Let's Talk PAF (Or Similar) Pickups!

[Greentone]

Yes, pickup threads abound.

In answer to the question, I have the SH-1 '59 Duncans. They work fine, for me. They have good tone and the output is less than on the hid-70s humbuckers that Gibson was using. That was a period in which high output was prized. Remember, back then people removed PAFs to put in Dimarzio Super Distortion pickups. The pickups in my L6-S Midnight Special from 1974 (smooth tops) were about the hottest pickups ever made in response to that craze. I think those pickups will overdrive the preamp circuit in your amp _before_ you plug in. :-)

[Jazz_175]

Your guitar and your amp are the signal chain. PAFs in a great guitar...played through a sucko amp sound meh. Patent pickups in a Norlin-era Gibson...played through a terrific amp sound darned good. You have to consider the entire signal chain, in other words. As a rule, a vintage Gibson with PAF pickups are going to sound outstanding when played through a decent amplifier.

For example, a late-50s L-5CES through a blackface Twin Reverb is sonic heaven for bluesy, hardbop jazz. You are going to kick some tail with that rig. Many companies have more or less figured out the PAF formula. I personally prefer Duncan, but other pickups sound excellent to me, too. I have Duncans in my Norlin-era ES-335 and really like the results, especially when compared with the quite hot humbuckers that came in the '75 originally. (I keep them around, of course, for the originality of the guitar--but I _play_ the guitar with Duncans.)

I think you are right. Guitar-amp combination should always be considered.
When I play my Gibson ES-347 that has quite hot pickups (Dirty Fingers or Series VII, I don't know exactly. Someone told me the Dirty Fingers were produced also as a response to the DiMArzio Super Distortion)
I often think I should change the PUs to maybe Duncans or others, but when I plug the 347 in the Deluxe Reverb Reissue, which is kind of a bright amp, I get such a nice sound that I decide to postpone the idea of pickup swapping.

[feet]

i don't know. i always want to improve and tinker with what i have, but its been a while since i've had something that was too crappy to own. with due diligence, once you're past a certain price point (that's lower than you realize), nothing flat out sucks. things get better, or perhaps, more to your liking, but most stock offerings won't hold you back. provided you know what you're doing, and can work the knobs on your guitar, amp and pedals.

i've modded damn near everything else on all my guitars (caps, pots, bridges and harnesses, mainly) but pups are the last to go. especially since after i rip everything else out, i'm (essentially) left with a new set up pups. whether the tone was magically liberated by my genius mods or i just understand them better, i can't say.

i'm still more than willing to swap the pups out now, i just don't have a the patience, funding or pressing need to, which is often deterrent enough these days. but in the interest of sharing with, i was most likely to have arcane-inc make something for me, or roll the dice with some combination of florance voodoos. or possibly lollars.

[TOMMO]

Minute details of equipment? You've come to the right place (well, one of them)...

What's next? Caps?

[HeyNow]

What's next? Caps?

in the guitar or in the amp? If the latter, signal or filter caps?

[TOMMO]

in the guitar or in the amp? If the latter, signal or filter caps?

guitar...I wouldn't touch an amp...

[Beanctr]

I put Gibson 490Rs in my Ibanez PM2 and AS183 to replicate my ES-165. My others have Classic 57's. I'm very happy with the Gibsons. Rick

[HeyNow]

guitar...I wouldn't touch an amp...

I was just being facetious - people have argued about literally every aspect of the signal chain. Ken Fischer even believed the wire covering color had an effect. Given his ear, I don't discount any of his theories.

[JPMike]

Paper in Oil Caps? Also, changing the jack to Switchcraft? Wiring Harness? LOL

[oldane]

IMHO, there's basically humbuckers and single coils. I find single coils better balanced than humbuckers. Humbuckers tend to be muddy in the buttom when the top is mellow and harsh in the top when the buttom is clear. Not so with single coils. There are other differencies but those are usually not bigger than can be handled by minor tweaks to the EQ settings. That said, I have Biltoft HCC with Alnico II magnets in my favorite axes and haven't looked back for some years now.

[hodshonf]

wake up post...

anyone have experience with

Manlius Landmark

Landmark PAF from Manlius Pickups – Manlius Guitar

or

Vineham Vivid

Humbucker_pickups

?

[darkwaters]

Zombies !

I have no experience with Manlius, but I just installed a Vineham Telepaf in the neck of my Tele. A very fine pickup for a modest price. Mine is Alnico 2, roughcast, unpotted, nickel cover. Very articulate pickup from top to bottom and just what I wanted. This guy is getting a respectable following in Canada and, especially, here in Newfoundland. He appears to me to be both a connoisseur and a craftsman.


And he has great teeshirts !

[BeBob]

I am also very happy with the Gibson Burstbucker Neck HB I have in my chambered LP. It does jazz just fine.

I have Burstbuckers in my solid body 50s reissue LP, and I think it does jazz just fine. I don't quite understand why BBs don't get the love around here.

