Looking for inexpensive Jazz amp

[Jolsin]

I have a 1949 Epiphone Zephyr Regent Deluxe and I am looking for an inexpensive amplifier price range $ 200 -$ 450.

Where can I buy it from?

I currently have a tube Fender vibrolux reverb and not happy with the sound. One of the speakers is not original. Sound is not clean enough.

Thanks for any help.

[mr. beaumont]

used polytone or a new roland cube 60. clean for days.

[TieDyedDevil]

SamAsh.com has the Phil Jones AAD Cub for $399, shipping included.

[Scolohofo]

SamAsh.com has the Phil Jones AAD Cub for $399, shipping included.

yes,there is no better in that price range

[TieDyedDevil]

BTW, that's a good price for the Cub. Everyone else sells them for $535.

[brian evans]

I am playing my new (to me) 1944 Epi Zephyr through a Polytone Teenybrute with a JBL speaker (no idea why it has a JBL speaker, it just came that way when I bought it used 20 years ago). I really like the tone, very woody and percussive but balanced. I can't get a tone I like with my 1965 Fender Bandmaster, quite honky sounding. I just added a Boss RV-2 digital reverb and that is adding some room tone that is kind of nice.

So I second the Polytone route.

Brian

[tmlesko]

It seems like Jolsin's original post has been dealt with so I hope it's OK to put my post in here. Here's my situation: I am a rank beginner. . .really. I picked up the guitar a couple months ago after 40 years so I really know nothing to speak of. I have really gotten into the warm, melow sounds of Joe Pass, Wes kind of jazz (listening to it, not playing it yet.)

I have two questions:
1) Will re-tubing my Fender HR Deluxe amp give me the really warm, mellow, creamy sound? (Looking at Eurotubes Gold Pin Option or Gold Pin Blues Option #1)

2) I may want to get a smaller amp, I would consider these based on the looks I like: Fender Champ 600 $199, Epiphone Valve Jr. $149, Gretsch Electromatic $199

Can I get the really warm, mellow creamy sounds out of one of those amps?

I would appreciate any opinions/dialog on the above.

Thanks in advance!
Tom L.

[abelljo]

You can modify the Vibrolux for less than that and it can be reversible if you want to sell it. I build and fix tube amps for my self and buddies and it is a simple mod. You can buy a Fender Pro or other 50 what output transformer hand have a tech replace it. It will give you an extra 10 to 15 watts. You could also put in two high wattage clean speakers if the speaker in the amp are not what you like and all is completely reversible. I play my Vibrolux on most of my gigs and people always compliment my tone. If the amp is set right there is no reason why the sound should suck. Check Mojo Musical Supply » Vintage Musical Supply Parts for Amplifiers & Guitars or Antique Electronic Supply to start. Mine is built stock and has Jensens P10R not a lot of volume, but it is still a clean 35w and I don't play loud. I have a Pro Reverb for outside gigs etc. and I just Sold a Super Reverb, too heavy and bulky. The thing is that blackface amps are part of my sound and I really miss something when I play through solid state amps. Not that there is anything wrong with them it is just a personal preference.

[mr. beaumont]

I have two questions:
1) Will re-tubing my Fender HR Deluxe amp give me the really warm, mellow, creamy sound? (Looking at Eurotubes Gold Pin Option or Gold Pin Blues Option #1)

2) I may want to get a smaller amp, I would consider these based on the looks I like: Fender Champ 600 $199, Epiphone Valve Jr. $149, Gretsch Electromatic $199

Can I get the really warm, mellow creamy sounds out of one of those amps?

I would appreciate any opinions/dialog on the above.

Thanks in advance!
Tom L.

my answers, just my opinion...

first off, i'm surprised you mention joe pass and wes in the same sentence as far as tone--very diffeent to my ears. wes' tone was always warm, round, and fat, where's joe's recorded tones range from dry to nearly brittle...not a knock on joe, but the production during his heyday really didn't do him any favors, JMHO. alright, to your questions...

Question 1: No. the sound is in there already, but you're going to need to fiddle with that EQ. boost the mids, drop the highs, and add bass to taste. the tone knob on the guitar is your friend-- use it. roll it down enough to take out the harshness, but leave it high enogh that you still have some "attack" to the sound.

but the thing with the HRD is this--it's a big amp. like any tube amp, it sounds best cranked up a little, and cranked up a little, it's loud enough to shake the rafters. so, let's get to your second question.

