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I'm in the market for a new archtop and would like to get as close as possible to the classic L5 sound (classic Wes, or Peter Bernstein on "Earth Tones"). We all know nothing but an L5 really sounds like an L5, but what's the closest I could do for under $2500 (new or used)?
Caveat: I know there are tons of guitars that are L5-like from a spec perspective (i.e. carved spruce top, 17", ebony FB, etc.), i.e. Eastman, but in my experience similarity in specs does not translate to similarity in tone--I'd like to hear about personal experiences with guitars that sound similar to L5s rather than "check out X, it has similar specs..."
Input much appreciated. Thanks.
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06-06-2014 07:22 PM
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My first thought would be Heritage, since they are built on the same basic designs. I'm not sure how much the Eagles go for these days, though, so they might be way out of your price range.
The Epiphone Broadway copy is not a bad guitar. I have a Washburn J6. They're both kind of cheap simulations, and they sound it.
I'm not really aware of what's out that there is "L5ish" in the 1-2K range.
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Heritage Eagles seem to be in the $3500 range...
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What about the new Guild offerings? Classic.
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The more years I spend playing and around players, the more I come to believe that while there is an ideal sound that comes from an instrument, a specific instrument like an L5, there's a lot of myth that it is really heavily based on a specific instrument alone. I'd look for an instrument to get me into the ball park and leave a lot of room for modding and ...practicing your touch and feel.
For under 2 grand it's not going to be so obvious, and solid spruce does have a warmth to it. But a spruce laminate full hollow instrument, Gibson PAF pickups or Duncan Antiquities swapped out, flat wound strings-good flatwounds-and a warm amp can get you a sound like what I imagine the "classic jazz" sound is. But I don't really know an L-5 sound to be honest. I think if Wes played a broken in Eastman with a Gibson PAF pickup in it, you'd be suprized. Especially playing with HIS thumb. I think if Kenny Burrell played an Ibanez Joe Pass with an old PAF in it, he'd know how to get L-5 out of it.
People work their whole lives to get a sound. They begin with an instrument because they feel good on it and they acquire a touch on it. But it's not all in the hardware. Don't discount the fact that you have to get that "L-5" sound in your hands. You pick a green L-5 off the wall of Guitar Center and you don't have your own sound, it could be disappointing.
If this is a non answer, I'm sorry. I've seen so many good players get million dollar sound out of 1 grand of guitar. I've played new 20,000 guitar that took a lot of work to get good sound from. Good pickups, good set up and an instrument that will make it irresistible to stop playing. That's my step one.
Blasphemy I know. I'm sorry.
David
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It's a non-answer.
Originally Posted by TruthHertz
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Which are those? Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack
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The only Guitars in my experience that sounds like a Gibson L-5CES is the Gibson L-5CES. Mark Campellone makes the closest guitars in construction to the Gibson L-5. Most of the newer archtops (solid,carved) are built w/ thinner tops and backs to produce a brighter acoustic response. I own 2 Eastmans 810CE (floating KA p/up) and a 803 CE w/ a built in KA neck humbucker. Both of these are extremely light weight and build in comparison to the Gibsons, and also have 25" scale vs.25&1/2" scale length. I will say between what I have invested and how well these guitars sound and play I'm very happy and feel that I can get almost any archtop tone I'm after. If $$$ was no object I'd own one the newer Gibson L-5CES Thinlines and a Lee Ritenouer L-5 smaller 15&1/2" floater aswell. But your talking around Minumum$18k -25k.
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https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/sale/...condition.html This is as close as you will probably get in the $2500 price range, and that's a good deal since they usually run around $5k
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Used Eagles seem to be at the bottom of the market. I've seen them for between $1500 and $2000 USD. I got a Mahogany Eagle for $1500 in great shape.
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Terada-made Epiphone Broadway Elite/Elitist. Change out the tailpiece for an L-4CES or ES-175 type and you are nearly there.
Gibson L-5 Studio. Remember that one? An L5CES without the bling and binding. (Sellers are asking sh*t high prices for an L5 Studio these days but I have seen them sell for below $2900.)
Gibson L-4CES. 16" lower bout, Hog neck, and shorter scale length but close enough that you have got to be a damn nitpicker or pedant to object.
Gibson Tal Farlow. 17" lower bout, rosewood fingerboard, 25.5" scale length, maple necked and laminated body. Could be fooled with a little bit of EQ.
These can all be found used for between $2400 and $3000 with the Terada Broadway between $1600 and $2000.Last edited by MarkRhodes; 06-07-2014 at 09:41 AM. Reason: language
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You could also check out the Guild X-700. Don't have too much experience with those but a pickup swap to Gibson Classic 57s or some boutique clones could take you there. Under $3000 used plus $350 for a pair of boutiques.....Probably not within your budget.
