opinions needed on a 1964 Gibson ES-335

[Patrick2]

a quote from The Gibson ES-335
"The best way to get a great guitar for cheap is to buy one thats been refinished. That generally cuts the price in half"

It's a very nice site by the way, I bet you could contact that guy for more advise.

And don't get me hung up for it, but I think that guitar might be even more than Patrick indicated! (He currently has a '66 for sale for $16.000, see OK Guitars > Our Inventory | Gbase.com > Guitars Amps & More)

I agree Little Jay. I think my estimate was on the conservative side. But, that was intentional.

[wintermoon]

Prudent and wise advice from Greentone, a man who knows. I had a 1964 ES335TD. It had a head stock repair done by a master craftsman. The repair was very sound, structurally and the repair area was virtually undetectable without a black light. Eventually, I had an opportunity to buy a 1959 dot neck, all original and 9.8 out of 10 condition. At the time, the only way I could afford the 1959 dot neck was to offer my 1964 along with cash. I made the deal. When all was said and done, and the dot neck was mine . . I realized after the very first gig that the '64 was a better guitar. Unfortunately, it was the collector in me, not the player in me that had to have the dot neck instead of the '64. As Greentone said, let your guitar tech do the repair on the head stock tuner split issues. Also, let him replace all of the hardware to original.

Now, here's the caveat;

Do not have your tech take the guitar appart without you being there to look at the underside of the pickups . . unless you trust you tech as much as you would your own mother. The pickups in the guitar, if original, are worth at least $800 to $1000 each. If original, they should have either of 2 stickers on them. One might say Patent Applied For . . . . the other may have an actual patent number printed on the sticker. If the pickups have the Patent Applied For (PAF) stickers . . they are worth close to twice the amout I posted. I have indeed seen original '63-'64 ES335s with PAFs. But, I would venture a guess that with all of the hardware that's been changed, the pickups too might have been changed. Also, check the underside of the bridge. If original, it will be embossed with ABR1. That too is worth many hundreds of dollars. Similar is true of the wiring harness, pots and selector switch. They're all very valuable. If this guitar was given to a dishonest tech for a restoration, and the tech recognized that the owner was ignorant of the value of these components . . they might be tempted to change them out for newer ones and then sell the originals for a huge amount of money. BE CAREFUL . . unless you trust that your tech's integrity and honesty is beyone reproach.

The three small holes on the bottom of the guitar indicate that it was originally fitted with a trapeze tail piece . . and was converted to the stop tail piece. In the current condition of the guitar, that's not a real big deal. But, check to see if the original ABR1 bridge is still on it.

Finally, the faded and patina'd cherry finish on that guitar is absolutely beautiful. People are paying hundreds of dollars to have brand new guitars "relic-ed" to look like that. Yours was done the natural way . . through good old honest playing. Do NOT re-fin that guitar!

all good advice.
one thing though, if the pickups are original [highly likely from what I see] they won't have paf stickers--not in '64, you might see the occasional '63 thinline w/ one paf, but by '64 they'll be patent # pickups. doesn't make a big difference in sound either way though...

love the mojo on that guitar....someone played it.

[Jonathan0996]

With potentially two big holes in the top where the non original tail piece is fitted, putting a trapeze back might be out of the question. I am not sure how to check if the bridge is original but it is not on straight, and the tech says it was also changed.

What I am thinking of doing is taking the strings off myself, and removing as much of the hardware that I can, then find replacements and ask the tech to fit them for me, leaving the rest of the guitar as is.

Swapping out the trapeze tailpiece for a stop tailpiece on those guitars was a common mod at one time. I did it with my '60s 335 and it was an improvement. I'd be inclined to leave it. Mine was also angled away from the pickup slightly at the bass end, which improved the intonation. It was probably done that way deliberately. The way the bridge is angled backwards is another matter, but if it's stable, solid and plays in tune I don't think I'd mess with it. On the other hand, if you take the strings off and those posts wiggle back and forth in the wood, you'll need someone knowledgeable to fix that.

The guitar isn't a museum piece anyway. It's a player, and probably an excellent one. As long as it plays and intonates properly, I'd be inclined to leave it as is and enjoy it. You can find replacement parts if you want to get rid of the grungy hardware, but I wouldn't make any big modifications in an effort to make it "original."

The headstock is potentially problematic, but it too might be fine as is. I'd get a couple of opinions from the best luthiers you can find.

It looks like a really nice guitar. It makes me miss my 335 all of a sudden. Enjoy it in good health.

[rpguitar]

It would really help if you were comfortable disassembling the guitar yourself. It's just a bunch of screws, ultimately, not a big deal. I still reiterate that a thorough cleaning will make it come to life for you aesthetically.

Steel wool, a toothbrush, a shallow bowl of diluted vinegar, and some guitar cleaner and polish (such as Virtuoso brand) are about all it will take. Even the bridge will stand straight if you just get the strings on it and introduce tension. I'd have that axe sorted in a day if I had it! Other than the stop bar, which has to be purchased, but likely fits on the same studs. I think the tailpiece could be an 80s gibson fine tune unit. It also jives with the age of the strap pin on the neck side, which is one of those wing nut shaped 80s examples. The original would be a standard round one.

Doing this yourself will help you bond with the guitar. And it will remove all doubt about trusting some fool to do the work for you.

[Greentone]

That buckle rash isn't bad. You won't want to have that refinished, I promise you. Refinishing even the back of the guitar will hurt the value of the guitar. Vintage guitars get buckle rash--at least, the rock and roll ones do. Heck, people pay to have guitars relic'd to exhibit this sort of thing. I think everyone on this forum would tell you to live with it.