Gibson vs. Heritage

**amusiathread** · 11-10-2012, 10:25 PM

Prefence is a powerful and complex thing. I'm not suggesting for a second that gibson owners should abandon their old favorites and buy up heritage guitars, because there is a difference. But I am saying that if I had bought a $6k gibson, only later to play a $3k heritage, I would feel cheated. I guess I've never had any kind of loyalty or nostalgia towards one brand or another, a good guitar is a good guitar, no matter what's on the heasdtock. I'm only speaking in terms of what it takes to make a good guitar. I just don't see spending the extra dough on a name, or on assurance of resale value. I'm more interested in quality.

**iim7V7IM7** · 11-10-2012, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop

A Sweet 16 single set pup in silver....first I've seen. gorgeous archtop...for sale?

Next year when my Comins arrives, yes...

**amusiathread** · 11-10-2012, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

knew you were wrong. here it is. $6704.00. take off 35%. thats $4,358.00

Gibson.com: Gibson Custom 1959 ES-175

if you can't make that happen, go to another store or sharpen up your negotiation skills.

Not the guitar I'm talking about.

**seafoamer** · 11-10-2012, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7

that's tasty-hot!

**Patrick2** · 11-10-2012, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by Jazz_175

I saw on the main page of the Forum guitar amps & Gizmos
that the last reply from Patrick2, so I said:
Ah Ah, I want to see what he has to say about this hot topic.
That was very interesting!

Sometimes, silence is deafening.

**NSJ** · 11-10-2012, 11:57 PM

Here's a guitar that's never mentioned much around here that is one of the best guitars I have ever played--a Heritage Prospect Std. I have sold a 1950s P90 ES 175 and a '74 Howard Roberts Custom, but the only guitar I ever regretted selling was my Prospect Std. ever.

I wound up replacing it with a ES -339, which I also love. Great playable guitar. But Gibson just jacked up the price on these by 50%! wow. It was the only "bargain" in the Gibby stable. No longer.

If you are in the market for a wonderful semi that has a rich, full and resonant sound and is ridiculously playable---Heritage Prospect Std--don't overlook it. It may be the find of your entire guitar collection in terms of playability.

**amusiathread** · 11-11-2012, 12:15 AM

I wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers, I apologize if that's what I've accomplished here. I'd be pretty put-off if I had spent a lot of money on a guitar (did I mention the gibson guitar was very nice?), and some guy came along and talked down the brand. No offense intened to you gibby lovers. I'm just wary of treading softly with the bigger brands. The money for advertisements, marketing, and artist endorsements has to come from somewhere, and I'm a little creeped out at the prospect of some guy from Green Day getting free products and publicity off of my dollar.

**Flyin' Brian** · 11-11-2012, 12:53 AM

The story of why Heritage isn't bigger is simple. But I'll let Patrick tell it when he's prepped.

**Jazz_175** · 11-11-2012, 04:23 AM

All of the reasons offered by Mr B'mont and PtChris might be true.
My idea is that one of the main reasons is that the brand that made the golden age of Jazz, Blues and Rock (50ties, 60ties, 70ties) was Gibson (together with Fender).
So they earned the status of a giant in the world of guitar brands.
It is extremely difficult to overturn such a state of things.

**Patrick2** · 11-11-2012, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

as i continue to point out, you need to take 35% off the Gibson MSRP.

Now what do you think?

Well, you also need to take 35% off of Heritage's MSRP as well.

**silhouette** · 11-11-2012, 10:36 AM

Well I have a Heritage 575, a Gibson 175 (1956) and a Gibson L4.
Which one do I play the most?
Without question the L4.
It is probably the closest to the 575 as they both have a solid top, back and sides. The neck pick-up is in the same position at the end of the neck. (I still think that makes a difference to the sound.) Although my 575 has an unbound neck, they both have excellent actions. However the L4 feels better and sounds better. Richer and more complex.
I also find the 575 headstock/scratchplate more difficult to love. + to get the sound I was after I had to replace the pick-ups with some Duncan Antiquities.
That said it is a fine guitar in its own right.

