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Originally Posted by jazzbow
Gawd bless ye, Jazzbow - a non-neurotic response, finally!!! (joking with you, fellas - some of you)
I loved the video. Boy, that violin string looks like a garden snake slithering along a wooden gate. EEE!
And - what you said makes sense. I've decided not to drive the 375 mile round-trip to be told basically the same thing I've heard here, so at your behest, I just put a .049 on in place of the .046, and guess what? Buzzing stopped. I knew a .052 wouldn't buzz, but that made everything else feel out of balance. Too big for the other strings, and I do want to keep .010s on it for the stuff I want to play with this guitar. I'm going to go down to a .048 as soon as I can find one, see how that works out. I can tolerate a modicum of buzz - it's a guitar after all. But jeez, the luthier kept saying flatly, "Your guitar is fine. Nothing's wrong with that guitar." I even sent him the video clip - no word back.
Anyhump, the work the guy did on the neck and frets is pretty amazing (to me) -- playing it feels a bit like skating on ice, in a good way -- so it's gonna take some time to develop a feel for it. Yes, I do play mostly acoustic guitars, but lately the fingernails have been largely for chord melody and comping, although I do some mediocre Chet on flattops. I doubt that figures in with the buzzing, however -- I won't rule it out, though.
PTChris had an interesting idea of loosening the truss rod just a hair, and LOWERING the treble-side action. He thinks this could work with the .046; or it might give me success with a .047 or .048. Any thoughts, do tell.
As of now though, I'm cookin'. Honestly would rather have the .046 back, but might have to bow to physics.
Thanks, jazzbow. Cool haiku!
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03-07-2013 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jazzbow
This next bit might sound arse about face but here goes!
Any guitar with properly prepared frets all levelled, shaped and polished. A properly cut and polished nut, bridge and saddle all correctly set. The correct neck pitch, set truss rod and proper relief. Even the correct string pitch behind the nut and saddles.
All this and the sensation of string tension and string gauge to a players fretting hand fingertips will be minimal between 10's and 11's, but (and this is the important bit), makes some difference to final tweaking of the neck.
Below is D'Addario gauge and tension chart for 10's and 11's.
Set 1st
diameter/Tension2nd
diameter/Tension3rd
diameter/Tension4th
diameter/Tension5th
diameter/Tension6th
diameter/TensionTotal Set Tension 0.0100 16.200 0.0130 15.400 0.0170 16.600 0.0260 18.400 0.0360 19.500 0.0460 17.500 103.600 0.0110 19.600 0.0140 17.800 0.0180 18.600 0.0280 21.300 0.0380 21.600 0.0490 19.700 118.600
First off there is an overall difference of 15lbs of tension between the 10's & 11's. Also there is a difference of 2.2lbs difference between a 46 and 49 6th string. This extra tension of the larger string would be enough to pull the neck enough to clear the fret that buzzes on an open note! I would check the frets along the lay of the 6th string with a fret rocker while the neck was under tension in the playing position, It may be that one fret is a micron higher that the rest!
A friend of mine has a lovely late 60's Hagstrom acoustic guitar. The engineering that has gone into it is over the top. You can change the pitch of the neck with a key and the truss rod is like a steel girder! The action he has is really low, as low as an electric. If it buzzes and he can't adjust it out then he'll file the offending fret, a little bit off here and a little bit off there. He's happy.
Perfection is in the details
This may help.
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Bummer, I'm late to the mudslinging contests!
Please, someone misquote me or call me an ahole!
Hey Patrick: Pia was a Jersey girl that got famous in the early 80s through a flick called Butterfly.
I recall Johnny Carson once saying: "Who the hell is Pia Zadora?"
Sadly, her career tanked in the 80s and she was forced to sing standards. Ha!
I wonder what she looks like now: Man, she's gotta be close to 80!
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Pia Zadora became so desperate to "come back" that she posed butt-freakin' nude in Playboy -- and I was a horn-ball teen then and even I wasn't too impressed. She's one of the few women who look sexier with their clothes on. Or partially on. Or is that partially off?
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Originally Posted by jazzbow
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Originally Posted by teleman3726
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Originally Posted by Kojo27
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Originally Posted by jazzbow
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Oh nice!
Thanks. Wish Rac would sit on my face in the mud!
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You either need more relief in the neck or raise the action a bit.
What is the measurement of the relief at the 8th fret? Hopefully you know how to check the relief. Put a capo at the first fret. Hold down the low E at the last fret. Measure at 8th fret. Should be slight gap between string and fret. Do the same with the high E string. Adjust truss rod if necessary.
Retune and check it. If you still get that buzz raise the action until it's gone. You could also try heavier strings.
