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Just to throw my 2 cents here - Phil I do not think a TS is a piece of shit, end of story
I have one with a lots of mods (several clipping types and a switch to lower the bass roll off frequency so you can have more bass). It sounds very good in my opinion... Not a Kenny Burrell sound, true, but an excellent pedal. With the ROF mod you can use it stock with a blackface to push the mids or with more bass with a flat jazz amp. I like mine more stacked with an RC Booster but I like all ODs stacked with an RC Booster.
And the amount of players who use that pedal - in jazz I am remembering Frisell, Hekselmand and Kreisberg - shows it can be a very useful pedal...
I've had a GE-7 with Monte Allums mods, zero noise. I cannot imagine it being able to deliver a Kenny Burrell sound but never tried it and never had a close to breakup tweed amp. I think a nice option would be a Tweed 57 Wampler - I don't think it can make a 100% clean amp but the schematic is online and I bet it's easy to arrange that.
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07-10-2013 05:41 AM
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Well my TS is in overdrive mode when it's not even plugged in
Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
Just to throw my 2 cents here - Phil I do not think a TS is a piece of shit, end of story I have one with a lots of mods (several clipping types and a switch to lower the bass roll off frequency so you can have more bass). It sounds very good in my opinion... Not a Kenny Burrell sound, true, but an excellent pedal. With the ROF mod you can use it stock with a blackface to push the mids or with more bass with a flat jazz amp. I like mine more stacked with an RC Booster but I like all ODs stacked with an RC Booster.
And the amount of players who use that pedal - in jazz I am remembering Frisell, Hekselmand and Kreisberg - shows it can be a very useful pedal...
I've had a GE-7 with Monte Allums mods, zero noise. I cannot imagine it being able to deliver a Kenny Burrell sound but never tried it and never had a close to breakup tweed amp. I think a nice option would be a Tweed 57 Wampler - I don't think it can make a 100% clean amp but the schematic is online and I bet it's easy to arrange that.
. Seriously if I plug a guitar in it's just a dirty mess and I can't clean it up. Plus it totally sucks all the bass away and I'm left with the classic "would you like some extra nasal hair with that tone" sound. Truly horrible.
Now if I was playing a Strat (and I have one) and I wanted to beat out some SRV solos at extreme volume then I may like it.
I really only bought it for my recording work. (when I want a crap indie sound!)
I know lots of guys use the TS. But I don't want sustaining overdrive......I really, really don't like that sound in Jazz. Except maybe Robben Ford......but that's a whole different area. I want that 50's bop sound......and I'm close.
As I mentioned, this TS has a lot of mods and it came with an extra chip. I will go back and read up a bit. Perhaps it's user error and I am being unkind to name it so harshly.
About the GE7.....I really got that wrong..I thought the OP was talking about the Boss multiFX pedal, the digital one (GE5?). Sorry my bad.
I don't have a GE7 but I do love my Empress Para Eq which I bought on recommendation from someone on the list....perhaps you jorgmeg..... I think? (if so, thanks!) In fact the Empress has a boost control that I use all the time.....so I should see how far I can crank it!Last edited by Philco; 07-10-2013 at 08:21 AM.
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Hey jorgemeg, here is the list of mods on my TS.
I don't think it has the more bass mod. It does have a bass mod... but it doesn't sound like the one you were talking about.
Modified TS9 Tube Screamer
This TS9 reissue comes fully modified and ready to go ~ it is in used condition with a number of cosmetic defects. The original pedal was first produced from 1981 to early 1985 and were then discontinued. But due to public demand the TS9 was reissued in the early 90’s and is currently still in production. It’s very well constructed with an all metal housing and point to point wiring to and from the circuit board. Later models (beginning with the TS10) discontinued this labor intensive construction method in favor of a less expensive all-in-one circuit design. The stock pedal has a fairly good tone – it tends to lack gain, low end, and have a bit of a mid hump. This Mod addresses these issues to achieve Tone usually reserved for boutique pedals costing far more. Below are specifications detailing each part of the Mod process. International shipping is$25 to any country.
For the video we plugged the pedal directly into a stock VHT Special 6 tube amp.
Led Mod Chip Cradle Mod Clearer Tone Mod
Fat Mod TS808 Brown Mod Better Bass Mod
Chip Mod Better Gain Mod Better Highs Mod
Led Mod
This Mod changes the low density stock orange Led to a high density Super Bright Green Led which not only looks great, but is also easier to see.
