Why did Gibson stop making the regular ES-175

[vinnyv1k]

Patrick2,
Taking your advise and having Heritage make me a laminate single pickup H575 Custom. Giving up on Gibson after 3 unanswered emails regarding regular 175's.

[Patrick2]

Patrick2,
Taking your advise and having Heritage make me a laminate single pickup H575 Custom. Giving up on Gibson after 3 unanswered emails regarding regular 175's.

Good on you, man! What dealer are you going through, if you don't mind my asking? My offer still stands to assist you in any way I might be able to. Heritage is great at building wonderful guitars. But, communication with the end eser is not a real strong point for them. They are not a Gibson or a Fender, with a bunch of customer service people answering phones. They like to work with and through the dealers. If you need a direct line of communication to the Heritage plant, I can help you with that . . . without circumventing which ever dealer you choose to use. PM me if you want or need my assistance.

[vinnyv1k]

Thanks Patrick !!!! The dealer I am using is C.B. Perkins Co. in Calif. They do mostly guitar repairs but are also a Heritage dealer. They seem to have a good relationship with Heritage and they always give me a great price. Very old school business. Business always done with just a handshake. Bought a Super Eagle through them years ago. Ended up selling it for a L5 but it was a very fine axe. They did carve it real thin so it was a feedback monster. Heritage seems to like to carve real thin for that more acoustic sound like a old Epi. That is why I am going with a laminate 575C. I like a stiff top. I like a more electric Herb Ellis type sound.

[vinnyv1k]

Ordered the 575 custom today with just a single neck pickup. Only problem is Heritage will not build me a laminate 575. Carved only. Hoping Patrick that you could use your influence to get them to carve the top on the thick side like the thickness of a laminate. They tend to carve there tops very thin and I like a stiff top. I like a more electric sound vs acoustic. Thank you !!! Vinny

[mr. beaumont]

Actually, if you're getting a maple topped 575 they're quite thick.

i gigged mine recently through a dimed princeton...not a single feedback problem.

Why didn't you get a 525 and custom spec that?

[Patrick2]

Ordered the 575 custom today with just a single neck pickup. Only problem is Heritage will not build me a laminate 575. Carved only. Hoping Patrick that you could use your influence to get them to carve the top on the thick side like the thickness of a laminate. They tend to carve there tops very thin and I like a stiff top. I like a more electric sound vs acoustic. Thank you !!! Vinny

Who was it that told you Heritage won't build a laminate top 575? Was it the dealer? Heritage makes an H525 which is standard with a laminate top. They are virtually the same tops. More than likely, Jim Deurloo will be building the box of the guitar. I'll call him tomorrow and discuss it with him. If for some reason Jim doesn't want to do it and I fail to convince him to change his mind . . there's more than one way to address this. I could ask Jim about using thicker and more robust parallel bracing (Hopefully, you did specifiy parallel bracing and not X??).

I could also ask about bracing the top similarly to the way Gibson braces their L5CES. They have 2 additional braces, with each running off of the lower part of each parallel brace, angled towards the outer edge of the lower bout. That stiffens up the top quite a bit. One of the reasons an L5CES sounds the way it does. I doubt Jim would have a problem with that . . unless he has a concern that it might be an infringement on Gibson's unique bracing pattern.

I'm concerned that a thicker top carve might result in a sterile response. But, Jim would know better than I about that. I'm pretty sure I understand what you're looking for with a thiner (OOPS! I meant thicker) top as it relates to tonal response and minimizing feed back. I'll let you know the out come of our discussion as soon as I reach him. Might be tomorrow . . might not. Jim kinda takes days off whenever he has a mind to.

Were there any other custom specs? I suggest you go on their web site and look at the bound head stock and MOP inlaid log on the head stock, rather than just a water slide decal. Also, remember that the finger board on a 175 is bound. It's bound on the 575. Finger board inlays? They do dots as standard. But, you can get solid blocks if you prefer. (possibly even paralelleograms) What color did you spec? Did you go with the ALSB?

[Falling_leaves]

I found 1989 ES-175 at $AUD 3700 ($USD 3186) locally in Australia.

Any comment regarding this year of production? I keen to buy me a Gibson ES-175 and I dont like the P94 one.

[Jabberwocky]

A 1989 ES-175 has laminated Mahogany back and rim and a Mahogany neck. It also has the Tim Shaw T-Top pickups which reputedly sound very much like the original 1959 P.AF. pickups. Check to see that it has the Tim Shaw T-Top pickups intact. Jack Zucker ended his search for an ES-175 with a satisfying "thunk" with a 1986 ES-175 of the same era. Dutchbopper also has one from 1988 and thinks highly of it.

