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Hello PTC
I have been working with Cardinal on trying to use their lacquer. Unfortunately, in a factory setting, you cant just flip a switch and change, so it is a process of test and analysis. It is hands down the best instrument Lacquer avaliable, and is beyond even the Seagrave and Mohawk stuff in my opinion. I painted some guitars when i was in China late last month, so when i see how they lasted in shipment, it will probably be the deciding factor.
We use a lacquer base coat, 3 coats a day, 3 days, leveling between each stage.
Thanks for the support!
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11-14-2012 11:52 AM
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8mm i believe, that was before my time here, however, it is a metric sized nut.
Originally Posted by 4mal
I will check an old piece we have here at the shop and confirm for you.
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Sweet! Thanks and let CS know they can ignore my email, and please consider my PM here to you as answered.
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(A bit off topic.. but we're informal here) Originally Posted by PFC @ Eastman
4mal - it's more than just size of the nut. Some wrench ends fit and some don't given the confines of the space. I use a Wiha nut driver (english, not metric) on my Yunzhi's which are similar to Eastman's and it fits perfectly. However, many sockets and box ends do not. So.. it's more than just the nut itself.
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Originally Posted by Jazz_175
An American company that builds guitars in China with Chinese labor ...
and some of us would prefer to spend our guitar buying cash on US, Canadian, or European made guitars rather than send more money to China
On the other hand they are not just placing orders from an already existing guitar company and having their names placed on the headstock.
The big difference I see is that Eastman runs its own factory and is trying to run it with quality craftsman who know what they are doing
And in my opinion they have been getting better at it with each year
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Yah, off topic to be sure... Not much polarizing about a TR nut. Well there is the whole English vs Metric thing but I try not to get worked up about that :-) Originally Posted by Spook410
I generally go with the actual tool as opposed to the independant socket routine for the same reason, that is space. The tools I used on my Godin A series and 80's Guild are a little different and it appears that the Eastman will be yet another... Which is fine. Up here in the Great North Wet (pun intended of course) wood never really dies... Or is it drys ? Either way, I've learned a ton more about setup work here than other, drier places I've lived. A small price to pay though...
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i read the first couple of pages and then became fatigued with all the political posturing and skipped to the end, so forgive me if i missed any meaningful posts.
I remain a fan of Eastman and have purchased three of their archtops over the years and enjoyed them all. I recommend the line to anyone looking for a good sounding instrument in that price category, and I plan to buy another one of these days. Personally I find Gibson to be far more polarizing a brand than Eastman, but that is my opinion.
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At this point it should be worth mentioning that also Fender (probably the most important American guitar brand) Originally Posted by Bluedawg
and Guild (owned by Fender?) have several guitar models made in China.
Just follow these links on The Gear Page and you can delve into this subject.
Guitars made in China - The Gear Page
Fender guitars - not Squier - made in China - The Gear Page
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Originally Posted by Jazz_175
Chinese luthiers are definately stepping up their game ...
I see them where Japan was in the mid to late 70s and korea in the 90s ... starting to deliver quality guitars and getting some respect
I still see political and moral issues when it comes to buying Chinese products when there are other choices available ... but that's an individual decision .. I don't pretend to tell others how to spend their money.
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I can only speak for acoustic archtops.
Polarizing...yes, and for all the reasons already stated plus this: it is impossible to tell the guy that has spent $5000-$10,000 on a vintage L-5 or the like that a Chinese made copy can equal or outperform his "old noble". However, the CNC machine has leveled the playing field, and that means a Chinese import has the potential for the same consistency and refinement under good management as an American production guitar.
I own 4 Eastmans: 810nc, 610nc, 805nc SB, and an 805NC dealer exclusive blonde with super figured wood. The older 805 NC SB has some checking. Not a big deal to me. With what I have spent on the Eastmans, I certainly could have bought a vintage original. However, after testing them side by side, I chose not to!
I play my Eastmans hard and force every bit of volume out of them I can when playing swing. No loose glue joints, no rattles, no problems of any kind.
I don't do flattops, but a friend of mine bought an Eastman flattop so that he could leave his vintage Martin at home. He says now he only plays the Eastman because it's more even further up the neck.
My father's Gibson J200 has checking....A Gibson 335 that I almost bought a couple of months ago I rejected because it had a flaccid neck and an unburnished lacquer (or whatever they use nowadays) line at the fingerboard! Completely unacceptable at $2400.
Buy what meets your music's needs, and play what inspires you to play. Country of origin and collectability have no bearing on this.Last edited by 10course; 11-08-2015 at 12:23 AM.
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We played what was probably our last outdoor gig Friday night. The patrons had gas heaters and huddled up with their cocktails, management didn't see fit to spare one for the stage. Knowing this would most likely be the situation, I oped to do the gig with my Pisano 880 instead of my Benedetto Cremona, and I'm glad I did. The JP did a super job and stayed completely sable tuning wise and sounded great. The B would have made it fine too, but I was a happy camper not "fretting' about the B in cold temps. We have a jazz brunch this morning and the B will get the work, it's inside.
I love my 880, it's a fine instrument. The first Eastman I ordered back around 2000 was a 7 string that was a train wreck. I sent it back and bought a AF-207. I watched Eastman at NAMM steadily improve, mostly around 2005ish and ordered a 880. No regrets!
