Vintage Gibson Amps

[neatomic]

amp covering is kinda stained weird...& grill cloth might be changed out..(i think i've seen that amp before online!) but..if original gibby ga-50 or 50T...great amp...it's the jim hall amp...he used it from the mid 50's till the very early 70's...his classic tones came from that amp...only reason why he stopped using it, was it got to delicate/scary to travel around with...i believe he brought it to germany and the airlines lost it for awhile...that put him off travelling with it

a grail amp

cheers

[MaxTwang]

Bill Frisell appears to be using a Gibson GA-50 in this video (there's a mic in front).

[Sam Sherry]

Here's the link for his video of him and his band playing Autumn Leaves (in quarantine, over the internet)....

He sounds great!

That arrangement is a pull from Cannon and Miles:

[archtopeddy]

He sounds great!

That arrangement is a pull from Cannon and Miles:

I agree. Nice take by Andy Timmons on Autumn Leaves. But for me the original by Cannon Ball and Miles is over the top. Especially Miles. He sets a tone that feels like the silence is the real music -- the notes are garnishes to take you to the next silent moment. Everybody else falls hypnotically in lock-step with him. Cannon Ball follows with a great solo too but it's Miles who speaks in a whole new language.

[ruger9]

So, just curious... I don't read nearly as much about these old Gibson amp as I have about Fenders over the year... were these GAs in the "tweed camp", or "brownface camp"? Just assuming, for the years they were produced, they were a more mid-focused amp (when compared to, say, the Fender blackface circuits)? Almost, for example, like saying the early Gibson EHs = tweeds, so the later GAs = ? Fender brownface? Demos of the GA seem to have more treble and clarity than the EHs, so I'm thinking, since the quest back then was for CLEAN, both Leo Fender and Gibson likely walked the same path in the development of their amps? (of course the GAs were octal preamps, so that shapes the tone in a mid-focused way already...)

I've always like stuff in-between tweeds and blackface; it's why I am going to buy a Swart AST. Why I love every demo I've seen on the blonde/brown Fender era amps... the Fender 6G2 Stapleton is even tempting (but not over the Swart, which also has gorgeous reverb)...

[Sam Sherry]

So, just curious... I don't read nearly as much about these old Gibson amp as I have about Fenders over the year... were these GAs in the "tweed camp", or "brownface camp"? Just assuming, for the years they were produced, they were a more mid-focused amp (when compared to, say, the Fender blackface circuits)? Almost, for example, like saying the early Gibson EHs = tweeds, so the later GAs = ? Fender brownface? Demos of the GA seem to have more treble and clarity than the EHs, so I'm thinking, since the quest back then was for CLEAN, both Leo Fender and Gibson likely walked the same path in the development of their amps? (of course the GAs were octal preamps, so that shapes the tone in a mid-focused way already...)

Let's see. The place I return to over and over for details about Gibson Amps is Superior Music.

The earliest EH series Gibson amps are pre-WW2, predating the entire Fender line. Sporting octal preamp tubes and field-coil speakers, they are different critters from any Fender amp most of us ever hear.

The post-war BR series, were built by Barnes & Reinecke for Gibson, and the early GA series through around 1955 are more-or-less analogous to the earliest tweed Fender amps, with 5-volt rectifiers, octal preamp tubes and 6x6 power tubes.

Around 1955 Fender switched to 12-volt preamp tubes. (Compare, e.g., 5C3 Deluxe and 5E3.) The success of those amps helped standardize the guitar amplifier as we know it today. Most Gibsons stayed with octal preamp tubes; there are exceptions noted in the Superior site and those amps are more-or-less analogous to their Fender counterparts.

One of my first guitar amps was a '59 tweed GA-18T Exploder. It was a nice-sounding tweed Deluxe analog. It sounded great at home but it really did not keep up with a band @ 12W and a vintage 10", and probably smaller output transformer although I wasn't clued in to that then.

By the early 60s Fender was making the Brown and Black amps which truly set the bar for the classic American sound. Meanwhile, Gibson took a bold step backward to octal preamp tubes.

As is so often the case with Golden Era Gibson archtops, although the amps had standard badges the tube complements and circuit details often shifted in seemingly random ways. If you're scoping out a 50s or 60s Gibson amp double-check the tube complement before paying. Also, broadly speaking, by modern standards the output transformers are slim so even if the speakers are updated to modern spec the OTs don't deliver all that the circuit might be capable of.

{Or I'm wrong. This is the internet. I've built a few amps but I'm not an electrical engineer.}

Bottom line, some people like them and think that most (except the so-called "Jim Hall" models) are a bargain. Another bunch like the 9-pin preamp and steer clear of most Gibsons accordingly. I'm in the latter camp FWIW.