2. No. No. No.

these little amps also sound best cranked, and then they are DIIIIRRRTTTTYY!

actually, i shouldn't pick on 'em so much, but at lower volumes they really don't move enough air to get the warm bass you'd want. i actually have a champ and i like the sound at lower volumes, but it's a different kind of jazz tone---very midrangey, and probably not the classic tone you're looking for.

joe pass used a lot of soid state amps, as did wes later on in his career. but wes' best tones were thru tube amps in my opinion. if you like that dark, dry, jim hall-ish sound, solid state is where it's at.

if you dig the idea of tube warmth, if you have a big guitar store near you, investigate what they have in tube amp around 12-20 watts, preferably with a 10 or 12 inch speaker. brand does not matter, just try 'em. a three band EQ is a nice addition, again, to accentuate those nice warm mids.

have fun, and good luck.

[music_tech]

I like my marshall JCM900 amp. All tube and sounds good with any kind of music.

[tmlesko]

my answers, just my opinion...

first off, i'm surprised you mention joe pass and wes in the same sentence as far as tone <snip>

but the thing with the HRD is this--it's a big amp. like any tube amp, it sounds best cranked up a little, and cranked up a little, it's loud enough to shake the rafters. so, let's get to your second question.
<snip>

have fun, and good luck.

Thanks "Mr. Beaumont,"
Regarding Joe and Wes, perhaps it's just the selected tunes that I listen to, not necessarily a generalization, again, I am very new at this. Who should I listen to for that kind of sound?

I have read quite a bit about the re-tube options helping to give warm, smooth, sound and lots of clean headroom, although I confess to not knowing what "headroom" actually is (?)

How about a volume box that goes from pre-amp out to power amp in? Will that allow the amp to work well and not 'shake the rafters'? Or, just turning down the guitar volume and turning up the amp?

Another question, I have a 15" speaker/cabinet that I made years ago for my son, Radio Shack 15" "guitar speaker". Would I be able to use that with the HR Deluxe to any advantage? I suppose I should just give it a try but I need to put in a jack.

Is there a big difference in warm, mellow sound from the Epi Sheraton II guitar to the Emperor II guitar?

Thanks again! Very Helpful.

Tom L.

[TieDyedDevil]

I have read quite a bit about the re-tube options helping to give warm, smooth, sound and lots of clean headroom, although I confess to not knowing what "headroom" actually is (?)

"Headroom" relates to how loud an amp can play without starting to sound dirty. Smaller amps tend to have less headroom than do larger amps, regardless of whether the amp is tube or solid-state.

Basically, headroom depends upon the power of the amp and the efficiency of the speaker(s). A more powerful amp or more efficient speakers will give you more headroom.

Also, the amount of power needed increases with the amount of clean bass you want to hear in your sound. You can play louder with less power if you're willing to turn down the bass.

Which brings up another point: The "warmth" of a clean guitar sound is a function of the balance among the different frequency ranges. It doesn't really have much to do with whether you use tubes or solid-state. Some players like a bit of low-level distortion in their clean sound. They also call this warmth, and it is something you can get from a tube amp that's appropriately sized for the volume you'll be playing.

That said, the kind of low-level distortion that some people prefer is not always right for the music. It can make sustained close-voiced chords sound really awful.

The bit about retubing to change the behavior of your amp is very dependent upon the design of the amp. A good tube amp tech should be able to make recommendations based upon your amp and preferences.

How about a volume box that goes from pre-amp out to power amp in? Will that allow the amp to work well and not 'shake the rafters'? Or, just turning down the guitar volume and turning up the amp?

Not really. The volume box will make it easier for you to turn the amp down to a reasonable level, but it does so by reducing the drive to the power section. Tube amp guys'll tell you you that the "good" distortion comes from pushing the power tubes. Of course, that means that you're playing unreasonably loud (unless you're playing rock in a big room).

Turning down the guitar and turning up the amp, however, is useful. Doing this rolls of some of the high frequencies from the guitar. The tone control also has this effect, but the exact frequencies affected are different. Try it both ways (or in combination) to see what sounds best to you.

Also, if you have a two-pickup guitar try mixing the pickups in different amounts using the volume controls on your guitar.

[mr. beaumont]

Which brings up another point: The "warmth" of a clean guitar sound is a function of the balance among the different frequency ranges. It doesn't really have much to do with whether you use tubes or solid-state. Some players like a bit of low-level distortion in their clean sound. They also call this warmth, and it is something you can get from a tube amp that's appropriately sized for the volume you'll be playing.

That said, the kind of low-level distortion that some people prefer is not always right for the music. It can make sustained close-voiced chords sound really awful.

