Floating pickup - Bartolini vs Benedetto

[jazzfreak]

Bartolini vs Benedetto. Any thoughts?

[DRS]

I asked a similar question a month ago and the majority felt that Bartolini and Benedetto were both comparable and better than the Kent Armstrong Handwound.

[iim7V7IM7]

Not everyone concurred with that opinion....:-)

I asked a similar question a month ago and the majority felt that Bartolini and Benedetto were both comparable and better than the Kent Armstrong Handwound.

[vinlander]

During the process of getting a better tone out of my Epi Regent, the Bartolini 5J I tried was a good articulated pickup that was an upgrade to the Korean Kent Armstrong it was equipped with; can't tell about the handwound version though. I guess on a better quality acoustic archtop (preferably carved top) the difference might have been greater

[PTChristopher2]

>>> the majority felt that Bartolini and Benedetto were both comparable and better than the Kent Armstrong Handwound.

Wow. I missed that thread.

In my (apparently dissenting) opinion: The Benedetto S-6 has a great sound but a significant flaw. The B string is over compensated (to weaken the B signal), and it really is unfortunate on an otherwise fine-sounding PU.

To my ears, the Bartolini is noticeably brighter/thinner than the S6. But I have only played existing Bartolini installs, where I have have installed S-6 and KA pickups. So I had a chance to move the PU to optimize (in my opinion) the sound. So the Bartolini could quite possibly have sounded better with a bit closer proximity to the strings.

In my opinion the KA "12 pole" is 'deus ex magnetica' for floaters. Full, clear, articulate (meaning it picks up what you play including subtle effects), very adjustable, thin enough for almost all guitars, makes food taste better, and I swear I can do more pushups after playing one,...

If one wonders what would happen if you could have a PAF sound with an acoustically clear edge, then the 12-pole floater can answer the question. You gots your fingerstyle clarity, your smooth thick-pick solos, your full comp voice with just a bit more clarity if you want it.

I wish the S-6 did not have the goofy-B. The narrower sample area along the string, on what is a fairly fat floater, is a great combination of effects.

Anyway, all the best to the reported majority.

Chris

[xuoham]

In my opinion the KA "12 pole" is 'deus ex magnetica' for floaters. Full, clear, articulate (meaning it picks up what you play including subtle effects), very adjustable, thin enough for almost all guitars, makes food taste better, and I swear I can do more pushups after playing one,...

If one wonders what would happen if you could have a PAF sound with an acoustically clear edge, then the 12-pole floater can answer the question. You gots your fingerstyle clarity, your smooth thick-pick solos, your full comp voice with just a bit more clarity if you want it.

My opinion too, exactly.

[iim7V7IM7]

I concur with your sonic description of the KA 12-pole floater...

[PTChristopher2]

On further thought, my comments on the Bartolini are really based on considerably less experience with that PU vs. the other two. So they may not be similar to some sort of broadly-held idea of reasonable interpretation.

[Klatu]

>>> In my opinion the KA "12 pole" is 'deus ex magnetica' for floaters. Full, clear, articulate (meaning it picks up what you play including subtle effects), very adjustable, thin enough for almost all guitars, makes food taste better, and I swear I can do more pushups after playing one,...

Yet another entertaining post. Thanks.

I don't know enough about the pickups mentioned to provide an informed opinion, but I would buy the KA 12 pole simply for the adjustability. There are certain amps and rooms where my carved top jazz box feeds back too quickly if the bass at full throttle. Having the option of adjustability allows me to lower the pole pieces in the bass so that I can set the amp with enough bass so that the treble strings are thick enough while preventing a good deal of unwanted feedback.

[iim7V7IM7]

Exactly...you are relying on the finger rest as a structural member to ensure how parallel the PU is with the strings. Having the micro-adjustment of the pole pieces is a helpful feature in dialing in ones tone.

Yet another entertaining post. Thanks.

I don't know enough about the pickups mentioned to provide an informed opinion, but I would buy the KA 12 pole simply for the adjustability. There are certain amps and rooms where my carved top jazz box feeds back too quickly if the bass at full throttle. Having the option of adjustability allows me to lower the pole pieces in the bass so that I can set the amp with enough bass so that the treble strings are thick enough while preventing a good deal of unwanted feedback.

[jazzfreak]

Thanks to everyone for your insight and input. This is such a great resource! Actually, the guitar is a no-name, Eastman knock-off, laminated archtop with a Wilkinson single floater that I got on Ebay. Actually, has a pretty nice sound, as is. So, I would think anything I chose would be an upgrade. I'll definitely look at the KA-12

[xuoham]

... the guitar is a no-name, Eastman knock-off, laminated archtop with a Wilkinson single floater that I got on Ebay. Actually, has a pretty nice sound, as is...

Could it be a Yunzhi ?

My archtop is a Yunzhi and i installed a KA 12 poles PAF... everytime i just shed tears of joy<3

[jazzfreak]

It's an Imperial, actually. A google search revealed no information, whatsover. Per the seller, they retailed for $1,000. I'm pleased with it - enough to consider doing some upgrades - new PU and tuners. I have Thomastik-Infeld Swing 13's on it.

[feet]

i have the regular old flat bar style kent armstrong (usa) and i like it very much. was not aware that it sucked compared to the bartolini and benedetto until this thread came up. i don't doubt the other two are quality pups- i think seymour duncan makes the bennys and i had a bartolini tuck andress pup in a sheraton at one point and it worked just fine.

as for the kent, i wish it had a little adjustment capability, as i think the little string is a little strong, but i don't like 12-pole pups, visually. they just look wrong (filtertrons aside). hope i get past that one day. :/

[PTChristopher2]

>>> as for the kent, i wish it had a little adjustment capability, as i think the little string is a little strong, but i don't like 12-pole pups, visually. they just look wrong (filtertrons aside). hope i get past that one day. :/

Well yeah. If you want adjustment capability, you may end up with screws.

