Why Are Eastman Archtops So Polarizing?

[StevieB]

I cannot think of any other musical product (with the exception of Elixer strings) that are so polarizing.

People seem to either love them or hate them.

Personally I don't believe Eastman (or Elixer for that matter) has any more quality control issues than other manufacturers - and they make consistent products - so it is a head scratcher for me.

Any thoughts?

[Klatu]

There are some who can't wrap their heads around top quality products coming out of China.

Patience . . . they'll come around.

[Tom Karol]

Actually, I use Elixers on my Eastman!

[Top of the Arch!]

Ive owned several and currently owe one. Ive found them to be either very well made or lacking in what I would call "real quality control". I had a T 185 that the fret ends in the upper register bass side were never seated,you could actually stick a thin pick between the fret and fingerboard. The 810 played ex. but after 6 mos there started to be a weird buzz that my luthier traced to kerfing that wasnt glued properly. My ElRey 1,also played great but developed seam seperation issues. The 150 I currently own is 100%,plays and sounds ex. no issues what so ever. They seemed to have addressed the brittle lacquer issue as the newer ones are much more durable. Just my 2 cents.

[Gabe]

They seemed to have addressed the brittle lacquer issue as the newer ones are much more durable. Just my 2 cents.

That's great news. I'd love an El Rey 2 in the future to match my T186 but I've always been a bit nervy about the finish being so brittle.

[PTChristopher]

>>> Why Are Eastman Archtops So Polarizing?

Because they offer a truly new proposition of price/value/features. This draws strong opinions. Simply stating "what it is" is not nearly the ego-centric (and deeply ego-boosting) exercise of stating "what it means".

Reviews and meaning-of-life opinions are an ego-boost. The Eastman proposition encourages this.

In my opinion.

>>> They seemed to have addressed the brittle lacquer issue

This is somewhat ironic. "Brittle lacquer" was used for decades on the finest instruments. It is often prized as part of the vintage holy grail. It is arguably best for "tone", and neck feel. It is very much subject to checking as the wood moves far more easily than the lacquer.

But yes, I would also prefer a modern lacquer such as the McFadden/Seagrave, the Behlen (Mohawk) Stringed Instrument Lacquer, or the Cardinal lacquer.

The Gibson lacquer is going too far in my opinion. It is soft and sticky - but does resist checking (and warranty complaints) significantly. Many Gibson fans play the goo with no trouble at all.

Chris

[Jonathan0996]

Interesting thread. I didn't know Eastmans were so polarizing.

I've never owned one, so I don't have any strong feelings one way or another. I tried a couple, and almost bought a Pisano at one point, but chose not to for a couple reasons. I liked the guitar well enough, but the idea of spending $3K on a Chinese guitar when there were U.S. made instruments of similar quality available at similar prices didn't set well with me. In the end, I spent my $3K on a Holst, for better or worse. It makes me feel better to give that work to an American luthier.

Not to be nationalistic about it, but China's record of currency manipulation and infringement of intellectual property rights (not to mention human rights) has always troubled me. We all buy all kinds of stuff from them all the time, but I'd rather not give them a big chunk of money if I have a viable choice. It's their country and they can do what they want, but it's also my $3K.

I also think a lot of people have some concerns about resale value, although it wasn't an issue for me. I'm not too sure about the resale value on the Holst either. However, the future value of an L-5 or an ES-175 is pretty predictable. While predicting the future value of Asian instruments has become somewhat easier in recent years, not everyone is fully comfortable with the idea of upscale Chinese guitars yet.

There's also suspicion in some circles about the quality of their finishes, the toxicity of their paint, and the environmental and labor standards under which they manufacture. I don't know if there's any "there" there, but I feel good about my buying decision.

All that said, Eastman seems to make some great guitars. When it comes to making music, you buy a guitar to express yourself. I've certainly heard some wonderful sounding Eastman guitars. To each his own.

[Patrick2]

I've got my own strong opinions on this matter. But, some things are better left unsaid on an open forum. I can, however, sum it up . . (my own opinion) in a single word. Resentment!

[Top of the Arch!]

Ive owned tons of vintage Gibsons etc. in my 45 years playing guitar but Ive never seen any Gibson with lacquer like the older Eastmans. There was nothing desireable about Eastmans finishes on the ones I had a few years ago.

[monkmiles]

A: The builders build them while wearing polarized glasses!

[2bornot2bop]

Interesting thread. I didn't know Eastmans were so polarizing.

I've never owned one, so I don't have any strong feelings one way or another. I tried a couple, and almost bought a Pisano at one point, but chose not to for a couple reasons. I liked the guitar well enough, but the idea of spending $3K on a Chinese guitar when there were U.S. made instruments of similar quality available at similar prices didn't set well with me. In the end, I spent my $3K on a Holst, for better or worse. It makes me feel better to give that work to an American luthier.

Not to be nationalistic about it, but China's record of currency manipulation and infringement of intellectual property rights (not to mention human rights) has always troubled me. We all buy all kinds of stuff from them all the time, but I'd rather not give them a big chunk of money if I have a viable choice. It's their country and they can do what they want, but it's also my $3K.

