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Hiya Patrick,
I have never worked on or played a Guild/Benedetto AA. They look great to me, and as a devout non-collector, they strike me as a bargain if one is looking for this sort of guitar.
I read the write up on yours - and even understanding the rhetorical flourishes of sales, it does seem to have really impressed as a superb guitar.
Love the finish as well.
In my opinion the Corona period may have been extremely important in developing the sensibilities that lead to the way Benedetto Guitars is run now in Savannah - with very skilled luthiers working under very much hands-on direction from the B-man his-self.
Under six-large for such a guitar strikes me as a bargain as already stated by more collector-minded guys.
Chris
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11-14-2012 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Patrick2
not to be picky, but it wasnt the first 18. i kept the article from the October 2004 issue of 20th Century Guitar Magazine when the special run was announced. there is a photo of Johnny Smith and Bob with the Corona team (Stephen Stern, Paul Walker, Jose Guerrero, and Gonzalo Madrigal) taken on Monday 8/9/2004. (Bob signed my certificate on 9-6-03)
The guitar included The Complete Roost Johnny Smith Small Group Sessions 8-CD box set. All included it was $11,000.00.
Fuller's Vintage Guitar had a honey blonde one and an opulent brown one at the Dallas Guitar Show in April 2005. Really pissed me off that I missed that run by one year!
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Bob was interviewed in JJG magazine in November 2005 and was asked about this guitar and the rest of his line. Some quotes:
"At the factory they use the same finishing process that I use. They even use the same lacquer formulated for musical instruments by Lawrence McFadden in Philadelphia. My team is not involved with that, however. We provide the finishing department with instruments sanded and ready to spray. The finishers refer to finished sample instruments that I made, and are very careful to adhere to the specs. The guitar is sprayed, buffed, and then returned to my department for final setup".
"For years, before signing with Fender, I admired the Guild Artist Award. I always liked the way it looked, but it was obvious that it was slipping in the marketplace".
"One facet of my contract with FMIC was to do just that-refine this model. Now it's carved and tuned from the finest European cello woods, and lightly x-braced with a 3" body depth".
"Aesthetically I was careful not to change it from a Guild to a Benedetto"
"The icing on the cake was when Bill Schultz, Fender's CEO, and Johnny Smith joined forces."... "It was a personal dream for him to expand FMIC into the jazz guitar market. So, the Artist Award is now, once agin -- after 40 years -- the Johnny Smith Award. And there I was, right in the middle of it!".
"I got to know Johnny over the years, even made him two guitars. My own models incorporate many of his design ideas. It has also been a privelage to work with the Guild staff. The result of our efforts is a Johnny Smith model that now overshadows the competition. I love that guitar!"
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ff . . . read the article. This is a pretty common fact and seems to be well supported.
The justjazzguitars Collection
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Originally Posted by Patrick2
you mean that it wasnt the "first" 18 that were signed? meaning, they had been making them awhile? (this article calls out the same date that i mentioned above, 8/2004 when they were signed, which is about a year after mine was signed by Bob and his team).
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Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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Hee-hee. The article (to which Patrick links) starts out by mis-naming Westerly, Rhode Island as "Waverly". So the author is either a Waverly tuner fan, a "Man From Uncle" fan, or maybe could do with some slightly enhanced fact-checking edits?
This is of course an unfair extrapolation from a simple factual error. Westerly, RI is a somewhat un-amazing place so maybe it does not inspire nominal accuracy.
Still a really fine looking guitar. Now stop it gents. What would happen if I got silly and dumped 6 big ones into such an axe?
Really, it does look like a fine deal for someone who wants a piece of that time and place, and of course a great guitar.
EDIT: I went back and re-read the article. It also includes a reference to a "TDK" case. Now TKL makes cases, TDK is an audio company - not known for guitar cases - but you can probably score some TDK VHS tapes cheaply on Ebay.
In my opinion this article is not a reasonable source to quote for basic facts. Any facts would require solid reference from somewhere (pretty much anywhere) else. This is in my opinion, and my interpretation of two simple facts that are easy to check, yet somewhat humo[u]rously incorrect.
ChrisLast edited by PTChristopher; 11-14-2012 at 09:32 PM.
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Originally Posted by Patrick2
this sunburst GBJS only has a signature on the f-hole tag...which seems odd given that many Benedetto's I've seen are all signed in the manner of the GBJS above.Last edited by 2bornot2bop; 11-05-2014 at 04:19 PM.
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Originally Posted by Archtop Guy
a beautiful case too. its all first class, trust me. Benedetto does it right, brother.
my more expensive Le Grand came in a really crappy case that Gibson outsources. My leather-bound Citation case is like Fort Knox however, and very nice if a "little" heavy (think Twin Reverb heavy)
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Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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yeah, probably started in his new Georgia shop. i think he's got a great business now. doin' it his way, but with more volume, and he's at the shop, and its his name on the bidness.
i need to buy another, come to think of it. scheming already.
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Wow gents. Does anyone have any idea whatsoever how the current Benedetto company is doing. I mean from a P&L perspective, and considering the change in pro-line distribution, etc.?
I certainly wish them well, but I have no idea how the business is actually going in these unusual times.
Any facts?
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Originally Posted by oldane
Last edited by Patrick2; 11-15-2012 at 11:31 AM.
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Originally Posted by PTChristopher
Last edited by Patrick2; 12-15-2012 at 11:58 AM.
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Bush's fault, right?
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Originally Posted by fumblefingers
Uh-oh . . . here come the politics police . . .
Don't worry guys (and gals) . . . just a quick little tongue in cheek humor between ff and myself.