[BeBob]

Remember, back then people removed PAFs to put in Dimarzio Super Distortion pickups. The pickups in my L6-S Midnight Special from 1974 (smooth tops) were about the hottest pickups ever made in response to that craze. I think those pickups will overdrive the preamp circuit in your amp _before_ you plug in. :-)

Evidently the Super Distortion pickups didn't take it far enough into the extreme, as they even came out with a Super Distortion Plus in the late 70s.

[icr]

My experience with PAF pickups is that they are rare and when they do come up for sale, the guitars in which they exist are way, way over priced. So, I don't have any now and have never had any. All of my Gibson pickups are patent number pickups. I can't say I have had any tears over the situation.

[HeyNow]

wake up post...

anyone have experience with

Manlius Landmark

Landmark PAF from Manlius Pickups – Manlius Guitar

or

Vineham Vivid

Humbucker_pickups

?

I think Manlius makes very good pickups, especially for the price. I owned the Hot Rod 59s but with a custom magnet tweak. Also have his P90s in a Goldtop of mine.

never heard of Vineham.

Throbak is the closest I've heard to a PAF. Pretty much nailed it.

[HeyNow]

My experience with PAF pickups is that they are rare and when they do come up for sale, the guitars in which they exist are way, way over priced. So, I don't have any now and have never had any. All of my Gibson pickups are patent number pickups. I can't say I have had any tears over the situation.

The early patent numbers - up to around '63-64 in nickel cover and up to around '67 in gold covers are identical in construction to short magnet PAFs.

The nickel cover ones - you have to see the bobbin wire. They changed to blood orange and then copper/orange around '63-64.

This altered the tone.

If it's chrome cover, it's almost always copper bobbin wire.

[hodshonf]

Zombies !

I have no experience with Manlius, but I just installed a Vineham Telepaf in the neck of my Tele. A very fine pickup for a modest price. Mine is Alnico 2, roughcast, unpotted, nickel cover. Very articulate pickup from top to bottom and just what I wanted. This guy is getting a respectable following in Canada and, especially, here in Newfoundland. He appears to me to be both a connoisseur and a craftsman.


And he has great teeshirts !

yes! i may have to grab one of those shirts.

so since i stirred the Zombies,

i have a budget AF-75 Ibby that has ceramic HBs.

they aren't bad for this level of box.

but, i thought i'd experiment and move to a better platform later.

looking for something that will do a Bill Frisell dreamy and a Scott Henderson edgy.

my tech recommended the SD Jazz (neck) and SD 59 (bridge).

i see a lot of negatives about the Jazz pup.

i think AlNiCo 2 will give me the chime but not the grunt when pushed.

thoughts?

[GNAPPI]

My thoughts on PAF's and their copies...

Note, I'm having some fun here, don't get riled up :-)

1. If you never heard (or better still owned) a real PAF, why chase the sound?

2. If the pup is weak, turn up the volume, already at 10? Get some more watts.

3. If it's too tinny or "middy" or bassy, stop being stubborn leaving the amps EQ at center and adjust them. The same goes for the tone pot on the git.

4. Getting tone from a good amp is easier and less costly than replacing pups over and over again.

5. Playing a lot more gets more tone from the system, that being the git, the player, and amp.

6. If the pup sounds crappy, and there are pedals in the loop, why would a $150 pup fix it? And would you know that it did?

7. Don't buy a git that you don't like the sound of in the first place.

8. If you DID buy a git you didn't like the sound of maybe starting over at #1 above is a good idea.

9. And finally if the pup already in the git is dead, get a 57 classic and be done with it, OK I'm DUCKING the rocks thrown at me already!

From another forum I'm on I read: "I've replaced pups a million times..." HUH???

[hodshonf]

My thoughts on PAF's and their copies...

Note, I'm having some fun here, don't get riled up :-)

1. If you never heard (or better still owned) a real PAF, why chase the sound?

2. If the pup is weak, turn up the volume, already at 10? Get some more watts.

3. If it's too tinny or "middy" or bassy, stop being stubborn leaving the amps EQ at center and adjust them. The same goes for the tone pot on the git.

4. Getting tone from a good amp is easier and less costly than replacing pups over and over again.

5. Playing a lot more gets more tone from the system, that being the git, the player, and amp.

6. If the pup sounds crappy, and there are pedals in the loop, why would a $150 pup fix it? And would you know that it did?

7. Don't buy a git that you don't like the sound of in the first place.

8. If you DID buy a git you didn't like the sound of maybe starting over at #1 above is a good idea.

9. And finally if the pup already in the git is dead, get a 57 classic and be done with it, OK I'm DUCKING the rocks thrown at me already!

From another forum I'm on I read: "I've replaced pups a million times..." HUH???

i agree with all of the above. no zombie rocks from this direcshum.

i like the guitar as is. quite a bit.

just thought i could bump it a bit with a different set of pups.