I also think a lot of people have some concerns about resale value, although it wasn't an issue for me. I'm not too sure about the resale value on the Holst either. However, the future value of an L-5 or an ES-175 is pretty predictable. While predicting the future value of Asian instruments has become somewhat easier in recent years, not everyone is fully comfortable with the idea of upscale Chinese guitars yet.

There's also suspicion in some circles about the quality of their finishes, the toxicity of their paint, and the environmental and labor standards under which they manufacture. I don't know if there's any "there" there, but I feel good about my buying decision.

All that said, Eastman seems to make some great guitars. When it comes to making music, you buy a guitar to express yourself. I've certainly heard some wonderful sounding Eastman guitars. To each his own.

Wow, there's lots in that post!

I'll say the 3 Pisano's I've owned were all bought used between $1k and $1200...each had lacquer checking, which is why the prices were so low. I've observed several as new Pisano's sell for $1700. One can't expect a strong return on anything bought for full retail, imo. I've owned 10 Eastmans and nary a single issue with them. My remaining Eastman is an arched back flattop, that truly sings...nothing touches it in the flattop world that I've come across. The guitar smoked a Guild JF65, which was comparable in design.

[woyvel]

>>>

Reviews and meaning-of-life opinions are an ego-boost.
Chris

That's just too cerebral...and completely accurate.

[Spook410]

Polarizing for two reasons: their early quality was mixed and they represent a value proposition rooted in the disparity of what an hour worked costs in China versus the US and Europe.

The first, quality, is generally accepted as a resolved concern.

Theoretically, a free market will address the second. The price of imports will rise while the price of US made guitars will either drop or stay the same.

Does the US compete on the world stage more fairly than China? Odd to me that some people actually believe that but that would be politics, not guitars.

[NSJ]

Uh, guys, Eastman is an American company. You know, like Apple.


Anyway, the crux of the matter is, there are so many wonderful guitars being made today, many of which are affordable. We have a glut of choice today, that our pioneers working in the world of Stronmberg/Gibson/D'Angelico/Guild did not have.

It's hard to go wrong with all the well-made affordible guitars out there today. Including Eastman.

Think I'll go play my El Rey ER-1 7 string now. Yeah, the finish dings easy. But so what? I'm not collecting it, and it sounds great.

[Klatu]

Uh, guys, Eastman is an American company. You know, like Apple.


Anyway, the crux of the matter is, there are so many wonderful guitars being made today, many of which are affordable. We have a glut of choice today, that our pioneers working in the world of Stronmberg/Gibson/D'Angelico/Guild did not have.

It's hard to go wrong with all the well-made affordible guitars out there today. Including Eastman.

Think I'll go play my El Rey ER-1 7 string now. Yeah, the finish dings easy. But so what? I'm not collecting it, and it sounds great.

Where did you go to find out that it's an American owned company?

[Norman931]

I own two Eastmans, an AR810NC and an AR371. Great bang for the buck. As far as Chinese guitars go, these are on top of the pile.

[Space Pickle]

Actually, I use Elixers on my Eastman!

oh snap

[PTChristopher]

Deleted way off topic post.

[Retroman1969]

I love my Chinese Eastman. I also live my American Martin. Both just great guitars made by people who know which side is up, so to speak.
The national and political thing gets so old and is so pointless. So their government does things we don't like... Guess what? MY government does things I don't like. The same people that make that argument are the same ones that puff their chest at owning a Mexican made Ford or a Canadian made Chevy, while my owning a Nissan made in Tennessee is tantamount to dancing with the devil.

Really I think the majority of it is that kind of thinking right there.

[Top of the Arch!]

Keeping politics out of it. I think the biggest thing is the spotty quality,the ones I had problems with were ones I bought a few years ago. My AR 150 is a year old and as I said,its fine.

[Jonathan0996]

Anyway, the crux of the matter is, there are so many wonderful guitars being made today, many of which are affordable. We have a glut of choice today, that our pioneers working in the world of Stronmberg/Gibson/D'Angelico/Guild did not have.

It's hard to go wrong with all the well-made affordible guitars out there today. Including Eastman.

I agree; this is the golden era of affordable guitars.

I'm old enough to remember when cheap guitars were unplayable dogs that couldn't even be set up properly. Then CNC changed the world. NSJ has it right: There are now lots of good quality affordable choices, including Eastman.

[Chimera1to1]

Eastman US careers link Careers

I quote......"All applicants must be able to setup a minimum of 12 instruments per day"

and that's at their store in the US.

I wonder how much hand-crafted time a guitar recieves from an employee working in Eastman China?

[bohemian46]

"All applicants must be able to setup a minimum of 12 instruments per day"

Like some other instrument companies based in America.. it's all about the numbers.

Read the rest of the requirements such a s gluing loose braces and fixing cracks, making nuts and saddles.

[Top of the Arch!]

"All applicants must be able to setup a minimum of 12 instruments per day"

Like some other instrument companies based in America.. it's all about the numbers.

Read the rest of the requirements such a s gluing loose braces and fixing cracks, making nuts and saddles.

Gee,you think that stuff would have been done at the factory.

[mr. beaumont]

At least they do setups...I can think of a few big American companies who don't...