**Frank67** · 11-11-2012, 10:51 AM

At least for us folks here in Europe one very big difference is availability. Gibsons are available everywhere and you can check them out et etc. Heritage guitars are sold by one small store in Germany that is an exclusive dealer and he does not stock too much. If you don't happen to live nearby, the barrier ist just high. Used Heritages virtually don't exist here. I have no doubt that Heritages are great guitars, on par with Gibsons or often better. Dont't take me wrong - i really like Gibsons and have several even though i think they are usually too expensive.
Returning to Heritage i think that with a better website and a better distribution net i am sure they could have a bigger market share.

**silhouette** · 11-11-2012, 11:00 AM

These are my two for comparison.

**.02$** · 11-11-2012, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by NSJ

Here's a guitar that's never mentioned much around here that is one of the best guitars I have ever played--a Heritage Prospect Std. I have sold a 1950s P90 ES 175 and a '74 Howard Roberts Custom, but the only guitar I ever regretted selling was my Prospect Std. ever.

I wound up replacing it with a ES -339, which I also love. Great playable guitar. But Gibson just jacked up the price on these by 50%! wow. It was the only "bargain" in the Gibby stable. No longer.

If you are in the market for a wonderful semi that has a rich, full and resonant sound and is ridiculously playable---Heritage Prospect Std--don't overlook it. It may be the find of your entire guitar collection in terms of playability.

Hard to get a 339 with P90's choice of color and neck carve built to order this Prospect was $2400 with case - What would Gibson charge for something like this millie? $2000 new with case. It is just an alternative not an either or Gibson makes some stuff Heritage does not and vise versa.

**PTChristopher** · 11-11-2012, 11:04 AM

>>> Returning to Heritage i think that with a better website

What? You don't like the way they mention that they started in 1985 and are coming up on 25 years in the business?

But seriously, indeed the website is staggeringly unfortunate. Never mind the outdated comments, the photos make the guitars look cheap and gaudy. If I had to look quickly then comment, I'd guess they made blue and orange Gibson knock-offs.

Now we know that they make fine guitars. So what stops them from getting a pro photog' and a pair of 20-somethings (all named Ryan or Tiffany) to make the website look less amateur.

If the distribution is poor, then this is all the more reason to get Ryan and Tiffany going on a very good and visually solid website.

Any idea how many guitars they sell per year?

Chris

**fumblefingers** · 11-11-2012, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by amusiathread

Not the guitar I'm talking about.

its the es-175 reissue, just like you said, and its new.

what guitar are you talking about? is it on Gibson's site? or another?

i'm not convinced.

**fumblefingers** · 11-11-2012, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Patrick2

Well, you also need to take 35% off of Heritage's MSRP as well.

ok, was waiting for that.

but of course if the guitar costs a lot less, the discount is a lot less
when counted in dollars.

**fumblefingers** · 11-11-2012, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by silhouette

These are my two for comparison.

from your comments above its time to dump 'em both and get another L4 for backup. you can switch them out for equal playing time. saves fret wear.

other than that, the 175 wins the beauty contest with the Heritage. but then they all do. and yes, one would expect such a reality to affect pricing.

(props to the Golden Eagle and Sweet 16 in the looks department BTW).

**NSJ** · 11-11-2012, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by .02$

Hard to get a 339 with P90's choice of color and neck carve built to order this Prospect was $2400 with case - What would Gibson charge for something like this millie? $2000 new with case. It is just an alternative not an either or Gibson makes some stuff Heritage does not and vise versa.

Oooooh, that is really nice. I've wondered how custom is custom with H?

Like, I were to call them up and order a Prospect Std with neck pickup only, and have them slap a Charlie Christian on it? That would be something.

**Flyin' Brian** · 11-11-2012, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by PTChristopher

>>> Returning to Heritage i think that with a better website

What? You don't like the way they mention that they started in 1985 and are coming up on 25 years in the business?

