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Makes sense that the RC gets a wider range of clean tones. The formula 5f6 does have a good range of clean though, whereas its formula #5 brother does not have any cleans really. Some people, not saying you, confuse the two (formula 5f6 with formula #5).
Originally Posted by petermelton
Last edited by monkmiles; 04-12-2014 at 01:36 PM.
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04-12-2014 01:32 PM
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I use Boss Blues Driver BD-2 as a booster with my tube 15 watt combo.
quite good sound...:-)
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I like your taste in tone! Originally Posted by Eddie Lang
Thanks for the replies so far.
The 5F6 really does look interesting. Too bad the only retailer in Canada is half a continent away... Somebody local has a used Wampler Tweed '57 for sale on Kijiji. I wonder if it'd be similar. Any thoughts?
The RC is tempting too. I didn't think any local store carried them and that is why it was not on my initial list. After visiting the Xotic website, I learned about a store, right here in town, which I didn't know about, and they are a Xotic retailer. I'll have to go and bring an amp and a guitar, unless they have a good return policy, and then I can try it at home with various combinations.
To answer some of your questions, I want the EQ function to be able to shape the tone when I want. Not necessary much and not all the time, because I like what I have in most situations, but sometimes, a little something different would be good.
One sound I'd like to get (yeah, me and many others!) is the rich tone Burrell and Green got from Van Gelder's tweed Deluxe (although I am sure a good part of that sound came as much from the mixing board as it came from the amp).
Kenny Burrell - Kenny's Theme
Susie Arioli featuring Jordan Officer - If Dreams Come True
Kansas City Five - Love Me Or Leave Me (Eddie Durham on elec. guitar)
Nat King Cole - Better Be By Yourself (Oscar Moore)
Slam Stewart Trio - Oh Me, Oh My, Oh Gosh! (John Collins, only four bars from 46 sec.)
Pete Brown - Bellevue For You (Al Casey on guitar)
Hot Club Of Cowtown - Stardust (solo at 2:43)
I very, very recently went looking for this same sort of tone, and I found that the Fender Excelsior Pro amp gives it to me. I know you said you weren't looking for a new amp, but IMHO, that's what it takes.
OTOH, that CB 5F6 also looks really interesting. Think I'll go on down to Pro Guitar Shop (here in downtown Portland) and give one a whirl!
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Maybe good replies, thank you! Keep them coming!
It's interesting how it seems that the Spark has its lovers and detractors, but not many in between.
I'd like to hear some first hand opinions about the MXR Micro Amp + if possible...
The RC Booster definitely sounds tempting. The Formula 5F6 maybe even more so, I am not sure. The thing that makes me hesitate about the 5F6 is that there is no dealer near.
What I should have mentioned is that whichever box I choose will most likely be used only with the JazzKat or the JazzAmp (two very clean SS amps), and probably not with my tube amps.
I guess I've been looking at it via a boost pedal with eq because:
- I want tone shaping, but not an EQ that complex to tweak
- I want a bit of break up when needed
The thing is, I don't need the "boost" (as in "louder") so much because I use a Hilton volume pedal (no pot), but I'd still love to get the eq and the drive in one pedal instead of two.
I've heard good thing about the Barber Barb E.Q., but I think that it stays clean all the way.
Another EQ that I have considered but not heard much about is the Diamond Boost EQ. I think that it stays clean too. Anyone know anything about this one?
Philco, it's funny that you mentioned the Fuchs Plush Valve Job. It is a pedal that I have considered a couple years ago and I though about it again last night. How would that one work in front of a clean SS amp? Depending on what you say, I may end up choosing between this one, the 5F6 and the RC...
After Jorge's comment, I started thinking about an overdrive pedal. Last night I watched videos, and a few caught my attention. There's the Xotic BB Preamp (and the BB Preamp MB -- middle boost) and the Empress Germ Drive, but I fear that they have too much gain for my needs and that they break up much too early. Am I right?
There is also the Voodoo Lab Sparkle. What seems interesting with this one is that is has a Clean knob, but I am not convinced that it will deliver the kind of tone that I am looking for.
I wish somebody would make an analog stompbox that could bring us close to the CC/EH-150/EH-185 tone…
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I really like the OD sounds I get with the Zendrive in front of my Henricksen 10 Convertible. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
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I don't think I can definitively say. Even though I have a Mambo SS amp I have to say that all my experimentation has been with the Fender DRRI. ………and I've modified that as well…….just the bright cap removed. Originally Posted by Eddie Lang
Philco, it's funny that you mentioned the Fuchs Plush Valve Job. It is a pedal that I have considered a couple years ago and I though about it again last night. How would that one work in front of a clean SS amp? Depending on what you say, I may end up choosing between this one, the 5F6 and the RC...