Fat Mod
Tube Screamers tend to have weak bass response so the stock pedal can sound fairly thin. This Mod changes the low quality stock .22uf polyester capacitor to a superior metal film capacitor of a slightly different value, thereby restoring full bass response to the tone.
JRC4558D Chip Mod
This Mod upgrades the inferior stock TA7558P chip to the JRC4558D that is found in the most desired Vintage TS9 & TS808 Tube Screamers. Also included is the Texas Instruments RC4558P chip for maximum flexibility. Only the earliest TS-808 Tube Screamers contain the Texas Instruments RC4558P chip. Many veteran players (me included) like the RC4558P for sake of its grit, which is great for Texas Style blues & rock.
Chip Cradle Mod
This Mod installs a chip cradle which allows the chip to be swapped without resoldering – just remove the chip and slide in another one.
TS808 Brown Mod
This Mod changes the value of the output resistors back from a 470 ohm Carbon Film to a 100 ohm (as found on the early TS808’s) which warms up the tone and allows the full spectrum of bass frequencies to pass the output stage. Also, by using a 100k ohm output resistor, the stock Tube Screamer allows a lot of high end noise to enter the signal. Lowering the value from 100k to 10k (as found on the early TS808’s) sets a lower threshold reduces the hiss.
Better Gain Mod
This Mod changes the value of the 4.7k gain resistor to a 2.2k resistor, which increases the gain. It adds that extra bit of gain while maintaining the clarity and diction of chords.
Clearer Tone Mod
This Mod changes two of the low quality stock polyester .047uF capacitors to higher quality Metal Film Capacitors which makes for a tighter bottom and more fullness of tone throughout. Also changing the 2 stock 1uf electrolytic capacitors to high quality Metal Film Capacitors provides an overall clearer, more focused tone while adding some warmth to the gain structure.
Better Bass Mod
This Mod changes the low quality electrolytic capacitors to high quality Metal Film Capacitors which tightens up the tone by keeping the bass from distorting, without altering or sacrificing the Classic Tube Screamer sound.
Better Highs Mod
Changing stock .22uf tone capacitor to a .15uf Metal Film Capacitor sweetens up the high end and brightens up the overall darkness of the stock pedal.
Sounds Like Shit Mod
For those of you trying to get that old 50's bop sound like Kenny Burrell then this mod will destroy any chance of achieving it.
Especially included for dumb arse Australians.
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Yeah the TS is not good for that 50s sound, no doubt! Here's a TS with the bass mod
overdrive 2 diy guitar effects pedal kit clone of ts-808
Easy to do and you can have A LOT more bass, it's almost flat that way. I can dial mine with little gain but still not the 50s sound. But I like it for jazz (call it fusion if you will), it can be very useful
I do not have an edge of breakup amp but the EQ's booster are usually very "flat and clean" (like the empress or the ge-7) so not ideal to making an amp sounding "hotter". The RC booster is an exception... I am having my Shape EQ added with a new booster, amz mosfet, I can comment on that later... But my amps have so much clean headroom all I can get is a more "alive" sound but no actual grit
I would REALLY check the Wampler with very low gain, it has everything to work I guess.
PS - The Fat Mod seems to be close... but check that BYOC page. With that 3-way switch you can get stock TS, a little more bass, almost flat bass. I love it...Last edited by jorgemg1984; 07-10-2013 at 08:41 AM.
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I've used Tubescreamers for years and came to really dislike them. I had them modded (Keeley, etc) and had a few different takes from different builders. The one I liked the most was the Zendrive (which is kinda close to a tubescreamer in its basic circuitry but much more flexible).
The Mad Professor Sweet Honey is related to the Bearfoot Honey Bee in that BJFE designed them. Though they are different circuits, I think if you don't like one, you won't like the other.
Wampler makes a '57 Tweed overdrive, but it's for getting the cranked tones. Not really for the cleaner tweed tones. He also makes the Black '65 overdrive which might be good for the edge of breakup tones, but I haven't tried it.