I missed out on one, a 1988, earlier in 2014 ($2400). It has a nice warm velvety electric sound, the sound that you hear on Joe Pass records as opposed to the stringy bright thin-wood-top sound favoured by some. Whether it works for you or not depends on your own tonal preferences. If you like bittersweet dark chocolate the ES-175 Hog is your sound. It is a Shiraz compared to a Gewürztraminer. (No œnophile I; reading the sides of the boxes in the supermarket.) Leave the argy-bargy to the cognoscenti. I only know what I like.

[Archie]

Ordered the 575 custom today with just a single neck pickup. Only problem is Heritage will not build me a laminate 575. Carved only. Hoping Patrick that you could use your influence to get them to carve the top on the thick side like the thickness of a laminate. They tend to carve there tops very thin and I like a stiff top. I like a more electric sound vs acoustic. Thank you !!! Vinny

I agree with those ideas very much. However if maple is too thick it can sound very very glassy (imo). I would prefer a thick spruce over thick maple. That puts you more in L5ces territory

I am in total agreement with Patrick on this.

[Patrick2]

Actually, if you're getting a maple topped 575 they're quite thick.

i gigged mine recently through a dimed princeton...not a single feedback problem.

Why didn't you get a 525 and custom spec that?

Interesting that you referenced the 525. When I was helping Jim Soloway establish a direct dialog with Heritage, he and Jim Deurloo discussed that same alternative.

Keep in mind, the 525 is 1/2" thinner. There's a considerable difference in tonal response. In fact, I'm curious how that is going to be received by Soloway, with his new build build having a considerably more shallow box. I know that he likes the full rich bottom end . . (thus the down tuning of two and sometines three semi-tones). The 525 also connects the neck to the box at the 15th fret, not the 14th as does the 575.

So, by the time Eric spec'd out his 525 to be more of a persona of the 175 that he seeks, it would be far more expenisve to him than just going with slight mods to the spec of the 575.

[Patrick2]

Ordered the 575 custom today with just a single neck pickup. Only problem is Heritage will not build me a laminate 575. Carved only. Hoping Patrick that you could use your influence to get them to carve the top on the thick side like the thickness of a laminate. They tend to carve there tops very thin and I like a stiff top. I like a more electric sound vs acoustic. Thank you !!! Vinny

Update; I spoke with Heritage this morning. Jim wasn't there but I did talk with Rendal. He's not sure what Jim's response will be to making a 575 with a laminate top. But, he thinks the wings off of the parallel bracing, as on the L5CES, would be a great idea. He also agreed that leaving the paralelle bracing more robust would also help what you're looking to achieve. He is going to have Jim call me when he gets in the office. So, further update to come after my discussion with Jim.

[vinnyv1k]

Thanks for your help Patrick. I already have a L5 & L4. I am getting the 575C that comes standard with a ebony board and block inlays and bound fingerboard. The 525 is too thin plus I like a floating bridge. I like a stiff top like Gibsons. They have a warm electric sound. I do not like the acoustic electric sound. Not a fan of X braced archtops. I am fine with a maple carved top from Heritage but am trying to get the top made like a Gibson top. Carved thick and braced like a Gibson. Vinny

[vinnyv1k]

WOW !!!! Thank you so much Patrick !!!! Yo da man !!!! I really appreciate your help !!! Vinny

[mr. beaumont]

Interesting that you referenced the 525. When I was helping Jim Soloway establish a direct dialog with Heritage, he and Jim Deurloo discussed that same alternative.

Keep in mind, the 525 is 1/2" thinner. There's a considerable difference in tonal response. In fact, I'm curious how that is going to be received by Soloway, with his new build build having a considerably more shallow box. I know that he likes the full rich bottom end . . (thus the down tuning of two and sometines three semi-tones). The 525 also connects the neck to the box at the 15th fret, not the 14th as does the 575.

So, by the time Eric spec'd out his 525 to be more of a persona of the 175 that he seeks, it would be far more expenisve to him than just going with slight mods to the spec of the 575.

Ah, intersting. I knew about the depth, but never noticed the neck connection.