Look to be honest I like the "straight in sound" of the Mambo but I have not experimented with the pedals. Those 2 amps are like night and day and I have to go back to square one and start building the sound again if I'm going to use the Mambo.
I can honestly say that I have not got the sound you speak of from the Mambo….BUT….I haven't really fanatically gone after it.
I'm loving what I get from the Fender so I'm just playing a lot and enjoying it.
The Fender has such an imposing sonic footprint and at first I fought it……..but I realised that I needed that mid spike and decided to work with it. So now when I plug into the Mambo I miss it.
95% of OD pedals I tried had waaaaaaaaay too much drive. Just way too much. You need a pedal that begins at zero drive. Both the Fuchs and the 5F6 do this…..although the Fuchs is really zero. I think your P90 (if it's the same output as my 1952 175) will clip the 5F6 even on zero…..but that might still be ok.
You really have to try before you buy if possible and there is a method to trying these pedals……..do it slowly and over a couple of days. Don't trust your knee jerk reaction. Come back to it and mess with it. Your ears play tricks when you try something for long periods.
This is just what works for me…start with the pedal on zero and get the overall tone you want. Then roll in a fraction of drive…..and so on and so forth.
We are only talking about a smidgen right?
The rest has got to come from your instrument. No OD will replace whats not in the instrument…..well you know that already. That "body" tone has to come from your guitar.
My next experiment will be with the new Axe FX11. They just released an updated version and when I sell some stuff I will get one….mainly for studio work….but I can't wait to get my hands on one and perhaps model some old Gibson or Fender amps.
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That would be a problem! And that's exactly what I fear might happen with a BB Preamp or an Empress Germ Drive. I want to be able to dial it in. Originally Posted by Philco
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Hi Stevie. I'd like to know how the Zendrive sounds and behaves with the Henricksen. Could you describe the tone or point to a clip? Thanks! Originally Posted by StevieB
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your best bet then, would be to stop being so canadian.
here in the us, many retailers have 90 day trial periods for pedals (pro guitar shop, rogue guitar shop and prymaxe, to name three i've used). not sure if/how that applies to canada, though. your customs are terrible people.
also, using an ss amp- that changes things. not familar with yours, but some simply don't feel like overdriving. i know my roland did not like being pushed at all. doesn't mean it won't take an overdrive well, just that the gain has to come from the pedal.
a tube drive might not be a bad idea simply because you can control how much gain and where the gain starts by swapping in tubes. i have an old damage control liquid blues that i use as a preamp in front of the roland. i swapped out the 12ax7s for 12au7s (or 12at7s, whichever has the lowest relative gain, i forget which, exactly) and it barely distorts for 3/4ths of the knobs travel. trouble with that is that they are generally much larger and more expensive than regular overdrives. and if they aren't running at a much higher voltage than a regular pedal, the tube thing could be a little gimmicky at just 9v. but that's another can of worms.
in your position, i'd probably go with the catalinbread, wampler or something similar. a "character" pedal. probably the cheapest, easiest way out.
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I need to ask, what's wrong with this amp straight in? And if its OK, just a neutral clean boost ought to push it when you want it to be pushed. Originally Posted by Eddie Lang
Last edited by monkmiles; 04-12-2014 at 11:32 PM.
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Now Stevie that was a VERY careful quote... I was talking about the spark / rc pedals. I love my RAT and my Zendrive trough both. A TS with more gain and more bass sounds good too Originally Posted by StevieB
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Again, this is only my opinion but the RC (or the spark) trough high wattage SS amps will not get you that sound... maybe trough low watt tube amps, never tried them. Originally Posted by Eddie Lang
Maybe good replies, thank you! Keep them coming!
It's interesting how it seems that the Spark has its lovers and detractors, but not many in between.
I'd like to hear some first hand opinions about the MXR Micro Amp + if possible...
The RC Booster definitely sounds tempting. The Formula 5F6 maybe even more so, I am not sure. The thing that makes me hesitate about the 5F6 is that there is no dealer near.
What I should have mentioned is that whichever box I choose will most likely be used only with the JazzKat or the JazzAmp (two very clean SS amps), and probably not with my tube amps.
I guess I've been looking at it via a boost pedal with eq because:
- I want tone shaping, but not an EQ that complex to tweak
- I want a bit of break up when needed
The thing is, I don't need the "boost" (as in "louder") so much because I use a Hilton volume pedal (no pot), but I'd still love to get the eq and the drive in one pedal instead of two.