In my opinion the adjustable poles are nice, but hardly the primary feature of the PU in question.

The broader sampling area along the strings provides a familiar "PAF" fullness that you can not seem to get via more windings on a normal "Johnny Smith" size PU body.

To clarify: There are several KA pickups with 12 poles. The one I mention is only this one:

* WD Music Products - KENT ARMSTRONG® HANDWOUND PAF- RESIN CAST-12 POLE SIDE MOUNT – BLACK - BLACK

If I hated the 12 pole PU look, I would just turn the screws upside down and lay an ebony veneer on top. So that way I can still drop a pole or two but have a different look that may be more pleasing to some.

But I like the stock setup just fine. I do wish the tab was bigger, but I have not had one fall off a PG, so go figure.

Chris

[Patrick2]

I asked a similar question a month ago and the majority felt that Bartolini and Benedetto were both comparable and better than the Kent Armstrong Handwound.

Kent Armstrong made the Benedetto pups for quite a while. Then he lost the business to either Duncan or Dimarzio . . . (I forget with of the two he said he lost the business to).

[Patrick2]

>>> as for the kent, i wish it had a little adjustment capability, as i think the little string is a little strong, but i don't like 12-pole pups, visually. they just look wrong (filtertrons aside). hope i get past that one day. :/

Well yeah. If you want adjustment capability, you may end up with screws.

In my opinion the adjustable poles are nice, but hardly the primary feature of the PU in question.

The broader sampling area along the strings provides a familiar "PAF" fullness that you can not seem to get via more windings on a normal "Johnny Smith" size PU body.

To clarify: There are several KA pickups with 12 poles. The one I mention is only this one:

* WD Music Products - KENT ARMSTRONG® HANDWOUND PAF- RESIN CAST-12 POLE SIDE MOUNT – BLACK - BLACK

If I hated the 12 pole PU look, I would just turn the screws upside down and lay an ebony veneer on top. So that way I can still drop a pole or two but have a different look that may be more pleasing to some.

But I like the stock setup just fine. I do wish the tab was bigger, but I have not had one fall off a PG, so go figure.

Chris

I have the single coli version of that pup on my newest arch top. Can't say enough good things about it.

[jorgemg1984]

Sorry to derail this thread but that's a beautiful guitar Patrick... an Heritage? Do you have more pics? I am getting my signature model done soon and I would like to show that guitar to my luthier for ideas. Thanks!

[jorgemg1984]

Nevermind Patrick, just saw the photobucket.

[allanploth]

Hand-wired Kent Arnstrong floating mini-humbucker is a thing of beauty. I had one in an Epiphone E Regent, and it was a whole new instrument. Detail and dynamics, gorgeous tone. $180 or so, worth every penny and more, IMO.

[PTChristopher2]

I just want to make sure that we do not get lost (or rather that my un-interesting opinion is not grouped into) a wave of brand-love.

My lofty opinion of the KA 12 pole resin-cast PAF floating PU is genuine. But I do not think it has anything to do with the brand name, the hand-made-ed-ness, any association with the USA, or any other aspect beyond the simple configuration of wire, magnets, screws, and plastic.

I mean this PU:

* WD Music Products - KENT ARMSTRONG® HANDWOUND PAF- RESIN CAST-12 POLE SIDE MOUNT – BLACK - BLACK

In my opinion, there is a significant effect based on the morphology of a PU - very much NOT measured by its "DC resistance" or magnetic strength.

In my opinion, this PU samples a sufficiently longer length of the string to differentiate itself from the majority of mini-HB size floaters. This may well be correctly credited to KA as a design element.

Chris

[Spook410]

,,no-name, Eastman knock-off, laminated archtop with a Wilkinson single floater

Ahh.. Wilkinson. I have 4 or 5 laying about. I tried to give them to the Salvation Army Thrift shop but they wouldn't take them. Something about having a reputation to consider. It will be a good upgrade to the guitar to be rid of them no matter what you choose.

I'm a big fan of the KA 12 pole. They are a PIA to install. The tab is short and thick you run the risk of hitting wires when you drill and tap them. With a depth of experience and some insight you could use glue, but I found myself adjusting and re-adjusting so many times I was better off with the bolt on approach.

That being said, if I were running flatwound strings on a laminate top guitar, I think I would likely go with something more akin to a floating version of a Gibson 57 humbucker. If you're going for the electric jazz sound (more or less anyway), seems that would work nicely while being cheaper and easier.

Got a picture of your new guitar?

[PTChristopher2]

>>> I would likely go with something more akin to a floating version of a Gibson 57 humbucker.

I think the issue there is that there is quite a bit of mass (and height) in a standard HB that makes it tough to cantilever off a pickguard.

The KA PAF in question throws out the relatively useless height and metal and gives you a thin light PU.

In my opinion.

Chris

[Spook410]

>>> I would likely go with something more akin to a floating version of a Gibson 57 humbucker.

I think the issue there is that there is quite a bit of mass (and height) in a standard HB that makes it tough to cantilever off a pickguard.

The KA PAF in question throws out the relatively useless height and metal and gives you a thin light PU.

In my opinion.

Chris

Isn't there something out there that sounds like a classic humbucker but in a format suitable for a pickguard or neck mount?

[Woody Sound]

I replaced the cheap pickup on my Japanese D'Aquisto with the KA hand made 12 pole. Also made a pickguard to match. Mine attaches to the end of the fingerboard, not the pickguard. This pickup sounds glorious.