[DMgolf66]

Was gazing at my GA-18 amp yesterday from across the uncrowded room and was thinking about how lucky I was to find it. It was in mint shape, one owner and all original. Very cool looking and great sounding in my opinion. It got me curious about Gibson amps, so I spent some time last night looking at them on Reverb and came across SO many different kinds.....I had no idea. So very different looking through each period of time and with a wide price range. I saw on of Walter Becker's Gibson amps just recently posted on there.....very cool.

Anyway, I do recall a few guys here mentioning they had one, but can't remember any of the details. Would love to see some pictures, here about your experiences and learn a little more about them from fellow Jazz guys.

Cheers!

[zizala]

I've got a few Gibson amps I like.....and fortunately know someone that knew how to get the bugs out!

'48 GA-30 (bottom left)
'47 GA-25 (bottom right)
'55 GA-20 (top)

They look good as furniture but I'm very happy with how they sound.

I also have a '46 BR-3, '52 Gibsonette and '53 BR-9, but those need to be recovered from the closet.
Maybe I'll dig them out later.

I'll tell what details I know to anyone thats interested, but I'm just able to describe the very edges of the circuitry and what it all means.
How they sound is a challenge in words but I'll try.
For those who care about tube layouts, speakers and certain quirks that were solved by my amp guy...I can handle that.

[DMgolf66]

I've got a few Gibson amps I like.....and fortunately know someone that knew how to get the bugs out!

'48 GA-30 (bottom left)
'47 GA-25 (bottom right)
'55 GA-20 (top)

They look good as furniture but I'm very happy with how they sound.

I also have a '46 BR-3, '52 Gibsonette and '53 BR-9, but those need to be recovered from the closet.

I'll tell what details I know to anyone thats interested but I'm just able to describe the very edges of the circuitry.
Don't know if the photo will size properly.....this is a test as I've not posted any photos lately.

Wow, those are beautiful and would make excellent furniture, ha!
I was looking at some of the smaller ones like the Gibsonettes and I believe the BR-3. Seem like cool little amps.
Of the 3 you have pictured, how varied are they in tone?
Btw, I'd love to hear how they sound with the 2 guitars you have pictured. What a combination!

[David B]

I've had a Gibson GA-50T for the last three years. Unfortunately I haven't been able to determine its age as the original speakers were long gone. I understand that Gibson amps dates were recorded on the speakers. All I can say is that's 1948-54 (the years it was in production).

There's a thread here in which I share some gut shots and other photos: Gibson GA-50T

There's a vintage Gibson amp group on Facebook, with people who really know their stuff.

I invited Pasquale Grasso to use it on a couple of gigs when he visited London last November. When he got back to the States, he bought one for himself!

[Woody Sound]

Is the GA-50T just a fancier GA-25? Or are they actually different amps?

[Sam Sherry]

If you've got a tweed GA16 / GA18 you're lucky alright. That amp is fairly unusual in the Gibson line for it's 100% nine-pin preamp -- it's about as close to a tweed Deluxe as Gibson got, even with the 10". A cool, great-sounding amp indeed!

[zizala]

In simple terms which is the best I can do....

I'm pretty sure the GA-50 is more than a "fancier" version of the GA-25 but there are similarities.

The GA-25 and GA-50 both share similar cabinet sizes and 12 x 8 speaker arrangements.
The GA-50 is rated at 25 watts vs the 15 watts of the GA-25 and GA-30.

The tube array of the GA-25 has 2 6V6, 5Y3 rectifier, and two 6J5's and a 6SL7 in the preamp section.

I know the GA-50 to use 6L6 power tubes but thats about all I know.
Some sleuthing I did had me thinking the original speakers in a GA-50 were Jensen P-12P an P-8R,
but David B might know for sure.
I was looking at these to get an idea of what might be workable vintage replacement speakers to consider using for both my 12 x 8 amps.

Which has me off on a little tangent....

My GA-25 and GA-30 originally had factory installed Jensen P-12S and P-8S speakers rated at about 10 watts.
Both these came to me with blown 8's and I replaced them with early 50's P-12R and P-8R Jensens.
My amp guy installed what I believe were called "impedance matching crossovers" on these two to better balance the output and load on the speaker pairs.
Forgive me for not knowing much more about the technical side of this, but he'd seen other old Gibsons of this design coming across his bench with blown 8's. and this was an attempt to fix a design flaw I guess.
Been working fine for me for over 5 years.

David B can offer more about the GA-50's details that might be useful for comparison.

The '55 GA-20 seems to call for 12AX-7's in the preamp section but mine had 12AY-7s when it came to me that I took to be replacements.
But after trying 12AX-7's, I went back to a "better" set of 12AY-7's....not so noisy and love the sound.
Actually not sure if it originally may have been built for those to begin with.

[Gitterbug]

Why did Gibson give up on amps? In 1962, the Jimmy Giuffre trio had a "Young America Presents" performance in Helsinki. I was 16 and hoped to see Jim Hall. Instead, there was a young substitute, whose name I haven't found out. A (to my disappointment) non-cutaway Gibson and, I believe, a Gibson amp. The first time I heard live jazz guitar. The tone left a lasting imprint.