I picked up a cheapo ($38 shipped new) Joyo American Sound pedal (Tech 21 Blonde clone). I'm really liking it going direct so far and with headphones. I will be trying it through my AI Clarus -> Raezers Edge cab very soon too. It has more gain/drive than it really should, but you can definitely dial it out and go from clearer blackface/silverface tones to fatter tweed like tones. You just need to keep the drive low and tweak it as you tweak the character/voice knob. It's not great for pristine cleans though. If I end up really liking it, I might get the Tech 21 version (which I had for a heartbeat and then sold in a GAS surge before really using it much).
There is one sure fire way to nail this old tone though... A real 5e3 Deluxe amp! Or a higher powered one so that it has a little more clean headroom, like the 25 watt version instead of 12 watt, like this builder can do reasonably: Lil Dawg 5E3 Tweed Deluxe, The D-Lux
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Anybody try a Timmy or it's cheap clone version, the Danelectro Transparent Overdrive v1? I have the later and it does a nice job of adding just the right amount of drive without mud. The Dano is fine for home or casual use but it's control layout sucks for more serious gigging. But it was only $45. If you gig a lot, get the Timmy.
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Hi guys,
I have been getting an awesome mid-rich jazz tone with a Fuchs Valve Job pedal:
Plush Pedals | The Valve Job
The gain can be turned down to zero distortion (or distortion so low I cannot hear it). This is probably unlike many of the pedals discussed above. I have been using this straight into FX loop return on both tube and Clarus amps (using pedal as a preamp). Sometimes a little EQ helps out, but often I use it direct (but with limited tone controls: tone knob on guitar, Tone and Touch knobs on pedal).
Andy
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Joe Pass sound was ES-175 about a 1961 from what I have been told and a Polytone amp most the time. Then most important is Joe Pass' hands and soul that's where his sound came from. The old legends didn't focus much on their amps. In the studio they left it to the recording engineer and many times used the studio's amps. Live most Jazz players are on tight budget so would use a club's amp or have one rented for them. They did send out list of preferred amps. I hear Wes had Super Reverb before Twin on his list. As Barney Kessell or maybe even it was was Pass that said "if an amp works, it's a good amp". I saw Pass, Kessell, Ellis, Roberts and others play live the common thing was their guitars that they cared about, for amps they'd dial in a tone and then just focused on what they were playing. Originally Posted by jnbrown
Last, Pass would use both pick and fingers depend on the song or part of a song. Sometimes he would start a song using fingers and later switch to his pick.
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No doubt about the personal touch and having grown up around recording studios I have experienced what amount of manipulation of sound is possible after the initial recording. Originally Posted by docbop
However I think what this thread is aiming at is to demystify and emulate the post recording chain.
It's given that the guitar can produce the round/warm tone we desire and that the player can play with dynamics and coax what they need from the instrument.
Then what we are looking at is a way to produce whatever fairy dust the engineer added to those recorded sounds.
Some desk preamp break up or compression from some old opto unit.
And then there's always the possibility that the guitar amp was breaking up a little.
There's a bunch of stuff out there to try.
Re the amp.
You would think that after working retail music for 10 years and selling hundreds if not thousands of guitar amplifiers of every brand and after trying every amp that was probably ever released during that time (around 1975 to 85) and being constantly on the look out for an amp that had some sweet break up....you would think that I would have found one.
But I never heard an amp that had that nice break up at lower volume.
Never plugged into an amp and thought....this is amazing!
The closest were my 2 Vox AC30's that I had back in 1990. They did have some of that mojo but you had to really crank them. Way to loud..........oh and I did have a plexi Marshall that would scream at really high volume.
So it's back to pedals. At least they are cheaper!Last edited by Philco; 07-10-2013 at 08:45 PM.
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Originally Posted by DRS
Heard really good things about the Timmy and I'll definitely check out the Danelectro.
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Originally Posted by maggles55
Now that looks VERY interesting.
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Being an electrical engineer I was curious about why some of these pedals cost so much.
For example the Zendrive at $300 to $400.
I found the schematic online and frankly the circuit is pretty simple and maybe amounts to $50 in parts if that.
Of course there is some cost in producing a circuit board and assembling it into an enclosure with pots.
I guess it explains why there are Zendrive clones for much less money.
I think there is also a mistaken perception that all these pedals that use analog circuits are somehow better than digital signal processing using a DSP. A single DSP can be programmed to behave like many different pedals. I am not saying that the companies selling DSP boxes have perfected them to sound exactly like a particular pedal or amp but in theory it could be done. I am not saying to give up your pedals and stop searching for a better one but there are other options.