Guild X-500. Under $2500.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 06-07-2014 at 03:34 AM.
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A guitar with 25.5" scale and the PU placed close to the neck (under the imaginary 24th fret) should get you in the ballpark (though not completely there). Say, the 175 has the neck PU placed closer to the bridge than the L5 - or the L4. The difference in PU placement is part of the reason for the difference in sound between a 175 and an L4 or an L5.
Last edited by oldane; 06-07-2014 at 03:42 AM.
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Definitely Gibson L5 Studio,if you can find one.
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Easy
Guild X-700. One just sold in the U:S for $2500 and it was mint.
I've got one and it plays and sounds exactly like the average L5. Wes for days!!
I also have a solid carved top Ibanez FA-800 which is very L5 like, probably more JS like TBH
To answer some of the suggestions here.
I would say NO! to the Elitist/elite options. None of them will really do. I owned A Broadway Elitist and it was dull. They also have pressed laminate tops.
I'm sure there must be an Eastmen that does the job but I can't ever find one I'm that impressed with. They always feel and sound so stiff to me.
Im actually putting together a photo shoot this weekend of 4 different L5 archtops. All coming in your price range
Aria PE-180
Ibanez FA-800
Guild X-700
Gibson Es350T
I will also do sound clips, so you can make out the difference in tone between the guitars.
SO guitars you would like but could be heard to find.
Ibanez Fa-800 (Very Rare but worth every penny)
Ibanez FA-700 (Very rare but worth getting. Essentially a twin mounted version of the 800).
Guild X-700 (ironically these sell for less than the X-500's for some reason)
Guild x-500 (is actually a laminate top, but they are the closest thing you can get to an L5 in the laminate world IMO)
Heritage Eagle
Second Hand Gibson L7Last edited by GoergeBenson; 06-07-2014 at 06:15 AM.
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Very soon you will have all exsisting guitars on your list,but if you really want a Gibson sound,buy Gibson.The only model in your price range(if you are lucky to find one) is L5 Studio.I've owned L5 Studio and Guild X700 at the same time.Different animals.
Check out Mark Whitfield playing L5 Studio on YouTube
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You're saying that I'm...W-R-ONG...., GB? Originally Posted by GoergeBenson
Yo momma wears combat boots. Yo poppa so [DEL]gay[/DEL] ebullient when he steps out into the garden the fairies come out to greet him. Yo momma so ugly Gianni made her the emblem of Versace.
The Terada Epi Broadway Elite/Elitist isn't so bad for $1600. Swap out the pups. Change the pots and wiring harness. Change the TOM saddles to voice it. Yeah, top is pressed spruce. The other choice is the seldom seen MiC Ibanez SJ500. Under $1400 new. Pressed spruce laminate.
C'mon. Waiting for your Momma comebacks. Just messing with ya.
Last edited by Jabberwocky; 06-07-2014 at 08:44 AM.
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Yo Mummas so dumb, she keeps a ruler next to the bed, to see how long she sleeps in.
That works on two levels because your mums not only thick, she's also lazy
The epi has a very thin layer of spruce glued to the soundboard. Technically that makes it a laminate!
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That's a great comeback!
Yeah, but the thinner supporting spruce layer runs in the same grain direction as the thicker top layer. Not exactly plywood in that sense with perpendicular grain.
Yo momma so dumb she mistook my poppa for your poppa so that makes my poppa your poppa too, brother.
Boooo! Hisssssss! Handbags at dawn.
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But I do agree: the Guild X-700 is a great choice if the OP can find one. As is the Gibson L5 Studio.
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your moms is so cockeyed she dropped a dime a picked up two nickels
(you can also seek out an older 80s or 90s mij epiphone, too, not just the more recent elitist models. i've seen some go under 1k, but not often.)
a guild should do, too.
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The L5 Studio is a great option but I haven't seen one for sale for years--let me know if you know of one available!
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I just came across this interesting set of videos comparing a bunch of jazzboxes, including an L5:
Makis Ablianitis - YouTube
They were apparently all recorded at the same time, with the same amp settings and the same strings, and all feature the same song so you definitely get a feel for how they all compare.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, the Heritage Golden Eagle is probably the closest sounding--it's borderline indistinguishable from the L5. In this context you can really hear how poorly something like one of the laminated D'Angelicos (which are nevertheless very nice guitars for the price) compares to the carved tops.
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The best . . possibly the only way to get an L5CES sound for under $2,500 . . . is to buy a Wes Montgomery or Louis Stewart CD for under $20.
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