 AM

I have an Epiphone ES-175 premium and a now out of production Epiphone Zephyr Regent Reissue. The Zephyr has only one pickup and gold hardware. Aside from that, both guitars are very similar. I cannot decide which one I love more.

There is a Zephyr Regent on FeeBay right now. A beautiful blonde 1998 which I would snag if I didn't already have what I have.
Epiphone Zephyr Regent Natural 1998 Mik Hollow Body 6 String RH Electric Guitar | eBay

(Not my listing and I have no financial interest) You would have enough left over for a nice amp.

**East to Wes** · 03-20-2015, 04:17 PM

Of all the electric guitars, I think I like the Telecaster the most. But I can't get over the desire to have a guitar that also plays unamplified.

**Bouviour** · 11-21-2021, 11:07 PM

Hi All!
I've recently been in the market for a hollowbody, however I'm having trouble deciding!
The market for hollowbodys is pretty slim pickings in Australia, however I'm after some opinions on what the pros and cons would be for each of these guitars. I'm looking to get closer to a Joe Pass/Wes Montgomery sound than my tele is right now.

The first is a Heritage "Eagle", however it does not look like others that I've seen. It has Bare Knuckle P94 style pickups. $3800aud

The second is a Sumi "Hand-Made Loar-Style Guitar". Has a humbucker in the neck. It looks very much like a 175, however I'm not sure about this one as I can only find limited information about this luthier. I believe it's from Japan. $2500aud

Both guitars are all solid woods. The other option is to continue saving for a brand new Heritage 575 ($5k) or Sadowsky Jim Hall ($6k).

Any thoughts or words of wisdom?

**gitman** · 11-22-2021, 07:11 AM

The Heritage Eagle would be your best choice from what you list - which model Eagle is it ? One with built-in pickup(s) will get you closest to the sound you want to achieve.

**jim777** · 11-22-2021, 11:11 AM

I've never seen one, let alone played one, but the Eichii Sumi guitars I've seen online are always very pricey and very well respected. As recently as '15 they were all handmade, but I don't know if that's still the case. They are definitely Japanese. A Tokai FA245 should suit as well if you can find one.

**Archie** · 11-22-2021, 01:29 PM

Couple of things.

1) Tokai FA series are good but a little stiff. Too bright for what you want imo

2) Sadowsky Jim Halls are ok but i find the tonal balance to be a little erratic and at $6000* inexcusably over priced.

3) Seventy Seven’s seem really good and available to you, I think.
make sure to only buy the model made in Aska Japan. If you need help confirm with us first and we should be able to help. The Hawk ‘deep’ should be a good choice but might be a little bright.

16” guitars with solid woods will likely not have the Wes sound you want and solid woods can mean a guitar has an erratic tone which will ultimately annoy you. It’s not the holly grail.

**Archie** · 11-22-2021, 01:36 PM

Greco FA67-70 ES-175 | eBay

Should do the trick. I think it’s a maple top but double check.

Just as well made as any Gibson Es-175 for half the price.

p.s Wes and Joe are two different sounds. If you want the Joe sound, get a 175. If you want the wes sound, get a 17” body.

**jazzkritter** · 11-22-2021, 01:46 PM

Hello!
If you can find the Ibanez LGB300 (top line jazz guitar, Fujigen MIJ build) it’s a very good sounding guitar. I have no idea of OZ pricing).
I have an L5, and it’s very close in feel and tone if not better. (Gibson builds vary, Ibanez MIJ tend not too IMHO.)
Or, a used GB200 is pretty much the same and a better price.
Good luck, enjoy the search, and don’t let us opinionated fanatics make you crazy!

jk

**ronjazz** · 11-22-2021, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven

Greco FA67-70 ES-175 | eBay

Should do the trick. I think it’s a maple top but double check.

Just as well made as any Gibson Es-175 for half the price.

p.s Wes and Joe are two different sounds. If you want the Joe sound, get a 175. If you want the wes sound, get a 17” body.

Wes recorded several times with a 175. If you want a Wes sound, get a double-jointed thumb. Most players of 17" arch tops sound nothing like Wes.