.

very true.

i always think of kenny burrell's tone as a good definition of "tube warmth." because of the way a tube amp "breaks up", kennys softer touched chords would sound clean, and if he's dig in a little, you'd hear just a littl "dirt" to the tone.

but certainly solid state amps can sound warm too--just ask ed bickert. but it's a different kind of sound. all in all, even though i find myslef using it, "warm" is just to general a word to really describe tone. one man's "warm" is another's "muddy" for all i know.

i've found myself recently at home spltting my signal between a tube amp and a solid state amp. maybe that's the answer!

as for the question about the sheraton vs. the pass emperor, plugged in you'll be able to get a lot of the same tones. unplugged, the pass will have some actual acoustic volume, which is nice.

even though i'm a telecaster man, i have a epiphone emperor regent, and i always make it a point to comment on the high quality of the mid to upper priced epiphones. both the sheraton and the pass are enjoyable guitars, and represent a very good value, IMHO.

[Bertrand tB]

For Jazz play through a Roland Cube 60 amp, which make my hollows and my thinlines sound very beautifull. But there's just a lot of amps which can make you sound as you wish.

[Little Jay]

The "warm, mellow, creamy sound" does not necessarely depend on a specific type of amp. If I have the correct interpretation of what you mean, it's the Gibson-with-humbucker-on-tube-amp sound of the late fifties and sixties boppers. I think with most amps with a 12 inch speaker and say between 40 - 100 Watts output are capable of delivering "that" sound, although personally I have problems with Marshall(-like) amps to get there. The key is how to adjust your amp and how to play with the tone- and volume control of your guitar.

By the way, have you heard Wes Montgomery on the early album "Fingerpickin' "? He definately didn't yet devellop his warm and round sound there! So everybody needs time to devellop a sound like that.

Personally I am able to make that kind of classic jazzsound with as well my Fender Blues Deluxe, my Roland Cube 30x and also with my Guyatone Twin Reverb copy. On the guitar I use the neck pick up, roll back my volume a little and my tone control quite a lot. The amps I set more or less neutral with most controls in the mid-position, but I roll back bass as that easily develops feedback. My guitars are all laminated hollowbodies, a Japanese ES175-copy, a Framus thinline with P90-like pickups and a Furch with a floating Kent Armstrong. Although totally different guitars, I find it quite remarkable how I sound more or less the same on all of them! (So it's in the fingers after all?!?!??!)

Jazz it up!

(@ Bertrand tB: nice to see you here too!)

[tmlesko]

Thanks Guys,
I will digest your comments, try what was suggested and let you know. I am tempted to re-tube the amp based on Bob @ Eurotubes recommendation.

Ciao,
Tom L.

[bigou]

I have a Roland JC55 that I paid 300$ last year. Really clean, lots of power and not limited to jazz. I play with a Gretsch (not a typical Jazz box I know) and use a lot of pedals. This amp is really good for almost any style.

[Little Jay]

I am tempted to say that for the price, it's hard to beat the Roland Cubes!

(I know there are a lot of amps that may offer more tonal quality, but they often also cost a lot more!)

[tmlesko]

I have a chance at a '59 Fender Bassman Reissue LTD for a really good price, anyone have helpful comments regarding this amp? Thanks, Tom L.

[cosmic gumbo]

Golly, I'd invest in that vibrolux and have an amp with some very desirable tone qualities.

[AZanshin]

ZT Club Anyone?

[tmlesko]

ZT Club Anyone?

Tell me, how the hell is that comment helpful? I am new at this and was just looking for some advice. Sheesh! I am not familiar with the "ZT Club" nor do I want to be. I don't need 200 watts and an amp that looks like a cheap electric heater you can buy at WalMart. Tom L.

[mr. beaumont]

Well, first of all this is an old thread, back from the dead.

Second, you're listening with your eyes. There's been an extensive review on the Zt Club here, and many (myself included) feel it's a great amp for jazz playing, practice or on stage.

That's "how in the hell" that comment is helpful.

[Dad3353]

I have a chance at a '59 Fender Bassman Reissue LTD for a really good price, anyone have helpful comments regarding this amp? Thanks, Tom L.

Good afternoon, Tom...
My comments are only to try to help you, and I don't know what you want to do with your amp, so please don't bite if I'm aiming wrongly.
The 59 Bassman is a great amp, based on an even greater original. I think the list price new is something around $1500; I don't know how that equates with your 'really good price'.
It's very clean, very loud, very robust and very heavy. It's not concerned with 'warm' tones or whatever; what comes out is what goes in, but louder (until you start to 'push' the O/P valves, but by then you're deafened...). It is essentially a 'stage' amp, not at it's best for practising at home (as with the Twin Reverb and other valve amps...).
I don't have this version (I've an old 50w Bassman head and 2 x 15 Bassman cab...), but more info or reviews can be found at sites such as Harmony Central.
Where in the world are you? What's your budget? Do you play only at home, or with others? With a drummer? What repertoire? Do you gig; if so what size venues? These are the points which will make a difference in the replies you get, imo.
Hope this helps...

[kris]

old Polytones or new if find at this price.