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Hey guys. I'm getting ready to purchase my first good electric guitar and amp.
I'm being offered a great deal on a Deville 410 and am wondering if this is a good amplifier for all sorts of jazz music to be played in a solo practice setting as well as a gig. From what I've seen, the jazz venues around here are pretty intimate and small. Should I get lucky enough to gig, is this a good amplifier to consider?
I would also want to use this amp for blues, rock n roll, and various other genres. Also, if anyone thinks these details are significant, the two jazz guitarists I enjoy listening to most and would like to get close to are Wes Montgomery and Jim Hall, but I want to approach learning and playing jazz with an open mind and palette so I can play many different styles.
So far here are the pros and cons that I'm aware of.
Pros:
• 60w allows plenty of room for clean sounds
• It's probably the loudest amp I could possibly need for up to a large/medium venue
• Well rounded amp (not entirely sure but I've been told)
Cons:
• Heavy
Here are some questions that I hope you will help me answer:
1. Can I play this quietly enough in my house so that it wouldn't wake anybody up?
2. Is it practical for small-medium jazz venues?
3. Does it have a lot of tonal variety?
Thank you for bearing with me through my first post on this forum
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11-08-2014 09:07 PM
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Dak,
I maintained a couple of DeVilles for a touring band a decade ago. The amps worked flawlessly and sounded great for the jam band rock that the band was playing. The amps are a truly loud 60 watts and have a good Fender sound through the clean channel. The distortion channel is something I can't really comment on because the band's guitarists never used those channels. They used Tube Screamer pedals for the high gain stuff.
These guys were on the road, playing 5-6 nights per week. The amps never failed, with the exception of an input jack that need to be resoldered to the board on one amp.
Although the DeVille doesn't sound the same as a Super Reverb (the 4x10 speaker load on the DeVille is an 8-ohm load, but the 4x10 load on the SR is a 2-ohm load), the DV gets a very identifiably "Fendery" tone.
Jazz? Sure, why not? Play quietly? Absolutely...just turn down the master volume. Wide variety of tones? Well...I never thought any Fender amps had a wide variety of tones; I just thought that Fender amps had/have a great, signature tone. You hear them, you like them--they are the sound of electric guitar.Last edited by Greentone; 11-08-2014 at 10:35 PM.
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All of what Greentone says. +1
But also, HEAVY. How old are you? You don't have to say it here, but remind yourself. The Fender 4x10 format sounds amazing but is a beastly rig to lug around. If that doesn't matter, then go for it!
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Growing up, my best friend had a Tweed 4x10 Blues DeVille (pre-Hot Rod). I logged a ton of hours playing on that amp, and listening to my friend play it.
The only thing that gives me pause about that amp is that it is really loud, and bright. To turn the thing up enough to really feel the tubes (I don't even mean getting some light grind), it was deafening. My friend bought a Strat at one point, and even though he was in a SURF BAND, it was too loud and bright.
I myself always had some kind of tube-preamp, but solid state power amp stuff, first a 40w Marshall Valvestate, and then moved on to rack system with a JMP1 plugged into a solid state power amp. Between my own stuff, and my best friend's DeVille, I NEVER understood what real tube amp tone was. When I went to college, I bought myself a Peavey Classic 30. I remember the first time I turned it up and felt the amp start to "give" a little, and it finally clicked - "oh, that's what everybody is talking about."
Now that I live in small wattage, pre-tweed amp land (EH-185, EH-150, BR-6, etc.), I totally get amp grind (even without actual distortion) at reasonable volumes, and occasionally without the headroom I need in a given situation. I still have that Classic 30, and when I've needed a bit more headroom, it's always done fine. It's no EH-185 tonally, but a completely saturated EH-185 that you still can't hear is worse.
Not that the math actually works like this, but I never had problems with clean headroom on a 30w 1x12", and I never really felt like you could get the 60w 4x10" DeVille to "feel good" without being at an intolerable volume.
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If you do buy it - consider getting power amp tubes that break up on the early end of the spectrum.
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I want to thank you guys all so much for your input, which I value greatly! As for weight, I'm not too concerned. I'm not ready to go out gigging just yet so it'll stay in my room for a while
. I think I'll be very happy with a DeVille at least for now. I'm not too interested in gainy tones, at least not yet.
However, if any of you would like to suggest any other amplifiers within the range of $1000, please feel free! I'd like one that's more versatile than just "jazz" but does have a nice jazz tone should I want one.
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Yeah, I'm not talking "gainy" tones, i.e. actual overdrive. I'm talking about the specific responsiveness of tube amps, and the warmth and "life' they bring when you turn them up.
Originally Posted by Dak
From my extensive experience with one of those amps, if what you're primarily concerned with is bedroom amplification, which is what my friend's was for, you'll barely be able to turn it to 2 or 3 without wincing from the ice-pick treble or the sheer volume. Even when he played in a band, I don't think it ever got turned up past 3 1/2. And at that low volume, there was no tube "vibe" at all.
