-
Would you be able to make a general tonal/responsiveness, etc. comparison between the 5751 and an AT7 tubes from your own experience?
Originally Posted by hallpass
Also, I've replaced speakers before in amps, and not always for the better. Before I think seriously about possibly doing this (and possibly ending up with yet another boxed doorstop), can anyone please have a go at describing the Jensen C12K speaker in the new GB HRD (esp. compared to the stock Celestion G12P-80)? Is this Jensen considered to be some kind of 'industry-standard' jazz speaker?
Ha! Unfortunately, I am certainly no kind of speaker (or tube) connoisseur!
TIA.
-
10-05-2012 02:39 PM
-
Is it me or George's guitar sound in the Video was a bit bass-heavy...?
I can get this very sound in my Behringer V-Amp 3 modeler using the Custom Clean model (supposedly based on a Dumble), with the 2x12" cab modeling with my Gibson L-5 CES copy with an Alnico 2 modded Duncan Jazz set. And I can even dial out the bass-heavyness if I want to!
I don't think my wallet's coming out of my pocket for this amp anytime soon... sorry George, no soup for you (Seinfeld reference) from me this time!
-
$765? Really? That doesn't seem bad at all. Not much of a mark-up over a regular HRD, is it? I expected worse. Fender might sell a few at that price.
-
Well also a speaker swap can make a huge improvement in the tone of an amp. I tried the HRDeluxe III with the Celestion G12P80 speaker and thought it was a very noticeable and big improvement over the the stock eminence speakers they used to use in that amp. Smoother highs, crisper bass, nice midrange response.
Anybody have any experience with the Jensen C12K speaker?Last edited by Double 07; 10-06-2012 at 08:42 PM.
-
Yeah, I'd like to know about this, too. My original USA model has the Eminence speaker; the newer model with Celestions is supposedly a change for the better (haven't tried one), but I'm still interested in this Jensen myself. Originally Posted by Double 07
However, there's apparently yet another difference in the GB model over the standard HRD: a "solid pine cabinet", "for tonal resonance and reduced weight". There are builders out there who are all about the cabinet construction as a sonic Art (i.e., Tone King). I couldn't find the stock HRD cabinet spec on Fender's site (I'm thinking maybe some kind of plywood?), but I guess that the pine cabinet is one thing we can't be simply upgrading.
-
Yayyy to a pine cabinet! Great.
Have to agree with the Lt. K. Amp is bass heavy on the video. Not usually the case with George's tone. Sometimes he could use more bass, IMO, but, maybe this amp will make him play better !!!!!! Just kidding.
-
Hmmm, I wonder if these new amps are produced in China. Originally Posted by Flat
-
where do they produce the twin reverb and others?
-
USA or Mexico could be the lesser amps are overseas imports.
-
Made in America only means the final assembly (screw the chassis in the cabinet) is done in US, components are probably made in China and other locations. It's how most big companies work these days. Originally Posted by Darwin_Hoel
-
Out of curiosity, I found out that the stock HRD cabinet is made out of MDF (per Wikipedia) and weighs in at 45 lbs. (per Wiki and Fender); the GB HRD version is made of "solid pine" and specs at 43 lbs. (per Fender's site). Originally Posted by ooglybong
Yeah, I'd like to know about this, too. My original USA model has the Eminence speaker; the newer model with Celestions is supposedly a change for the better (haven't tried one), but I'm still interested in this Jensen myself.
However, there's apparently yet another difference in the GB model over the standard HRD: a "solid pine cabinet", "for tonal resonance and reduced weight". There are builders out there who are all about the cabinet construction as a sonic Art (i.e., Tone King). I couldn't find the stock HRD cabinet spec on Fender's site (I'm thinking maybe some kind of plywood?), but I guess that the pine cabinet is one thing we can't be simply upgrading.
I wonder what discernible tonal difference the pine cab will actually make (at least in a real-life gig). Any experiences here?
So... between the Jensen Speaker, the tube change, and the pine cabinet, all these changes might be worth the GB purchase rather than the HRD upgrade option (although I'm betting that the tube and speaker change will still be most of the difference here).
-
Pine makes a big difference in cabs and how they sound... it's really a significant component of the blackface tone. If I didn't already have a couple of nice amps in that power range, I would be looking at it. I got rid of my hot rod deville when I bought my Allen Old Flame, and although I really dig the Old Flame, the Hot Rod was one of the best sounding amps I've ever had for clean tone and pedals (overdrive was unusable, though.) I had put Weber 12F150s in it - I had the 2x12. Something with higher headroom, 50 to 80 watts in a speaker should make any Hot Rod more versatile... Weber, Celestion Lead 80, several Eminence models.