Was this a new guitar? For $6000 it should be perfect. Unfortunately Gibson makes junk.
Setting up a $6000 guitar is no different than setting up a $100 guitar. It's not a Holy Relic.Last edited by Drumbler; 03-08-2013 at 09:18 AM.
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Originally Posted by Drumbler
Thanks Drumbler. Good info. However, the actual topic became lost right away, and then lost even worse when Patrick showed up. All I asked for were some opinions about the buzzing itself, and about my picking technique. I paid a good deal to have this guitar "jazzed up" and I wanted to know whether you guys agreed with the luthier, who said the buzzing was *not* excessive, that the guitar was fine as it is -- and that perhaps I pick too hard. I'm not a solid-body guitar player, so I really didn't know... just asked for a little help.
Thanks again.
kj
BTW, you need to read the original post; your facts are a tad off.Last edited by Kojo27; 03-08-2013 at 01:40 PM.
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[QUOTE=Kojo27;304362]Thanks Drumbler. Good info. However, the actual topic became lost right away,
and then lost even worse when Patrick showed up.
Let's see now; you blame you guitar tech for a poor set up . . . you blame PTChris for calling you an A-hole . . when it's very clear to all that he never included that in the post you quoted . . . you blame me for the deterioration of your thread because I posted an "opinion" asyou requested from us. Well, here's another "opinion" . . . in my opinion, your whining sounds like that of a little child who is blaming anyone he can because he can't get his toy work correctly. You need to grow up!
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Originally Posted by Kojo27
Back to that original question. I do not think it should rattle like that. I would call that a "rattle" not buzzing but that is semantics.
The string is oscillating and hitting the frets. To fix you either have to adjust the relief (adjust relief to correct amount only) and then if still rattling raise action or heavier strings. You do not adjust relief to raise or lower action, that would be a bridge or nut adjustment, and avoid messing with the nut only as a last resort. Adjust the neck to a correct relief, then adjust string height with the bridge saddles or whatever kind of bridge you have (tune-a-matic?)
Fingerpickers usually can have lower action because they do not pick the string as hard as flatpickers. Maybe your setup guy is a fingerpicker.Last edited by Drumbler; 03-08-2013 at 04:12 PM.
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Originally Posted by Drumbler
Yes, it has TOM bridge/saddles, set dead on (except for the new 6th, which I'll get to momentarily). I wouldn't dare mess with the nut! I haven't the tools nor the keenness of vision to do that. This is a Buzz Feiten nut too, so I don't want to screw that up (*please* guys, not another Buzz Feiten thread!). I like BF. Some don't. It's off topic, though.
And yeah, Bob must barely stroke the string with the pad of his thumb or something. I asked this question 'cause I didn't know whether solid bodies were allowed to rattle a bit. Dumb question maybe, but I'm a rank beginner with solid-body guitars.
Thanks again, Drumbler
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Yes, I see the date of this thread but hopefully this can help someone in a similar situation. Here are a few things you can think about . . .
1. Nut slot WIDTH. If you've gone to heavier strings you need to widen the slot or the string will bind.
2. Lube nut slots with common pencil graphite to facilitate unrestricted string movement.
3. When replacing the string, cut it a little longer to get a few more wraps (spiraled downward of course). This changes the "ramp down" angle from the nut to the tuner.
4. Check to make certain that a fret end is not loose/raised.
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What a riot.
Damn I miss Patrick.
I do not miss the offline PM’s from the OP, who seemed to want a lonesome forumite buddy.
As for the latest post, yes to everything except #3. That is a actualy a long and widely held, but simply and demonstrably unfortunate belief for several reasons.
Anyway, funny trip into the past.
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Send him your video. Ask him what he thinks.
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If your guitar neck had to be treated with a heat clamp, it could be twisted or have all sorts of problems. Personally I think good tone ends where buzzing starts, especially talking jazz cleans. I use a bit of relief and medium action, but I've had guitars with no relief and really low action that played perfectly, you could pound on any note without buzzing. But you need perfect neck, frets and setup for that to work. Once a fret is just a tad high, or something in the neck or top moves a bit, problems begin..
A good setup guy will ask you how you want your guitar setup, since there are many viable ways to do it. Learning to do setup by yourself is really worth it, you can be very precise and setup around your own playing technique. Saves $$ and time too.
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Originally Posted by Kojo27
Picking technique I can not judge, but get the impression of a fairly heavy/stiff pick. Maybe its due to the rest stroke. The "weird thing" is that You only have this buzz on one string. But - and I appologize for being off topic - If you have used this tech for that long period, he should know you and your playing style and preferences well enough. I wish you good luck with the guitar.
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