[darkwaters]

yes! i may have to grab one of those shirts.

so since i stirred the Zombies,

i have a budget AF-75 Ibby that has ceramic HBs.

they aren't bad for this level of box.

but, i thought i'd experiment and move to a better platform later.

looking for something that will do a Bill Frisell dreamy and a Scott Henderson edgy.

my tech recommended the SD Jazz (neck) and SD 59 (bridge).

i see a lot of negatives about the Jazz pup.

i think AlNiCo 2 will give me the chime but not the grunt when pushed.

thoughts?

They are nice tees, aren't they. I showed this one to Mrs. darkwaters earlier. Never know what the fat guy may have in his sack.

My thinking, especially for jazz fiddles, is low wind for clarity, roughcast Alnico 2 for chime and vintage vibe, no potting to bring out the woody voice of the guitar and nickel covers cause they look great.

I'm a big fan of Duncans and, believe it or not, I once owned an AF75. Personally, I'd go for a Seth Lover in the neck and a 59 in the bridge. Given that it's a budget guitar, I could also make an argument for going with the Vineham's. I think you'd be pleased either way. You'll notice a distinct improvement over the stock pickups.

Funny, I was playing my Tele with the Telepaf in the neck just now and thinking how "Frisell" it sounded on certain tunes.

Out of curiosity, why do you have doubts about the SD Jazz ? I'm not familiar with that one.

[hodshonf]

They are nice tees, aren't they. I showed this one to Mrs. darkwaters earlier. Never know what the fat guy may have in his sack.

My thinking, especially for jazz fiddles, is low wind for clarity, roughcast Alnico 2 for chime and vintage vibe, no potting to bring out the woody voice of the guitar and nickel covers cause they look great.

I'm a big fan of Duncans and, believe it or not, I once owned an AF75. Personally, I'd go for a Seth Lover in the neck and a 59 in the bridge. Given that it's a budget guitar, I could also make an argument for going with the Vineham's. I think you'd be pleased either way. You'll notice a distinct improvement over the stock pickups.

Funny, I was playing my Tele with the Telepaf in the neck just now and thinking how "Frisell" it sounded on certain tunes.

Out of curiosity, why do you have doubts about the SD Jazz ? I'm not familiar with that one.

with the SD Jazz i am guilty of reading too much internet.

eventually, you'll find something negative about EVERYTHING.

since you had an AF75 - you know those ceramics.

i actually don't mind them - i use a Klon style pedal and a VFE Standout (HPF and LPF) pedal and it really makes the guitar sing.

the AF75 plays great, though there is a weird resonance (body vibration) with all the E notes on the A, D, and G strings. only when played acoustically.

easy to overlook at this price range.

i have .012 chrome flats on it, which are great.

i was reading the SD Jazz (i think is A5), Seth Lovers, and other neck AlNiCo 2 pups tend to sound thin.

i will go to my tech (Mike Lull in the Seattle area) this weekend and sit down with what he's got in his showroom.

i'm getting wearing with reading about this stuff.

thanks for the input!

[hodshonf]

pulled the trigger.

an accomplice pointed me to a used set of Classic 57/57+ pups for 1/2 the price of new.

have to start somewhere.

they will be my first AlNiCo IIs.

so, off to the tech for a pup install, harness upgrade, blah blah.

[GNAPPI]

Regarding the SD "Jazz" pickup, one only need to go the SD site to read what they have to say about it, and determine whether or not it jells with the consensus of opinions on the web. If what you read is close to what SD says, and it's what you're looking for, then the SD "Jazz" will fit your sound quest.

From the SD site...

"The Jazz Model neck is a bright, vintage-output humbucker which stays clear even under extreme distortion"

[jorgemg1984]

My thoughts on PAF's and their copies...

Note, I'm having some fun here, don't get riled up :-)

1. If you never heard (or better still owned) a real PAF, why chase the sound?

2. If the pup is weak, turn up the volume, already at 10? Get some more watts.

3. If it's too tinny or "middy" or bassy, stop being stubborn leaving the amps EQ at center and adjust them. The same goes for the tone pot on the git.

4. Getting tone from a good amp is easier and less costly than replacing pups over and over again.

5. Playing a lot more gets more tone from the system, that being the git, the player, and amp.

6. If the pup sounds crappy, and there are pedals in the loop, why would a $150 pup fix it? And would you know that it did?

7. Don't buy a git that you don't like the sound of in the first place.

8. If you DID buy a git you didn't like the sound of maybe starting over at #1 above is a good idea.

9. And finally if the pup already in the git is dead, get a 57 classic and be done with it, OK I'm DUCKING the rocks thrown at me already!

From another forum I'm on I read: "I've replaced pups a million times..." HUH???

Gary, that's a good list. I would just disagree with number 6, most pedals these days have no effect on timbre, im my experience. They came a long way!