I've heard good thing about the Barber Barb E.Q., but I think that it stays clean all the way.
Another EQ that I have considered but not heard much about is the Diamond Boost EQ. I think that it stays clean too. Anyone know anything about this one?
Philco, it's funny that you mentioned the Fuchs Plush Valve Job. It is a pedal that I have considered a couple years ago and I though about it again last night. How would that one work in front of a clean SS amp? Depending on what you say, I may end up choosing between this one, the 5F6 and the RC...
After Jorge's comment, I started thinking about an overdrive pedal. Last night I watched videos, and a few caught my attention. There's the Xotic BB Preamp (and the BB Preamp MB -- middle boost) and the Empress Germ Drive, but I fear that they have too much gain for my needs and that they break up much too early. Am I right?
There is also the Voodoo Lab Sparkle. What seems interesting with this one is that is has a Clean knob, but I am not convinced that it will deliver the kind of tone that I am looking for.
I wish somebody would make an analog stompbox that could bring us close to the CC/EH-150/EH-185 tone…
The sparkle is a TS. It doesn't have enough bass in my opinion... I am also not a fan of the clean bend with ODS although Kurt Rosenwinkel and Jonathan Kresiberg can have great sounds with that. Here's a clip of one 7:50
The Barb EQ is as clean as a pedal can be.
I love the Zendrive (and the RAT) and those are my two favorite pedals to use with "jazz amps"... they cannot be set clean but they can do low gain well. I am not sure they can match the sound you're chasing though...
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Hi Eddie Lang,
Personally, I use a Danelectro CoolCat Transparent Overdrive V2: CoolCatTone
Pros:
- Boost: + 6 dB or + 12 dB with or without overdrive.
- Totally transparent engaged and disengaged (True Bypass).
- EQ: treble/bass.
- Ultra low cost.
Cons:
- Treble/bass controls are stacked and really difficult to adjust.Last edited by Dirk; 11-07-2019 at 05:12 PM.
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I wouldn't recommend the Barber for what you are after (I have owned it). The Spark would be much better.
I've never tried the Diamond. But I know Diamond's stuff is very popular.
As far as ODs go, the RIGHT OD might work- I've been thru dozens, all the "famous" ones, and very very few "played well" with my hollowbody guitars, for whatever reason. The Blue Note was a notable exception. It's a VERY LOW GAIN overdrive. It EXCELS at "Adding just a little grit", and it has a bass (fat) and treble control. (it also has a "hot switch" that increases gain, but I never use it). What it does so WELL that most ODs DON'T is, it retains the natural pick attack - it doesn't soften it like almost all overdrives do. It's very natural-sounding, as well as very amp-like.Last edited by ruger9; 04-13-2014 at 09:22 AM.
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I heard another nice low gain overdrive is the T-Rex Alberta.
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It sounds like the OP is looking for a light OD pedal and not so much a clean boost unless he is using a tube amp (is he?).
Here is what I would recommend these 5-pedals based on my experience:
Lizard Leg Effects - Flying Dragon = Transparent Clean Boost (your tone, just more)
Xotic Effects - RC Booster = Clean Boost with useful EQ
Paul Cochrane - Tim = Light OD with useful EQ + Boost
Analogman - King of Tone = Light, warm OD + warm boost
Menatone - Red Snapper = Light, warm OD
I will caveat that I only use the 3-OD pedals with tube amps and never with solid state amps.
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Got it. I missed your posts about liking and using the Zendrive and RAT with Jazz amps. Curious about your signal chain. Do you put the RAT before or after the Zendrive? And do you sometimes use them on together or just one at a time? Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
Now Stevie that was a VERY careful quote... I was talking about the spark / rc pedals. I love my RAT and my Zendrive trough both. A TS with more gain and more bass sounds good too
And (slight hijack), have you compared the RAT with a Timmy?Last edited by StevieB; 04-13-2014 at 10:36 AM.
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My board is Rat RCBooster (it's just one pedal, it's a combo clone, both rat and rc have some mods), Korg Pitchblack, BYOC Parametric EQ (with lots of mods). T-Rex Reptile 2 delay and Subdecay Spring Theory reverb in the loop.
The Zendrive is in my other rig, I use it with my Zoom G3. I am going to do a mod to it too soon. Sometimes I need to use the RC Booster with my G3 (it's my acoustics preamps) and I'll trade with the Zendrive!
I never compared them but I can't imagine the RAT being similar to a Timmy honestly... the Timmy should be similar to the RC but it has passive controls.
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I liked the Timmy MUCH better than the RC... I found the RC very sterile sounding.
