Lollar or Biltoft HB-size CC pup?

[Eddie Lang]

Hi,

I'm getting an Eastman AR503CE later today, and I am pretty sure that I'll want to change its pickup (I prefer single-coil pups).

I've only heard good things about both builders, but between the Lollar and the Vintage Vibe (Biltoft), which humbucker-size "CC" would you recommend/prefer, and why?

Thanks in advance!

[D.G.]

I had a Lollar CC in my Eastman 403. I filed a big notch underneath the B string to help balance the output. I also gave it a fairly heavy tilt with the treble end closer into the body. It was a really good sound but I couldn't quite get the balance where I liked it so I replaced it with a Duncan Prail so I could have a humbucking option when needed at the gig. YMMV.

[DRS]

I have the Biltoft in a chambered Tele. It sounds really nice. Haven't tried the Lollar but one factor for me is the Biltoft is $45 cheaper.

[Para]

I have a Lollar HB CC in an AF151 I think it has a fantastic sound smooth, punchy and clear. I found no need to file the pickup under the B string I just tilted so it is lower on the bass side and the string balance is very good.

[robertm2000]

i have a Pete Biltoft CCRider in my best solidbody. Two things to consider - price. The Pete Biltoft pickup is over $40. less than the Lollar. The Biltoft has interchangeable magnets - there is a screwdown mount for the bar magnets and they can be changed in about 10 seconds. Pete includes your choice of two kinds of magnets with each pickup - Alnico 2, 3, 5, or ceramic magnets. You can buy extra magnets for less than $5. per set.

If you telephone Vintage Vibe Pete Biltoft answers his own phone, is very friendly and will talk with you till he is dead certain of what you want. He can custom build any pickup body form you want as well. I phoned Lollar's shop and got a snotty lecture because I didn't know exactly what I wanted! It bugged me so I called Pete Biltoft next. Night and day for attitude! I'm not sure it was Lollar answering his phone but it didn't help at all.

[jazzbow]

Vintage vibe gets my vote. Value for money, swappable magnets and a tone that is to die for.

I've had my H/B CC rider in two separate guitars and in both cases it took the guitar to another level!

At present I have mine in a Tele, a 5 way p/u switch with a soldered tone choke in position 5 for the CC. It saps out lower frequencies that really cut through at volume at my jam sessions and leaves the bass frequencies to the bass. Solo and duo settings I flip to the full sound as it fills out the frequencies.

Is VV CC rider better than Lollar? Dunno mate, never tried a Lolly. Or an original for that matter.

[entresz]

I have two Biltoft floating CC pickups. One is on a Godin 5th Avenue, the other is on a Gretsch G400 Synchromatic. I would highly recommend them.

[ruger9]

I have heard nothing but raves about Biltoft's CC pickups. That being said, does anyone know if they ACTUALLY ARE CC pickups? Meaning, I've heard they LOOK like them, but aren't BUILT like them? (Lollars are built like them, apparently).

Not that that matters AT ALL where tone is concerned- if you love the tone, that's all that matters, and frankly-the swappable magnets thing is AWESOME, and ALL pickups should be like that, if it were feasible. Can't tell you how many times I would have preferred an Alnico5 in the neck and an Alnico 2 or 3 in the bridge! LOL

[robertm2000]

I have heard nothing but raves about Biltoft's CC pickups. That being said, does anyone know if they ACTUALLY ARE CC pickups? Meaning, I've heard they LOOK like them, but aren't BUILT like them? (Lollars are built like them, apparently).

That's the cool thing about Pete Biltoft. He knows exactly what it is that makes a Charlie Christian pickup sound like a Charlie Christian pickup (among other things, 38 gauge wire instead of the more common 42 or 43 gauge wires most pickups wound today use). Ad what's even cooler is that when you talk to Pete before you order the pickup, you can ask him to duplicate that sound, and he'll gladly do it, and in most any physical configuration you'd want. I have no doubt Pete can pull it off.

[jads57]

Peter Biltoft gets my vote! Lollar makes great p/ups, but you'll get more one to one service w/ Peter B.

[mongrel]

I've had three Vintage Vibe HCC's and still have one left. I bought these several years ago and Pete said that he was unable to make the humbucker-sized CC's with .38 gauge wire do to space constraints. I've had these in a semi-hollow Samick JZ-123, an Epi Joe Pass and the survivor is in the neck position of an ash bodied Peavey Reactor AX, a Tele clone. In the semi and JP, I found the tones to be nice and clean but bordering on too sterile. Granted these are cheap guitars and my amps are nothing special. The Tele clone has the best sounds with this pickup. Pete wound all three of them low with the neck pickups at 5.5K and the one bridge at 6.0. Bigger wire would have made them much better. Since the grass is always greener, although I never played the Lollar equivalent, I would go for the Lollar.

[ruger9]

I can't comment on the Lollar CC, but I did own a set of Imperials, and I found them too hi-fi sounding... which alot of people also report on various Lollar pickups. I could see "hi-fi" and "sterile" being the same thing.

