Neck pickup suggestions - single coil, humbucker-sized

[ruger9]

I've been trying to find the right neck pickup for my Epi Peerless Broadway.... this guitar puts out alot of warmth and mids, even electically, so I need a really clear, maybe even mid-scooped?, pickup.... The Mean90 I have in their now actually sounds good, very fat and snotty, but it's not the sound I'm after. I'm thinking I need something very low wind to get the woody clarity I'm after?

It needs to be humbucker-sized, which limits choices considerably. So far, without going to custom-wound route, I have found these:

Mojotone P90, wound to 7.4K

Kent Armstrong Ragtop Convertible, wound to 7.8K

GFS Surf 90, which advertises "no amp-searing midrange"... attempting to copy the Dynasonic sound, they will be mid scooped

SD Phat Cat.... torn on this one: the recent Premier Guitar Review of HB-sized P90s said this one was the brightest and clearest, but for years I have read people complaining that the PC neck pickup is muddy...?
"If your humbucker guitar sounds like it’s trying to sing with marbles in its mouth, a set of Duncan Phat Cats will make it spit ’em out, pronto. They excel at styles that demand crisp precision, and they’re a fine option for darker-toned guitars. " [this sounds EXACTLY like what I need, but all those forum user reviews have me hesitating...]

If I bump up the cost, I head into TV Jones territory (all his stuff his mid scooped), but I don't want this guitar to sound like a Gretsch either....

If it helps at all, and I know this is a ridiculous thing to aspire to, this video of a vintage Zephyr Regent with a Tone Spectrum pickup is the tone I'm after... or at least in that ballpark... I know, I'm dreaming....

[zigzag]

Call Lindy Fralin and get him to wind a P-92 to your specs.

Welcome to Lindy Fralin Pickups: Fralin Humbuckers - The Finest Guitar Pickups Available Today!

[mongrel]

I've had a Phat Cat neck pickup in several of my cheap Korean-made guitars including the only hollow archtop I own, a Joe Pass. I wouldn't call it muddy but it is a bit dull compared with the VV HCC I had in it before that is a low wind measured at 5.5 K by Pete, the manufacturer. Now I've read on other forums that the Phat Cat will come alive a bit with a magnet change from the alnico 2's and/or taking at least a thousand winds off the coil to take it from around 8 K that mine measures into the low 7's. I am tempted to have that done to my neck Phat Cat and put it back into the JP.

[pubylakeg]

There's also the Pete Biltoft Vintage Vibe h/bucker sized "CCRider" model. Essentially a Charlie Christian blade type p/up made for h/bucker routing. Haven't tried one myself (I'd love to though),but one of our forum colleagues vinlander has modified his Epi Emp Regent, very nicely, with one of them.

Perhaps you could PM him for the lowdown.

Humbucker-size Blade Style Single Coil Pickups

[oldane]

There's also the Pete Biltoft Vintage Vibe h/bucker sized "CCRider" model. Essentially a Charlie Christian blade type p/up made for h/bucker routing. Haven't tried one myself (I'd love to though),but one of our forum colleagues vinlander has modified his Epi Emp Regent, very nicely, with one of them.

Perhaps you could PM him for the lowdown.

Humbucker-size Blade Style Single Coil Pickups

I second that. I have the HCC with Alnico II magnets in two of my guitars and like it very much - no incentive whatsoever to swap PUs in those two guitars. A fat sound, but clear at the same time, excellent note separation, also in the bass register. One of the advantages of the HCC (and other Biltoft PUs) is the replacable magnets (Alnico II, III, V and ceramic are the options) so you can easily change the hotness of the PU yourself. Not that I have done that though, Alnico II is just fine for me. The price is reasonable.

[ruger9]

VV is my custom option, the stock CCs seem to be wound more on the hot/P90 side.... but yes, if I call a winder it will likely be Pete.

I'm looking for any "stock" options that might be currently available first...

Those Fralins in the vid above are very nice, but still pretty darned warm for my needs... my guitar is warm to begin with, certainly warmer than a 336.... I think I need something much clearer than the P-92...

[entresz]

Bill Lawrence L609 -- in some ways it's quite similar sounding to a Gibson Alnico Staple pickup, but 'sweeter'. Totally noiseless.. I think they're only about $60 and made in the USA. Definitely superb value and an excellent sounding pickup. I'm surprised more people aren't using them. Humbucker sized too. Big, fat, but clear single coil tone with no hum.

The Vintage Vibe CC pickups are superb too, but they still have a fair bit of hum. I've got one on my Godin 5th Avenue and I find keeping the volume control backed off a tad tends to eliminate a large part of the hum. The sound is wonderful though. Mine was a custom order wound with 38 gauge wire, so the DC reistance is very loud, about 3k or so. It lends a slightly acoustic voice to the guitar, but still has a fat warm sound.

[ruger9]

Bill Lawrence L609 -- in some ways it's quite similar sounding to a Gibson Alnico Staple pickup, but 'sweeter'. Totally noiseless.. I think they're only about $60 and made in the USA. Definitely superb value and an excellent sounding pickup. I'm surprised more people aren't using them. Humbucker sized too. Big, fat, but clear single coil tone with no hum.

The Vintage Vibe CC pickups are superb too, but they still have a fair bit of hum. I've got one on my Godin 5th Avenue and I find keeping the volume control backed off a tad tends to eliminate a large part of the hum. The sound is wonderful though. Mine was a custom order wound with 38 gauge wire, so the DC reistance is very loud, about 3k or so. It lends a slightly acoustic voice to the guitar, but still has a fat warm sound.

PLEASE..... tell me more. While the BL sounds cool, the "lends a slightly acoustic voice to the guitar" is EXACTLY what I am after....

[entresz]

Both the BL and the VV have that quality.... the Charlie Christian is a bit darker, but the Bill Lawrence sounds slightly more 'open'. I should mention that the CC on my guitar is a floating pickup, so that would have some effect on the sound. They are both very different in design... the BL is fairly modern design that uses side wound coils to create a noise free single coil sound, while the CC is a very old design (although very innovative in it's adaption as a floater).

The BL is available in several different outputs, the lowest is 1.5H (henries)... I think they go up to about 8H.... for comparison a PAF is about 4H. The ones I have is a 3.6H and a 4.8H (neck, bridge). It's a good balance between fatness and clarity.

You really couldn't go wrong with either- both VV and BL have extremely reasonable prices and make very high quality products.

[ruger9]

Thanks for that.... unfortunately, the BLs only come in black/chrome. That simply won't work on this guitar, natural finish with cream and gold appointments. LOL. But duly noted, and not the first time I have heard raves about BL pickups before....

While I am looking for some kind of "stock" option (the Phat Cat is readily available, and only $75), in the end I may end up calling Pete.... maybe get some underwound CCs, with CREAM instead of white trim....

Still taking suggestions! (I'm "this" close to just ordering a Phat Cat)

[jasonc]

Get a hold of Pete. He can wind you what you want and his prices are great. Tell him what you're after and send him that video and I'd be really surprised if he didn't nail it. I have had him make me a number of custom spec pickups and I've been very pleased with every one. Getting the right pickup the first time keeps you from having to keep swapping and that's definitely worth something. That's a great sounding little Epi in that video ,by the way.

[marcwhy]

Contact Ken at ROADHOUSE PICKUPS He can get you what ya want.

[ruger9]

OK, I know I can call someone for a custom wind. I'm looking for options that are stock, immediately available, if any exist.

A couple of comments from the Seymour Duncan forum guys:

-get the Phat Staple instead of the Phat Cat, it's more clear and jazzy (I have already ordered a Phat Cat to try, and the Phat Staple is still a custom shop option, very expensive (2 of them would cost as much as I paid for the guitar... yes, I got a steal ), and I would go the custom-wound route if I wanted to spend that much money)

-why not just try splitting a humbucker?

.....hmm..... that's not a bad idea. From everything I've learned about the Tone Spectrum pickups (learned here on this forum ), they very low output.... perhaps a split HB would get get closer than any available SC?

So far, I have ordered a Phat Cat, but if I don't like it, I am not decided on where my next stop will be....

[entresz]

a split regular humbucker to me isn't a great sound.... doesn't really sound like a real single coil. I've got coil splitting on a couple guitars... it's good for backing off volume and getting a bit of extra clarity for chords,but it doesn't sound anything like a proper single coil.

A higher inductance Lawrence L609 I think would be a far better value option than a Phat Staple and offer a similar sound, minus the hum. The phat staples are not a cheap pickup at all.

Perhaps something like a Gretsch HiLo-tron pickup might fit the bill. They are very low output (about 2k), but have a really sweet detailed sound. They still sound warm, but have heaps of clarity. TV jones I'm sure would offer something in that vein.

[vinlander]

I will obviously chime in for a VV CC that despite being "custom", for 120$ I don't consider it that expensive (but thats me same price as a Gibson classic 57 where I shop) and I had it within 2.5 weeks all the way to Canada from Hawaii.
It brought the bass strings definition the Regent was lacking with anything tried before.

[Gilpy]

I hope the Phat Cat works out for you. I have used one in the neck position of several guitars and have found it to not be muddy, with a sweet sound.

Another pickup worth trying is the DiMarzio "Humbucker from Hell" which, despite it's name, has a very clear clean sound in the neck position.

[ruger9]

I hope the Phat Cat works out for you. I have used one in the neck position of several guitars and have found it to not be muddy, with a sweet sound.

.

Were these full hollowbodies (I hope)?

[ruger9]

After reading more forum reccs (I asked in 2 other forums: Gear Page and Seymour Duncan), and doing some more reading, while I have a Phat Cat on the way, I have narrowed it down to these:

Fralin Twangbanger "clearer than P-92, sounds like Alnico V rods" (which is like a staple or dearmond). Gold covers!

Vintage Vibe H-CC (I would call Pete for a custom low wind, maybe even show him the video above)... they are black, but if pete can do cream trim, that would work with my guitar aesthetic.

Surf 90s -they are so cheap, and people do seem to like them, maybe worth a shot... the Mean90s would sound really good in a solidbody, that are just too beefy and fat for this hollowbody (in the neck anyway, the bridge is great)


I've also ruled out a few due to cost: SD custom shop staples, Bare Knuckle Manhattan (man that one sounds awesome), Humbucker From Hell (I want a tradtional gold cover, but the description of "almost single coil" sounds alot like what I'm after), and the Bill Lawrence L609- they don't do gold, apparently. Pickups are black. Not going to work for me.

[gingataff]

Bartoloni 1cta is very flat and almost single coilish
Or maybe a humbucker wired in parallel?

[D.G.]

I feel you on the desire for gold covers! Those Fralin Twangbuckers and P-92's are really tempting. I finally decided on a Duncan P-rail for my Eastman 403 -- mainly because I was afraid that any humbucker was going to have mud on the low E string. I have experience with the P-rail and know that the p-90 setting is fabulous, giving me the piano-like low E string I crave and also the parallel setting is as clean a humbucker tone as I've ever experienced, and is perfectly usable in a gig setting where the power might be too noisy for the p-90. Though to be honest, the low E string is still a bit muddy in the parallel setting.

[ruger9]

Having slept on it, even tho my Phat Cat arrives today, I think I'm going to go ahead an order a Twangmaster, with the least amount of turns on it.... and if I like IT, I'll get one for the bridge as well, but wound hotter. The bridge pup wouldn't be used for jazzy/swing stuff, more for rockabilly.

[ruger9]

[keep in mind, these "results" are from THIS GUITAR- a dark sounding, 17" laminated spruce top full hollowbody Epi Broadway]


Phat Cat = FAIL


It honestly doesn't sound much different than the Mean 90. A little more refined maybe, does better at going from "clean to mean" with pick attack, but in this guitar, maybe 10% less dark than the Mean 90. If I wanted that "warm jazz tone" alot of people seek, this would be a nice pickup for it (but then so was the Mean 90).


I think my next stop will be the Fralin Twangmaster, 8000 winds.

[entresz]

Yeah sounds like something with Alnico poles would be the way to go. The beauty of that kind of pickup is that the extra high end bite can be tamed to sound almost like a normal pickup just by using the tone control .

[ruger9]

oh, and since I have to pay "cash" for the Fralins, and they will take awhile to get here.... I went ahead and ordered a Surf 90 as well

[TheGrandWazoo]

Please post your impressions of the surf90 when you can. I have stock Dynas on my 6193 Country Club which sound great but I've always wondered if the surf 90 would be an improvement. I prefer a deadened sound over a bright one which the stock seems to provide.