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Hello friends,
If it's okay, I'd like to seek advice here. I recently brought my Peerless Monarch to a local, highly recommended, tech to get set up. I was (only somewhat) unhappy with the guitar's playability up around the 12th fret and higher (especially the low strings).
The tech filed the nut a bit (I'm using fairly heavy strings), adjusted the relief on the neck a bit, and lowered the height of the bridge somewhat. He also said that he did some simple work on the frets (I'm sorry, but I don't remember exactly what he said ... smoothing and polishing???).
When I brought it home it struck me quite strongly that the Low E and A strings sounded muted ... almost as if I was muffling it with my palm ... or else the strings were *really* old. I brought it back, but the guy insisted that it was a clean sound and it was just the nature of the flatwound strings that we put on. The problem is that I've used these string very often in the past (though not immediately before the set up) and on the contrary always found them rather bright for flats (Thomastik Swings).
So I have a few questions for folks here: first and most important, is there something that he might have done that could have caused this (the fret work perhaps)? I don't hear any buzzing, so I'm a bit perplexed. It could be that he's right: I'm imagining it (after all, he's a professional, and I'm just a high school Latin teacher).
The second question is what to do. Should I put a new set of strings on it and see if it really is just the nature of the strings? This seems a bit crazy since I've used these strings before and liked them very much. Should I take it to a different tech and see if he can give me some insight (yes, I'm imagining it, or no this guy messed it up)?
Thanks very much for any insight!
Brian
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04-24-2014 10:18 PM
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> When I brought it home it struck me quite strongly that the Low E and A strings sounded muted ...
> almost as if I was muffling it with my palm
I meant to say fretted notes, not open strings. BB
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Do you experience the "muted" sound only when the open E and A strings are plucked ? If so then the nut has been filed a bit too low. Check this by loosening the strings and inserting a small scrap of paper between the strings and the bottom of the slot in the nut then bring the strings back to pitch. If the muted sound clears up you've found the problem.
There are other possibilities related to truss rod and bridge adjustment. You may want to try adjusting it yourself (it's not complicated) or at least get an understanding of the process. Download and take a look at chapter 34:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sutb3baaajypfzp/5jAs6MErWU
Cheers,
randyc
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All sorts of things may have gone wrong. He may have not shaped the grooves in the bridge properly (they have to be very shallow, and the width shouldn't be too wide in relation to the string.) The strings may have gone dead.
I would get a set of good roundwounds in the exact same gauge as the flatwounds, and put them on. If the guitar sounds OK, it was the strings; if not, take it back and say, "Fix this, it's not the Flatwounds ..."
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The nut filed too low can and will only affect the open strings, as soon as you fret a note on those strings the nut becomes irrelevant. Adjusting the relief in the neck and adjusting the bridge isn't going to cure 2 dead strings (as you explain it's not fowling on the frets) - changing the strings are your best plan of action.
Originally Posted by randyc
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Has the pickup height been adjusted after the setup? it could possibly be a bit low on the bass side although it would have to be quite low for the strings to sound muted, I'd go with changing the strings and see if it cures it.
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> I would get a set of good roundwounds in the exact same gauge as the flatwounds, and put them on.
> If the guitar sounds OK, it was the strings; if not, take it back and say, "Fix this, it's not the Flatwounds ..."
Yes, that's exactly what I'm going to do. Many thanks to all!
Brian
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A change of action can have a profound effect. Most of the time not so noticeable but if the angle that the strings broke over the bridge was critical, and the clarity at low action was not good, the raised action may have been the quick fix that the lowering revealed. There may be resonances in the plates that have phase issues at those frequencies... It's really hard to tell in a forum chat.
I've seen similar things, and from different causes. Angle of cut on the saddle... wood resonance... bad strings... inadequate neck angle... bad height adjustment roller... bad chalk fit of the bridge foot to the top... and the list does go on. Do you have a luthier in the area?
David
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They still teach Latin in high school?!
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Si Originally Posted by Jehu
David
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I had elexir strings on a guitar, where the coating started to loosen from the D-string. This coating then started to shortcircuit the vibration, between the string and the frets. It was getting the same sound as when fat fingers is to close to string that is pressed at a lower fret.
Also have look at the connection between the foot of the bridge and the guitar top.
Is the tone muted in both sustained tones and in the percussive initial part.
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Hmmm, thought that was what I said - Originally Posted by Foulds Jazz Guitars
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Waiting for a result from what you tested. This improves the value of the thread.
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It was- I missed it - sorry! Originally Posted by randyc
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I suspect the problem is with the nut - as many have already suggested. Put a capo on and test the low A and E strings. If they sound ok, then the problem is with the nut.
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I think you have either knackered strings or a flat groove on the saddle.
I've had TI's knacker on a brass saddle which I think is due to
- Extreme break angle behind the saddle which leads to;
- Round string core cutting into flat soft nickel wrap:
But more than likely the string groove on the saddle is filed parallel to a mid point of the guitar neck.
When a string is plucked it vibrates along its length between two points as well as a wave. On a low action guitar you get a slight rattle against the fret tops after the initial pluck of the string, this is the wave returning from the nut/fret and rattling at a mid point.
The frets are crowned to a point as should a saddle, but I believe their seems to be a flatness to the groove on the saddle, so when the string is plucked and that vibration and wave returns to the saddle it doesn't have a point but a channel-which disturbs the tone of the string when fretted. This channel will have a gap thinner than half the thickness of a human hair.
If you fret the strings at, say, the 20th fret does the muted sound disappear?
The groove at the saddle should be no less than 7 degrees from flat.
Has the Bridge been flipped the wrong way? So the point at which the strings break to is at the back facing the tailpiece?
Or your strings are knackered.
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You say the tech lowered the bridge, it's possible he has lowered it too far on the bass side, the closer the bass strings are to the frets the more muted sound you get they don't ring as well as they do when higher try raising the bridge on the bass side and see if it makes a difference.
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