There's plenty of tube amps at and below $1000 that would be far more suited to what you need. Hell buy a used Peavey Classic 30 on Craigslist or Ebay for a couple hundred dollars, and you'll get something far more suited to home use, and most reasonable gigging. Plus, since they entirely fungible, you can probably resell it on Craigslist for what you paid when you decide to upgrade. Also, a 1x12 Blues Deluxe would also be far more suited to your needs.
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For mainly a bedroom practice amp that's pretty big amp. Especially since tube amps after to be pushed to a certain point to start getting their sound. I would get a small solid-state amp that can get a good sound at low volume, and when ready to gig then get a bigger tube amp. The Roland Cube amps are good amp for practice and the larger ones are good for small gigs. Plus the Cube's depending on model have a looper, effects, and the gets a good clean JC120 sound.
Buy small now, get bigger went you need and can use it.
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Thank you! You're not the first one to suggest that amp to me, so I'll certainly check it out. Originally Posted by campusfive
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I'm not exactly looking for a bedroom practice amp. I would like one amp that can handle jazz very well in both a gig setting and a bedroom setting. I aimed for the DeVille because I assumed would suit both needs, but I will take into consideration all the advice I've gotten from here and other places, do some thorough experiments (jamming Originally Posted by docbop
) on these amps, and in the end go for what my heart clicks with the most.
Last edited by Dak; 11-10-2014 at 04:07 AM.
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Hi Dak,
look for some YouTube-vids of Martijn van Iterson. He has a DeVille, the 2x12 version and he uses it all the time. I had a Blues DeVille back in the 90s (4x10) - great sound, but to heavy for me.
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It's a good sounding amp, and is pretty flexible in terms of the range of sounds you can get out of it. However, it's REALLY heavy, and physically quite large, so it's not terribly practical for playing on small stages in small rooms. If you actually want to play it turned up loud enough to take advantage of its best tones, it's likely too loud for such settings as well, and definitely much louder than is useful in a bedroom practice amp. There's one in a rehearsal studio where I play with a reasonably loud funk/blues/fusion group, and with the clean channel volume at 3 and the master at 5-6, it's REALLY loud, and very clean. I can't really imagine any setting where I'd want it any louder than this Originally Posted by Dak
Different people have ideas of "clean enough for jazz," so you have to kind of figure this out for yourself. But I can generally get my idea of "clean enough for jazz" out of something a lot smaller -- Deluxe Reverb, Princeton Reverb, or Blues Jr are all the amp I need, and am a lot happier trying to carry one of those than one of it's larger brethren.
John
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For a $1,000 budget, you might want to take a look at the Allen Sweet Spot that's listed in the for sale section. 18 watts with 6V6's and 25 with 6L6's. The Allen web site has a nice clip of a Guild archtop being played through one. Just a thought. Originally Posted by Dak
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Yes, buy the DeVille. It's overkill now but that doesn't mean it'll be overkill with that first band you join
As for "icepick" tones there are a few things you can do to help with that if needed, the cheapest being taping "beam blocker" cardboard cutouts directly over the center of each cone on the grill cloth.
You should always have a "big" amp in your arsenal. And a little amp. And a medium amp. One of which will be "just right" for that band/gig.
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+1..... great amp, one of Fender's better modern amps, BUT.... heavy and loud. I honestly don't know if
1) if I was schlepping it to gigs, I would want something that heavy
2) if I only played at home, I would want something that loud. Turning down the master volume on a 60W amp isn't usually as good-sounding as buying an amp with lower wattage and being able to turn it up a bit, so the circuit can breath and function as intended.
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Hey guys! I'm just reporting that I did indeed buy the DeVille today. So far I'm happy with it, and I'll report back once I've had time to become very familiar with it. Thank you to everyone who helped me out
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Good choice! I had a 2x12 Deville and thought that boutique amps were the answer, so I sold it. I now have Allen and Vintage Sound amps as well as a Twin for jazz and, while I really like them, that Deville was a GREAT sounding amp, especially after I replaced the stock speakers with Weber F-150s. (which I DON'T like in any other amp I've tried them in.)
Drive channel is pretty bad, but with pedals, great amp. Not sure about the 4x10 vs 2x12, but now you have it, so have fun.
If you keep good quality tubes in it, you can get great sound at lower volumes, so don't worry about it being "too much" or having to let it "open up" to get good tone. Louder is better, but I play a Twin on 2 all day long, and it sounds great. If it's set up properly, it should be quiet and still give you a great tone for jazz.
I got nailed once on this forum for suggesting that people needed to lift weights to own a good amp (someone with a disability didn't think that was being sensitive) but there are lots of good reasons to stay in shape, and owning a nice tube amp is one of them. (Disclaimer: if you have back issues or are disabled, you have other options.)
But, there is nothing like a great tube amp, so if you can lift 70 pounds safely, just use good lifting form (butt out,slightly arched back, bent knees, lift close to your chest) and stay in shape so you can have the option of a tube amp, if you like the sound. I'm 59 and can still take a Twin on gigs without hurting myself, but only if I'm getting paid It does sound wonderful, I have to admit.
Enjoy!
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