I am currently using Garageband and learning how to tweak the sound. I like being able to plug my guitar into my Ipad with the Apogee Jam. Its a lot nicer than the Zoom G3 box I have that has way too many knobs and buttons and I can do multi track recording without being bound to a PC.
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Agree with you about the digital modelling. I can get very close to the sound I want by just going directly into Protools and using plugs. Amp simulators, overdrives, compressors. It really is game on inside the box. Originally Posted by jnbrown
It's more the live reproduction that I'm interested in.
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To be fair to Zendrive, they sold for $200 new. It was only when the original builder, Alf Hermida, announced he was getting out of the pedal game that they speculators on eBay started asking and getting $300+ for one. Lovepedal has resumed production and it's back to $200. Originally Posted by jnbrown
As far as your digital pedal comments, of course DSP pedals have the potential to recreate the sound of an analog pedal, it's just that, especially for overdrive and distortion, they don't even come close. There is a digital harshness and sheen that they can't shake and they never clean up like a good analog pedal.
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Heard this on the radio coming into work today. I had no idea it was JP until I got to work and checked the radio station web site. Just didn't sound like his style or tone. Its the more JP acoustic sound I was referring to that I usually don't don't care for. But in this case its a great sound. Originally Posted by Philco
I guess it goes to show you that the same player can produce totally different tones but both being great.
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I think DSPs are only as good as the people writing the algorithms. The reason they don't come close is they have not figured out the right algorithm to model the sound but theoretically it is possible. DSPs were not invented to model guitar amps but used for many other applications such as communications so amp modeling probably hasn't had the best science applied to it yet and the market for it may not be big enough to warrant such an investment. Also some analog filtering after the the D/A conversion can remove some the digital artifacts but I think this is usually done. Originally Posted by DRS
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ES175. He loaned it out to Wes Montgomery, too. Probably it sounds like Green because (1) a '59 ES330 Green's guitar sounds a lot like a 175, (2) at Van Gelder's studio they were both likely recorded through the same amp--Rudy's Fender Tweed Deluxe. Originally Posted by SamBooka
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I once had a long equipment discussion with Herb Ellis. Ellis played Polytone amps at the time. He said he thought most guys would play Fender Twins, if they could carry them. He was talking about mainstream jazz. Ellis said the economics of jazz precluded road crews. Sooooooo....if you can't carry it, don't play it. I got the impression that the old, low power tweed twin was Ellis' favorite. He said that the MiniBrute nailed that sound, at 25 pounds.
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Fender Excelsior looks like a very interesting amp for 50s style jazz/blues sounds.
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Not sure about that amp. Could be the Tele but I'm hearing a lot of that razor buzz in the tops. I'd like to try one with a different guitar though.
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Actually, I think I do hear distortion which is not that pleasing to my ears. But I hear it also in the piano, so I think the overall recording perhaps was recorded with too high a gain. Just an opinion, of course.
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The guitar that Kenny Burrell loaned to Wes was his ES175, not an L7. In fact, it's the one you see pictured above.
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The photo of Burrell in the polka-dot shirt was the cover photo from his album, "Tin Tin Deo" released by Concord Jazz--late 1970s or early 1980's (IMO, one of his finest albums). I believe that photo has been appropriated and reused as the cover for this reissue copy of the "Five Spot Cafe" album.
The other hails from the early to mid 50s--I have heard that Burrell played an ES 175 in the beginning, which this guitar obviously is. He was also a lot thinner way back then!
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No, L-7C with bar pickup. Burrell did'nt play,the 175 since 1958.
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Kenny Burrell's 'Midnight Blue' captivates me lately. Been listening to that album, and that particular song, almost 24/7 for the last couple of weeks.
I'm trying to figure out what guitar he used on that album. Mostly I see him with P90 equipped gibsons, but I could swear he used a guitar with a charlie christian pickup on that album.
He has this nice warm crisp 'hit' every time he hits that C7#9 chord in Midnight Blue, followed by a dark woody sustain. To me that combination is characteristic for a 150-ish guitar with CC pickup.
Can anyone confirm that?Last edited by Michiel; 01-07-2017 at 01:52 PM.
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Electrical buzzing advice sought please
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