Not a criticism of Lollar's stuff, just an observation, and no doubt just a matter of taste/personal preference.

[entresz]

The VV CC on my Godin 5th Avenue is wound with 38 gauge wire, but the one on my Gretsch is wound with 42. These are floating pickups btw --
There was about 1" of space on the Godin to fit, so there was enough room to use 38 gauge wire. The gretsch had less room, it's constructed much like a Gibson in that regard, so 42 gauge wire was used.

Tonally they are both very similar though, and I suspect the design of the pickup has been modified to still deliver the CC sound despite the use of 42 gauge wire. In a blind test I would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

[Eddie Lang]

Thank you all for the replies. Food for thought...

I wasn't able to get the AR503CE yesterday. I'll get it next Saturday.

Please, continue to share your experience with either pup. I know that the two pickups I am looking at are not "real" CC, but my choice will be based almost entirely on which one is the closest to the original, tonewise. Of course, customer service is also an important part of the decision.

[AlohaJoe]

Congratulations on the new Eastman, a CC pickup is a great choice for that guitar IMHO.

I've heard the Lollar and liked it but never owned one. I have a VV humbucker sized CC from Pete in a laminate 16" X150 and if I ever sell the guitar the pickup is staying right here. I got the Alnico 2 and 4 mags but I like the 2 so much I've never bothered to swap it out. I told Pete what guitar it was going into and what I wanted to hear and he nailed it. If the guitar was stolen, I'd buy another VV CC pup and go looking for a guitar to put it in.

I'd say mine (with Alnico 2s) has strong similarities in tone to my old detachable Guitar Mike from DeArmond but quieter, and it's fatter than an old P90 but with similar good note separation... quite similar to the original CCs, and the flexibility of swappable magnets is a major plus.

[Eddie Lang]

Reading the description of the magnets on Biltoft's website, I would probably choose sets of Alnico 2 if I decide to go for his pickup. Beyond that, I know that the size of the wire, the number of turns, and the number of Ohm affect the tone, but I have no idea how or which specification yields the resulting tone.

AlohaJoe, you make a convincing case in favor of the VV HCC. Current pickups that I have on other guitars are P-90, DeArmond FHC, and McCarty finger rest pickup. These old single coil certainly suit the way I play, and it is why I am thinking about a CC-inspired pup to replace the stock humbucker the 503.

[Phil in London]

I have a Lollar CC HB on my Epi JP. Incredibly powerful and yet transparent PU. Worth every cent. They dont supply a bridge PU version though, which I consider somewhat a downside of this model.

[Para]

The Lollar HBCC is only 2.9k smoothest sounding P90 I've ever played.

[oldane]

Generally people seems to like both very much. Thus there are not many (none?) A/B comparisons out there. Those who have the Biltoft are happy with it and doesn't see a need to try a lollar - and vice versa.

FWIW, I like my two Biltoft HCCs a lot and see no need to go on experimenting. I would likely have said the same for the Lollar CC.

[Para]

I considered a Biltoft VV CC it was a choice between the 2 but after listening to sound clips of both pickups for me the Lollar had the sound I preferred but that would not stop me using VV pickups in the future. Like you, once I find the sound I like I stick with it.

[jazzbow]

If (my) guitar was stolen, I'd buy another VV CC pup and go looking for a guitar to put it in.

I'd agree with that.

I also found T. K. Smith does CC pickups, not H/B size tho'. CC Pickups in the UK do a Strat/Tele sized P/U following the original specs but alas no H/B size.

I went for the AlNiCo 2 & 5, The 5 made the pickup brighter and more brittle sounding but the 2's are amazing.

[ruger9]

I went for the AlNiCo 2 & 5, The 5 made the pickup brighter and more brittle sounding but the 2's are amazing.

I've heard alot of people seem to like the 5's in the neck (to keep it from getting to muddy, but these aren't jazzers, these are guys dropping them into les pauls and teles), and 2's in the bridge to keep it from getting to bright/harsh.

I'll probably order a set from Biltoft for my Broadway, and I'll probably get 2's and 5's, for these reasons.

[jazzbow]

I've heard alot of people seem to like the 5's in the neck (to keep it from getting to muddy, but these aren't jazzers, these are guys dropping them into les pauls and teles), and 2's in the bridge to keep it from getting to bright/harsh.

I'll probably order a set from Biltoft for my Broadway, and I'll probably get 2's and 5's, for these reasons.

Yes, the AlNiCo 2's can get muddy and can make my Ampeg fart 'n' flap but I keep the amp tone controls flat.

I also soldered in a tone choke to lose the low frequencies which works really well at volume.


A 5 way switch with a .15 orange drop in position 5. Yes, a 5 way switch on a Tele!

[ruger9]

I did that with my PRS- put in a cap/resistor network in series with the neck humbucker to de-woof it. Works great!

[jazzbow]

I did that with my PRS- put in a cap/resistor network in series with the neck humbucker to de-woof it. Works great!

Yes, the quickest way to stop the 'Farty Flap', and the 'Muddy Meh!'