[JPM]

Bumping this thread to show this one that doesn't say Gibson but it was made along with them and I love this thing!
1964 Epiphone EA28RVT (same as the Falcon GA18RVT):

[DMgolf66]

Very cool, even has the cool handle they used to have.!

[floatingpickup]

I had a gorgeous ‘63 GA-79RVT several years ago. It was one of the best sounding amps ever. Two 10” speakers, switchable between 30 watts mono or 15 watts per side in stereo. Reverb and tremelo. I bought it from a friend who owned it since new. A few years later, he told me he really regretted selling the amp, so I let him have it back for what I originally paid him for it. Unfortunately, he passed away a few years later and I don’t know where the amp went. I would have loved to have had the opportunity to buy it again but sadly, that didn’t happen.
Keith

[rhl-ferndale]

Here’s a How Do You Do from the EH-125 that lives with me (though up for sale here & elsewhere).

Somewhere in family photos not in my possession is a snap of me at 14 with a nameless candy-apple flake Asian solid body plugged into my first amp—a brand new Skylark, from Gibson’s boxy gray era. (The Rubber Soul LP is lying on the couch, for historical context.) Later that year I traded it for a Deluxe Reverb.

I do prefer the 1930s-40s suitcase with hinges look, and the bigger 1950s Gibson tweeds like DMG’s GA18, to the following decade or so in Gibson cosmetics.

[JPM]

Very cool, even has the cool handle they used to have.!

And the stock tubes and speaker!
Still need to check inside to see if anything was done to it, other than the step-down transformer added to the back.

[sir-vector]

Anyone familiar with the GA-40 sound? I‘ve been digging the Jim Hall / Pasquale Grasso sound through a GA-20 lately and Victoria Amps makes a nice GA-40 clone called Electro King. So I‘m wondering if one of those would get me close to that sound…

[David B]

Anyone familiar with the GA-40 sound? I‘ve been digging the Jim Hall / Pasquale Grasso sound through a GA-20 lately and Victoria Amps makes a nice GA-40 clone called Electro King. So I‘m wondering if one of those would get me close to that sound…

Hall only ever used a GA-50 and Grasso has a bunch of vintage Gibson amps - GA-50, GA-20, BR-6 and others. I can't comment on the Victoria amp, save to say that for that price c.$3000 will get you in the vintage Gibson amp game.

You should consider joining the 'Vintage Gibson tube amplifiers users' group on Facebook. What Dave Piggott and others there don't know about these amps isn't worth knowing. Link: Log into Facebook

Grasso is currently using a VA-185G by Vintage 47 for jobs where he can take his own amp. 15 watts and a little over a third of the price of the Victoria.
Link: VA-185G

[omphalopsychos]

The GA 40 is from a different generation of Gibson amps than what Pasquale and Jim are into. Pasquale's amps use octal preamps, which was the standard for Gibson until the early 50s. Gibson, along with other amp manufacturers started using 12AX7 preamp tubes in the 50s. This generation of amps is closer to Fender's "tweed" generation. The tones are brighter, the distortion has a less smooth texture. The Victoria amp is based on this generation of amps, not the earlier ones that used octal preamp tubes.

They all sound really good, IMO just different. I like the distortion characteristics of octal amps but they come with issues: lots of noise and microphonics, bad cabinet design and construction (Fender perfected baffle and cabinet building in the 50s), and often muddy tones. I tend to prefer the tweed amps for everything other than the distortion. I went deep into this rabbit hole once and I owned several octal tube amps. I sold all of them when I found the perfect amp: 1959 Fender Harvard (thanks Greentone, ha!). Overall a massive improvement over the amps of the 40s. Pro tip: Brown face princeton are basically lower price fender harvards with tremolo and a ceramic speaker. Put an alnico speaker (jensen p10r or p10q) in there and you just scored the best jazz amp.

This is all somewhat moot since neither Pasquale nor Jim play loud enough to get a lot of tube distortion. I think they would sound pretty much exactly the same on a later amp. A GA 40 would be way too much wattage to get any saturation from the amp in a jazz context.

In my opinion, if you want to sound like Pasquale, your best bet is to take guitar lessons from a pianist.

[QAman]

In my opinion, if you want to sound like Pasquale, your best bet is to take guitar lessons from a pianist.[/QUOTE]


And buy yourself a Trenier Pasquale Grasso model guitar.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[icr]

I went to great lengths to try and re-cone my original field coil speaker, but the hole in the field coil was too small and rubbed on the voice coil. Plus no good voice coil replacements available without having to wind my own.

So I did a 'stealth' ceramic speaker conversion. I mounted the original field coil (serving as the power supply choke) on the back of the ceramic magnet and fitted the original magnet cover.

[whiskey02]

Could someone explain the reason for mixing 12 and 8" speakers? I don't think I've ever seen this from any other manufacturer.