!2at7s are tricky... there are lots of old military stock tubes out that are really noisey, in spite of being NOS. Stick with JJs for reliability if you buy new tubes. And yes, you get more headroom, but not more overall volume with a 12AT7. It really just lowers the gain structure so breakup comes on later. It doesn't make a 40 watt amp into an 85 watt Twin. But, it's fun to play with and much different from using the lower volume input.
-
Yes, pine cabs make the amp sound like an instrument unto itself. They resonate like - well comparing a solid body guitar to a semi- hollow body (amplified), as an analogy.
Kudos to Fender for supplying a pine cab, for those who care.
-
I prefer 12ay7's in v1 to increase headroom. They are lower gain than a 5751, but not nearly as low as a 12au7. If you want to use a 12at7, you should check out NOS Mullard cv4024(12at7). They sound really nice and don't have that harshness that 12at7's often do.
Another cool trick with the Hot Rod Deluxes is to stick a 12dw7 in v2. This tube is 1/2 12ax7 and half 12au7. The drive channel of the HRD uses the second half of v2 (the 12au7 portion of the 12dw7 if put in v2). So, you get to keep your clean tone intact, but it really drops the gain on the drive channel and actually makes it useable. It increases the bass response and smooths out the highs of the drive channel. Plus, you can get great NOS 12dw7's for $30 and I think JJ makes a current production for even less.
-
It got a very positive review in the current Down Beat mag as well (January 2013 issue, w McLaughlin on the cover).
-
After all the discussion on this amp, they seem to be selling for pretty much the same as a stock one. I think the market for this one is pretty small and niche. Once its been around for a while it will be discontinued. Really can't see what this gives that a stock one cant do with some dialling in.
-
In fact it's the very same amp Originally Posted by ChrisDowning
swapping lower gain Pre tubes, and going for the C12K it's customary on lesser Fender
amps,in fact they put the Jensens ( these days they are made in Italy from SICA,who brought the brand years ago and you can buy direct from them too) as stock in some models (DLRRI,or Vibrolux..) the Hot rod has only one usable channel,and it's a bit too cold as well,but it takes pedal very well,so it's spread along fairly well,it's a "clean base" for everyone;
about the cabinet before going mad over Pine or other woods,I would like to say that a cabinet to sound neutral ( in other words to not add "unwanted" frequencies or "vibrations" to the sound,and so not "influencing" it) should be made of a material the more neutral possible....and the best is....concrete!! Yes...but is of course unusable for that kind of application,so the best
material easily available is MDF,this if you want "only" the sound to be shaped from amp circuit, and the speaker....
Also the Hot Rod has a problem with the volume knob,unless you change it for a linear one,you reach the top power at about 5,or less I do not remember well,I had one many years ago...from there on it only increases a little,it's a very well known issue.I would not "sweat" on this amp.....
-
The GBs are $160 more than the regular HRDx, $900. Is $160 worth it for a pine cab, a 12AT7, a better speaker, and a warranty? The C12K is $108, a Fender 12AT7 is worth about $15. So $37 for a pine cab, fancy tolex, and GB's logo seems fair. You could buy a used HDRx for $350, a C12K for $108, and a good 12AT7 for $25 for a total of $483 with no pine cab and no warranty.
-
Well you won't get one hand built for that sort of price so I suppose $900 is pretty good value for an amp like this. The great thing about Fender amps is they are such a standard around guitar gigs, you can buy one like this and use it for just about everything.
-
Has anyone actually seen a schematic for the new George Benson HRD to confirm any changes in circuitry? Fender has schematics on their site, but not (yet) for this.
Thanks,
-
The Jensen C12K is a fine speaker. With overdrive it sounds very vintage Celestion, a big firm bottom, musical mids, and has a silky smooth articulate top end. On clean @ 100 watts it has a lot of headroom and stays smooth at high volume without ice pick highs.
-
I've never heard of Fender making a signature product that didn't deliver what it promised. Met up with Stuart Hamm a few years ago and he was saying that his signature bass (in production for 17 years) was exactly what he wanted them to produce and he used it all the time. He said the Fender people were very professional and detailed at getting everything right. So I guess the George Benson amp will be the same and exactly what George likes.
-
I put a 12AY7 in the V1 of my Bllues Deluxe and I like that even better than a 12AT7 and 5751.So for all you Blues Deluxe/Hot Rod Deluxe/HR Benson-owners: try a 12AY7, I think you'll love it!
-
A speaker replacement to the stock model would probably get you there as well. Or build a little extension cab with a mellow 15" chassis if you don't want to mess with the original spec - just unplug the stock speaker and plug in the extension. DO NOT FIRE UP A VALVE AMP WITH NO SPEAKER CONNECTED. I.e. don't unplug / plug in on the fly with the amp switched on. And make sure the impediance matches. Valve amps are nothing like as forgiving as solid state amps.
-
I find some clip on the amp, sounds pretty good:
Reply With Quote
Knaggs Chena A
Today, 06:19 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos