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Took my Gibson 335 (it's about 8 years old) to my guitar tech because it wasn't playing, sounding or feeling right. He had done set-ups on it in the past. When I went the other day he told me to get rid of it and look for another one because the truss rod was as tight as it would go. He said he wasn't comfortable trying to tighten it anymore because he was afraid it would snap..
I was wondering if anyone out there has had a similar issue. thanks
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07-10-2014 09:09 AM
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My first instinct is to distrust the tech's assessment, which may be entirely unfair, but bear with me:
How is the relief currently set? Fret an "F" on the lowest string, first fret, with your left index finger. With your right hand ring finger, press on the same string, 14th fret. Now examine the distance between the string and the frets around 5-8. There should be a wee bit of clearance, and if gently touched with your right hand index finger, the string should lightly bounce on the frets.
If the string is touching frets 5-8 without your help, there is not enough relief, and the truss rod should be loosened - not tightened.
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Did you buy it new? If so I would contact Gibson. Rick
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Get a second opinion.
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These days, it's very common to adjust the neck for no relief. Many players, including myself, like the neck as close to dead-straight as possible.
If your trussrod won't move enough to set the relief where you like it, then the standard fix is to remove the frets, level the fretboard surface, then replace the frets. It's routine, but not cheap. Not cheap, but cheaper than a new guitar.
The workaround is lighter guage strings.
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thanks for the help guys....I bought it used, I think it's a 2002. The guitar tech I bring it too is well known and respected where I live in Ocean County NJ (though sometimes that doesn't mean anything). He had worked on the guitar before, and when he opened the truss rod cover said right away that "oh I worked on this before" and when he tried to tighten it he was concerned about snapping the truss rod because it was as tight as it would go and didn't want to force it. Whatever little bit he was able to tighten should be good for now he said, but he said trade it in at Guitar Center for another one, asap...
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Originally Posted by fireman12engine
This is very common issue.
Looks like your tech isn't very knowledgeable.
HTH,
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I'm still not taking it at face value. Did you try what I suggested or are you just relying blindly on the tech's opinion?
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There are times when there isn't a lot of meat on the neck at that point, so I'd be reluctant to open the channel up, or there are times when it's apparent that there are wood twists or actual warp issues on a neck that long. That is also not uncommon. Sco's original 335 which he loved had serious neck issues. It was going to be a real project to get it back and he got the Ibanez endorsement around that time. But he loved that guitar. It was not a simple job and not a matter of simply rethreading.
It may be that simple, but when you're dealing with the idiosyncacies of uncooperative wood, it really is a matter of individual cases. It's not good to make sweeping pronouncements on a luthier's skill or the ease of a quick fix if you haven't really seen the instrument. That's what I think anyway.
There've been times I've dealt with a wonky rod, a bad neck, a neck with a bad twist, a hump, a dip and there have been times I've rethreaded, refretted, leveled a fingerboard, heat treated and reset a neck, and yes, advised an owner to consider looking for a new guitar.
Yeah maybe to their friends I'm a hack like that luthier has just become, but I'd tend to explore the issue further (good advice on second opinions) and be prepared for the possibility that serious work would need to be done in the case of bad wood.
Just to be fair. Eh?
David
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I will try it later when I can get to the guitar, Originally Posted by rpguitar
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That's a great video, thanks !! Always like Dan's column in Guitar Player.
Being from central Jersey I was curious who your guitar tech is...
Mike from Scenic Jackson, NJ
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Paul Unkert from toms river Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ
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Too many assumptions by too many people who weren't there and haven't seen the guitar. I'd suggest that people stop bad mouthing the tech based on nothing but a few comments on a message board. He may be knowledgabe or he may not but you can't know that just from what's been said here.
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It's not that I don't trust him, I was just wondering if anyone else had a similar problem. I was tossing and turning all night thinking about it and what am I going to do...lol Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
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Not bad mouthing, just suggesting some due diligence. When one asks for advice on a forum, that's what one gets. Relying on another person to set up one's instruments is an inherently compromised practice.
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What's the cost of a second opinion? D'Angelo Guitars | Fair Lawn, NJ 07410
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Yes, I have. I have noticed over the years that, as a generalisation, Gibson truss rod adjustment can be very tricky. Usually there is only a quarter or eighth turn between straight-enough-with-little-relief, and too tight, with the brass nut getting close to shearing. It takes a lot of experience to tell, and I can understand your tech's caution. I have had a couple of new Gibsons where it was impossible to get the neck straight, as it went into an S-bend before coming straight. In those cases, fingerboard or, at least, fret work is required.
I've found modern Gibsons worse in this respect; the few 50s/ 60s ones I have adjusted seem to have more travel available. One trick from Dan Erlewine is to carefully clamp the neck into a slight back-bow, and then adjust the truss rod with some strain taken off it by the clamping. Still, I'd imagine your tech will know about this
Other brands eg Guild, Ibanez, seem far less sensitive to truss nut increments and adjust easily and quickly.
It surprises me that more of us don't learn to do our own truss-rod set-ups; I'd rather do it that trust some techs I've met. NB not saying that about the OP's tech., necessarily.
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Do you mean he had worked on the guitar before you owned it? Originally Posted by fireman12engine
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I wasn't bad mouthing the tech. I was asking who because I had a very nice Alvarez Yairi DY96 from 1985, last year it was made. Got it during Hurricane Sandy on eBay at a really low price. It had one mod, the seller didn't like the pick guard and had his tech put a big Travis style pick guard over it, the type of sticky backed pick guard material you can get at Stew Mac that supposedly came off easy. After having the guitar a year I decided I wanted to put it back stock. Took it to my trusty tech CJ at his shop/repair school
http://repairguitar.com
He's on Route 9, he'll give you a quick look, nice fellow if you understand under his sort of gruff exterior is a really decent guy trying to make a living. We tried taking a little swipe at it and it wasn't budging. He said he'd get it off but likely might need a little refin work on the top, shooting the top with nitro to make it look right. I opted to get a 2nd opinion from a guitar seller I know who has lots of connections in the business. The tech he suggested was in Point Pleasant, being very busy with all the Hurricane Sandy related repairs... Eventually I sold it to my seller friend and he flipped it. I got out of it what I paid for it. I'm still looking for one from the mid 70s that is totally stock. Holy Grail Dread...
Here's what it SHOULD look like, originally all the pick guards were cut from the same block of Jacaranda, then in '85 (the last year made) it went to ebony cut like this
This is what it looked like with the Stew Mac guard on it
Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 07-10-2014 at 11:38 AM.
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That was in the back of my mind. Did he give the same piece of advice to its previous owner? And is this going to be like groundshog day? Same ES335, same luthier, same advice, different owner each time? Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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Who is Paul Unkert? Former EVH guitar builder.
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yes that's Paul Unkert. He didn't work on it before I had it but after I had bought it... Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
I trust him in what he said, it just was stressing me out about what to do with the guitar now
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I've had quite a few Gibsons ... and I've had the experience of loosening a truss rod a little, letting the guitar sit around on a stand for a few days, and reevaluating the guitar to find the humidity/dryness and heat/ coolness had subtly allowed the neck to relax a little and give me the truss rod leeway I needed. Can't hurt to try that ... AND get a second opinion. My tech/ luthier passed away a few years ago, but his set-ups were legendary. Henri Besancon, Southern California. He could fix anything.
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Take a deep breath and step away from the ES335 for a moment. Then seek a second opinion. Paul has a good reputation but a second opinion from another experienced luthier may help. Originally Posted by fireman12engine
The question is not whether it can be fixed. The question is how much you would have to fork out to get it fixed. So, it is really the question of money and whether you are throwing good money after bad.
Trading it in with full disclosure of the issue as diagnosed by Paul Unkert isn't going to help you get market value for it either. Trading it in without full disclosure merely passes the problem on to the next guy.
Maybe sell it to someone who lives in a tropical clime?
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Has a washer been fitted behind the truss rod nut yet? How much relief does the neck have at the 7th fret with the nut tightened up? Is a bad rising tongue contributing to the problem? Has the guitar been refretted in the past? Some more information is in order here. I suspect you'll be able to get rid of all the excess relief with a refret. If you like the guitar and want to make it highly playable it's time to take it to someone who specialized in fretwork for a second opinion.
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