But seriously, indeed the website is staggeringly unfortunate. Never mind the outdated comments, the photos make the guitars look cheap and gaudy. If I had to look quickly then comment, I'd guess they made blue and orange Gibson knock-offs.

Now we know that they make fine guitars. So what stops them from getting a pro photog' and a pair of 20-somethings (all named Ryan or Tiffany) to make the website look less amateur.

If the distribution is poor, then this is all the more reason to get Ryan and Tiffany going on a very good and visually solid website.

Any idea how many guitars they sell per year?

Chris

Agreed on the website.

They sell as many per year as they want to, which is always every guitar that they make. You have to go to the factory and see how things are done to understand that ultimately quality of life is much more important to the owners than pushing for the big bucks. That seems to be a misunderstood attitude in today's "more is better" world, and that very attitude is the reason for Heritage to begin with. They didn't want to uproot their families to follow Gibson to Tennessee. I find that refreshing and quite frankly is of of the reasons I have two and have had as many as 4 Heritage guitars. To me it speaks highly of their values.

**Frank67** · 11-11-2012, 01:22 PM

Point taken Brian - and really, that is fair enough. As long as they stay in business and their families can be supported. I also sympathize with not wanting to engage in the 'rat race'.

**Patrick2** · 11-11-2012, 01:42 PM

[quote=PTChristopher;268629]>>> Returning to Heritage i think that with a better website

What? You don't like the way they mention that they started in 1985 and are coming up on 25 years in the business?

But seriously, indeed the website is staggeringly unfortunate. Never mind the outdated comments, the photos make the guitars look cheap and gaudy. If I had to look quickly then comment, I'd guess they made blue and orange Gibson knock-offs.

Now we know that they make fine guitars. So what stops them from getting a pro photog' and a pair of 20-somethings (all named Ryan or Tiffany) to make the website look less amateur.

If the distribution is poor, then this is all the more reason to get Ryan and Tiffany going on a very good and visually solid website.

If Tiffany and Ryan were to modernize Heritage's web site, including great photography, that just might tremendously and exponentially increase orders . . . . then what would they do????

Any idea how many guitars they sell per year?

Yup!!!

**.02$** · 11-11-2012, 01:52 PM

[quote=fumblefingers;268634]from your comments above its time to dump 'em both and get another L4 for backup. you can switch them out for equal playing time. saves fret wear.

other than that, the 175 wins the beauty contest with the Heritage. but then they all do. and yes, one would expect such a reality to affect pricing.

/quote]

How custom is custom at Heritage? I really wanted an L4 for years. Gibson in natural was over $5K. This came in under 4K with case, Throbaks, 5 piece maple 25 1/2 neck carved to my specs and a cupids bow. Heritage calls it a 575 custom.

**Patrick2** · 11-11-2012, 02:05 PM

Chris[/quote]

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

ok, was waiting for that.

but of course if the guitar costs a lot less, the discount is a lot less
when counted in dollars.

OK . . . . . . ??? . . .

**Patrick2** · 11-11-2012, 02:14 PM

[quote=.02$;268661]

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

from your comments above its time to dump 'em both and get another L4 for backup. you can switch them out for equal playing time. saves fret wear.

other than that, the 175 wins the beauty contest with the Heritage. but then they all do. and yes, one would expect such a reality to affect pricing.

/quote]

How custom is custom at Heritage? I really wanted an L4 for years. Gibson in natural was over $5K. This came in under 4K with case, Throbaks, 5 piece maple 25 1/2 neck carved to my specs and a cupids bow. Heritage calls it a 575 custom.

Actually . . . that is an H575 Custom . . . but, with additional custom spec's. (It's also really pretty!!)

Just to address fumblefingers' comments on a "beauty contest" . . I would assume you're talking about the oft' maligned Heritage head stock?? Because, other than that, it would be very hard for you or anyone else to make a case that an ES 175 is any more beautiful than a Sweet 16 . . or even an H575. You could, however, make an argument that to you the 175 would win such a contest . . just as others could make an argument that it wouldn't. That's the subjectivity of guitar aesthetics. But, so too is the head stock issue.