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No politics here, but in my opinion the collector can sometimes take it quite far in building a personality story around a guitar or guitar builder/company.
If this heads well into a high orbit above any actual facts, maybe it can be misleading in the guise of enthusiasm. The Epi Byrdland is a good example. Great guitar and a great price. But rather than leave it at that, all sorts of stories have been told about it being "TOO GOOD" etc. - when there are absolutely no verified facts whatsoever to support the various tales that get build on this.
Anyway,...
I have zero info on the Benedetto Guitars business situation. But it does seem that there is indeed some significant downsizing and re-definition from the targets and business model first foreseen and described by the chairman.
Not a bad thing necessarily, and very possibly a good adaptation to the changing market.
ChrisLast edited by PTChristopher; 11-15-2012 at 12:35 PM.
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Given that the scale length is a stretch for some, and the GBJS is priced $600 from a L5 WesMo I've decided to pass.
If I'm going to pay $5600 for a 10 year old GBJS, it makes sense to pay $6200 for the 6 year old WesMo with all the appeal that archtop has. Well, that's my thinking...
Thx all for their input.
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Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
However, in comparing the two guitars' functionality against each other . . . the Wesmo couldn't touch the GBJS as it relates to acoustic and mildly amplified tone. On the other hand, the GBJS couldn't touch the Wesmo as it relates to amplified versatility in a band setting.
As for the comparisons that some have made in this thread of the newer GBJS and the older Westerly RI built Guild AAs . . . as a collector/player, my heart is firmly devoted to the Guild AA. I definitely will, eventually buy a late '70s blond AA with a floating D'Armond 110 Rhythm Chief pup.
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[quote=PTChristopher;269781]
No politics here,
but in my opinion the collector can sometimes take it quite far in building a personality story around a guitar or guitar builder/company.
If this heads well into a high orbit above any actual facts, maybe it can be misleading in the guise of enthusiasm.
I have zero info on the Benedetto Guitars business situation. But it does seem that there is indeed some significant downsizing and re-definition from the targets and business model first foreseen and described by the chairman.
Not a bad thing necessarily, and very possibly a good adaptation to the changing market.
Chris
I think Bob got a bit infront of himself, due to the high level of acceptance and demand for his guitars by some of the top jazzers . . vis-a-vis "The Benedetto Players". I think he mistakenly anticipated a huge pull through effect that would over come the very high price points of his products. The dealers need to realize a minimum of 30% margins for it to be worth their investment of speculatively stocking ultra high end guitars. That means that Bob would need to lower his price to the dealer by 30%, in order to keep his MSRP where it was prior to going through a dealer . . . (that wasn't gonna happen) . . . . or the MSRP would need to be raised to accommodate dealer margin . . . putting the price points well above what the market would tolerate.
Bob's guitars, at their price points, need to be a direct deal with the end user.
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Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
Suggestion . . . I really don't like how high that bridge saddle needs to sit on the base. In my opinion . . . get yourself a deeper saddle and roll those thumb wheels down . . . getting rid of the second set of thumb wheels. It's sitting up way too high and might, over time, pull the base studs forward, towards the head stock of the guitar. You don't want that to happen.Last edited by Patrick2; 11-15-2012 at 11:35 PM.
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Originally Posted by Patrick2
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[Me] >>> No politics here,
[Patrick] >>>Wimp!!
Oh man, now you made me spill my Chamomile,...
>>> Enthusiasm is probably 50% or better of a collectors psyche
100% agreed about the 50%. Much as I lack many personality traits, I just cannot plug into the collector grid for some reason. I must lack enthusiasm.
But I definitely value the collector contingent here. Very interesting perspectives.
>>> Gotta give Bob credit for having the coglioni (Bob's Italian . . so too are his balls) to attempt growing his business through a dealer venue. Either that, or criticize his lack of business accumen. It was a flawed business concept from the outset,
If I may opine with no info or apparent insight - it is possible that the business planning and level of applied acumen may be more from Mr Paul. You gots your guitar maker and your business guy.
Maybe (and probably not) the business guy wants to be take these great guitars and designs and build a new powerhouse from the ground up. You needs a dealer channel to move the volume - so hang the sense of it, we'll go with dealers.
Then you end up making all the actual sales yourself over the phone. Nobody cares about the dealers, they want to talk guitars with the source and become part of the "famiglia" (per intenderci) - and then buy the guitar.
Sooooo,... you have a useless channel chewing up margin and you sell lots of Bambini, which cost as much to make as a Bravo and you collect what - maybe $1,750 per Bambino?
Not a pretty picture.
I love my early-Savannah Bravo. A totally non-collectable guitar that just does the job great.
I really hope they make it all work down there. I hope they develop a long-term staff (but that means you gots to pay,...) and last forever.
Thanks for your views on this. And to silent readers, please note that this is all in my irresponsible opinion, probably fraught with error, and not intended to disparage any of the great people in the guitar business.
I really love the Benedetto guitars (both the workmen models and the spectacular flagship models) and the company ethos.
ChrisLast edited by PTChristopher; 11-15-2012 at 10:47 PM.
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PTChristopher: "I really love the Benedetto guitars (both the workmen models and the spectacular flagship models) and the company ethos."
me too,
from this:
Benny One-Off Spalted Alder | Benedetto Guitars
to this:
Benny One-Off in Sweet Tea | Benedetto Guitars
to this:
16-B One-off Custom Aquamarine Burst | Benedetto Guitars
to this:
Manhattan Autumnburst | Benedetto Guitars
to this:
L’Omaggio (The Homage) | Benedetto Guitars
to this:
Cremona 18″ | Benedetto Guitars
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Really amazing output from Savannah, especially when you show it like that.
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