I liked the Spark better than Timmy, for what the OP is looking for... altho Timmy would likely work...Spark is a better EQ/booster, Timmy is a better OD.
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Thanks all! There is a lot to think about. Don't let that stop you though, I want to read more about it. Especially since I am in no hurry to get something. I can take my time and I prefer to buy right.
Originally Posted by feet
Customs from many countries are terrible people…
I don't know about a 90 day trial period, but most music stores in town give 30 days. I prefer something I can try in town to avoid doing a trial and then having to deal with shipping back, especially across borders. Still, by the time I will have my mind made up with some degree of certainty, I don't mind buying from the US or elsewhere. I just do't want to play try-and-see-if-I-like-it-otherwise-ship-it-back...
Nothing wrong with that amp. If anything, some guitars and pickups give me a harder time when I try to adjust the tone, so I may get an EQ pedal for it. Originally Posted by hallpass
Originally Posted by Eddie Lang
I need to ask, what's wrong with this amp straight in? And if its OK, just a neutral clean boost ought to push it when you want it to be pushed.
My original question is more about getting something for my SS amp (the JazzKat). It has a great sound and it is the amp that I play through the most since I got it last summer, but sometimes I'd like to be able to make it slightly more "tubey". It is my lightest usable amp, and I have two herniated discs that are inflamed right now which means that I will have to be very careful with any moderately heavy lifting during the next few months.
Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
Definitely not the sound that I am chasing. But you already know that.
Thanks for this link! I may wait until the clean 1-channel Ethos preamp comes out next summer before I get anything else. Originally Posted by balthazar
From your description, I could like the Blue Note! Originally Posted by ruger9
I use a couple tube amps, but this post is mostly about something for my SS amps. Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7
I'll do a bit more research on the pedals that you suggested. Thanks!
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So it appears, Good Sir, that even if you can attain the Kenny Burrell tone you are after, you will concurrently adjust your technique when you play chords or they may get a little "messy" with distortion. This is a nuance that I am taking from this thread after considering some of the earlier comments.
With that being said, are you looking to turn the booster off and on, or are you looking for a booster that can stay on, and you will just adjust your technique?
This seems to be the compromise for gaining this type of tone.
Thanks.
(I have an RC Booster on my "Gear List" and am using the information from your thread to decide whether or not to stick with it.)
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AlsoRan, I realize that I am probably chasing rainbows...
One thing I am NOT trying to do (or hoping to achieve!) is play like KB. He is certainly one of my favorites, but I do not play like that and I couldn't if I tried… My style is closer to what Susie Arioli & Jordan Officer, Alex Pangman, or Hot Club Of Cowtown play. Old vocal tunes in an old style, or at least inspired by it. Pre-bop stuff. Think vocalists from Ruth Etting, Annette Hanshaw, Fats Waller, the Boswell Sisters, Bing Crosby, and early Nat King Cole, along with the work of guitarists like Lang, Casey, and Bunn, all the way to Oscar Moore, and closer to today, the Pizzarellis. And while a lot of that music was acoustic, I like to adapt it with an old "classic" electrical guitar sound. But I digress…
What I look for is more a tonal quality. If and when I find the box that help me attain that timbre, it won't necessarily be for all the tunes, all the time. But it's not about stomping in and out. I'll be looking for a consistent tone for the duration of any specific tune. Also, it will probably not be the exact same tone that I will be dialing in each time, but there is a ballpark, namely something rooted in the 1930-40s.
So, a pedal that will provide me with some shaping capabilities and a slight break up when wanted (not big overdrive or distortion).Last edited by Eddie Lang; 04-13-2014 at 05:56 PM.
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Eddie,
I posted that clip exactly for you to see some pedal can be good at low gain and yet not good for the sound you're after.
The only pedal that might do what you want is Dr Scientist The Elements. Other than that I believe you need an eq / booster and a tweed od.
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Thanks again, Jorge!
The Elements is yet another one I had never heard about. It looks pretty tweak-able. Too bad all the clips show is high gain, heavy distortion. I don't know if they do custom and could make one tailored for my needs. They are about 200 miles from here. I might contact them and see what they have to say.
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ryan (dr scientist) is one of the nicest, most helpful guys you could hope to find. i use and love one of his reverbs to a great extent. he'd be happy to communicate and help in any way he can.
the elements is a squishing together of one his older pedals, an eq, with distortion capabilities, from nothing to a buttload. i suppose its worth a shot, as i've read many pleased to use it for just lighter od. there are trillions of tonal options there, too. also, being canadian, the try/buy might be easier for you.
still think you need a character pedal though then maybe a tube based pre amp type thing. or maybe an amp that just does that sort of thing instead of your ss ones.
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