[Patrick2]

Thanks for your help Patrick. I already have a L5 & L4. I am getting the 575C that comes standard with a ebony board and block inlays and bound fingerboard. The 525 is too thin plus I like a floating bridge. I like a stiff top like Gibsons. They have a warm electric sound. I do not like the acoustic electric sound. Not a fan of X braced archtops. I am fine with a maple carved top from Heritage but am trying to get the top made like a Gibson top. Carved thick and braced like a Gibson. Vinny

Yeah . . the fixed bridge screwed into a floating block glued onto the under side of the top of the 525 is another deviation from the 575/175 persona, which I forgot to mention.

I might be able to get Hertiage (Jim Deurloo) to leave a carved top a bit thicker. However, if he agrees to do a laminate top, there may be some concerns about the top cracking, or delaminating under the perssure to form the top . . due to the increased thickness needing more pressure and time to achieve the proper and designated arch.

The more thought I give this, the more curious excitement I find myself getting imagining the results of a carved maple top, braced similarly to an L5CES. I'm thinking that it would be a very good, probably even great sounding amplified guitar. Probably even nicer than the 175. But, definitely unique unto itself.

I think the 575 Custom in ALSB is gonna look fantastic! Did you specify any particular pups? I'm not sure where you got the info that the 575 Custom comes standard with an ebony board.?.? It doesn't. It's a rosewood board and block inlays .. (real MOP . . not MOTS). If you're going to upgrade to an ebony board, the rosewood bridge assy will contrast, IMO. You might also want to spec an ebony bridge assy. The Eagle Custom comes with an ebony board as standard.

One other thing that I would do . . which is clearly a personal preference opinion . . would be to spec a Heritage Johnny Smith style bound ebony pick guard. It's more *Gibson-esq* and I like the look a lot better. But, some do prefer the look of the traditional Heritage pick guard. The Heritage Kenny Burrell and Henry Johnson models also use the Heritage JS style PG.

Another thing that you might want to keep in mind; on the Custom variant of the 575, Jim is inclined to look for a more highly figured piece of maple, than what he would use on a standard 575, because it's intended to be an upgraded version of the standard 575. If you like that look, then that's fine. Some are put off by too much flame on the top, even though they love it on the back and rims. If your preference is for a less flamed (or plain) maple top, let me or C.B Perkins know that. I can easily ask Jim to seek out a piece of maple with a subtle flame . . instead of one that will look like a '59 Gibson Les Paul burst.

[Jabberwocky]

Like Karl "The Mailman" Malone, P2 delivers. Vinny, hope the Heritage 575C is everything you want an ES-175 to be but isn't. I would also ask for non-kerfed tone-bars while you're at it. Kerfed tone-bars are not the ES-175's best attribute.

[vinnyv1k]

Patrick, I think you are 100% correct. Carve the top as they normally do and brace it like a L5. I ordered it with a ebony fingerboard and ebony bridge and no pickguard. D shaped thinner neck opposed to a C neck. 1 &11/16 nut. Almond sunburst with a single Seth Lover humbucker and simple gold 335 style tailpiece. I DO appreciate you helping me on this. Vinny

[vinnyv1k]

Oh ya I love flamed maple tops too. I am not to picky about flamed or not flamed. Would not like a big black knot or tons of black mineral streaks though. I like both flamed or slab cut maple grains. They both look good to me.

[docbop]

Don't want an exact price but for a custom build Heritage 575 style guitar what price range are we looking at?

[vinnyv1k]

My custom 575C is going to cost me $2900.00 a GREAT price in my book.

[docbop]

My custom 575C is going to cost me $2900.00 a GREAT price in my book.

I am really shocked I expected a lot higher. I need to get rid of some gear and a custom Heritage would be nice.

[Falling_leaves]

Thanks for the reply.

Do you have any youtube to share? I would like to know the sound difference from the maple laminate and hog laminate.

Are you sure did Gibson keep the Tim Shaw pup in 1989 production?

[mambosun]

I fully agree with Vinny about the VOS 59; I recently compared it with a regular ES 175 (2010 model) and prefered the latter. But it's just my taste and like stated above, it depends on your expectations, would it match the tone you had in your head or not.
When plugged, I personally found the VOS 59 too much acoustically resonant. Moreover, I'm not sure if it was related to thickness or profile, but the neck was too fat and uncomfortable to play to my taste.
Lastly here in France, the asking price is higher than the regular one.

[jim dandy]

Great thread! Will Heritage put in a Charlie Christian style pickup in a custom build?

[vinnyv1k]

You would need to send them the pickup but those guys will do just about anything you want. Not at all like dealing with Gibson. You can actually call Heritage and directly talk to the head honcho's. Great guys.