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I remember buying a really very early 810ce prototype and found Eastman had a Yahoo Groups page. I read every post from the inception to when it finally went dark (Yahoo closed down most of it's Groups). It was very educational to see a company take on making fine arch top guitars in China and distributing them in The States. They had a lot of small problems along the way, but they always strived to make every issue right: replacing the original tailpieces with a brass/ebony one, then improving the design on those and so on. One of the very finest guitars I have ever owned is that early 810 prototype.
Polarizing, well folks have a hard time wrapping their brains around guitars made in countries other than the U.S. - especially hand carved arch tops. Their loss because companies like Eastman broke ground and have really produced some stellar gear. And they didn't rest on their laurels, like Ibanez did in the very late 70s, Eastman has slowly morphed from copying classic designs to making unique and performance worthy instruments. Look at the El Rey line, The Pisano line, some of the semi-hollow types like the T184-6 range, the Pagelli lineup. all very finely executed variations on the old themes. I have 5 guitars, 4 were built in China, one in Japan. I love them all. When someone plays one of my Eastmans or Mr Wu guitars they rave how comfortable and well built and gorgeous they are. I got all these guitars for about what a 90s L-5 would cost. My momma taught me to be a smart shopper.
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"I cannot think of any other musical product (with the exception of Elixer strings) that are so polarizing."
OK, old thread revival time...
Hogwash... D'Angelico, Mexican Fenders, Epiphone Gibson copies, Pre-CBS/post CBS guitars, Silverface/blackface amps, "vintage" vs. modern guitars, this brand tube / that brand tube, pup, pot, cap, clone guitars, headstock design, fingerboard material, Brand X loyalty, U.S./Japan/Korea/China built, which factory is better, this player versus THAT player... the list is endless.
A major part of this industry is caught up on polarizing minutiae, it's ridiculous.
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It's not hard to see why Eastman guitars are polarizing; what I don't get is why Eastman owners care what others think. What value is there in impressing anonymous internet blowhards?
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Other than a few gearhead fans that come out to hear us, nobody gives a rat's butt about what I'm using on a gig or where it was made. I do get a lot of ooh's and aw's when I use the B, however I think that is more for the inlay work, which I could take or leave, on the B as opposed to the plain but elegant 880. Originally Posted by Klatu
It is interesting that the Pisano line/design left off the brand on the headstock. I would have bought it either way based on its merits.
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I've owned the following Eastman guitars 805CE,810CE,880JP,803CE Custom and an El Rey 2 models. This has been over the last 7 years or so. All of them were excellent instruments as well as hand made. I actually preferred them to the Heritage guitars that I at one time owned as well (just a matter of taste, not the quality).
I think the bashing comes in mainly because of the mind set of Chinese made equals cheaply made and lower quality materials. As well as the resentment of lower wage workers competeing w/ USA and European labor costs. I can relate to that and understand the labor argument. But that said, all of us spend more money consistantly on cheaply made clothes ,food, home ,auto,etc. So that boat sailed last century.
Okay so now I recently had a custom made archtop commisioned by Frans Elferink (Tone Master model). The result is I am selling both of the Eastmans 810CE and 803CE. Mainly because I ownly need 1 archtop and have no need for 3.
The Eferink Tone Master is a much heavier built archtop in the Gibson vein w/ thicker top and back. This produces a different tone compared to the thinner carved tops of the Eastmans. The Eastman's sound more modern w/ less midrange compared to the Elferink. Can the Eastman's sound great? Yes! Do they sound the same ? No! Are the Eastmans quality construction? Yes! Can most people afford a high end archtop? No!
Conclusion: Eastman offers 90-95% of a quality archtop at about 1/3 the cost , so most people can own a real carved instrument!
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As someone who has proudly played an Eastman 805 non-cut for over 10 years (and owned two 810ce's as well) before ending up with three excellent examples of vintage acoustic archtop guitars ('32 L-5, '32 Deluxe, '35 L-12), I feel uniquely qualified to speak to your point. Originally Posted by 10course
My Eastman 805 was easily among some of the best sounding acoustic archtops I played for a long time, and given how often vintage guitars are poorly set up when encountered in the wild, a well set-up Eastman often beat the vintage guitars I would come across. Especially when it came to projection, because so many vintage acoustic archtops, if set up at all, are set up for action and gauge too light to properly drive the top (which need not be excessive either), are properly set-up and broken-in Eastman is formidable.
However, there is something that you can't get an Eastman to do... that is already 70-80 years old. So, although at least some Eastmans are made very, very well, and perform amazingly, they can't compete at the same level as an excellent 80-year old guitar. However, there are plenty of contexts where the difference between them would be too subtle to matter.
So, a sub $1500 acoustic archtop that can out perform many of the vintage guitars found for sale in the wild, but might not be as good a really good vintage Gibson or Epi, is still a friggin' amazing value, and is probably still enough quality to make amazing music. Hell, for my New Years' gig last year I played a borrowed Loar LH-600, and it performed perfectly. And I doubt bringing my L-5 this year will really change how good the music will be. But, I'll certainly enjoy playing the L-5 ever so slightly more.
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I have the luxury of living very close to Elderly Instruments and have a chance to play many amazing instruments, so when it came time to purchase another arch top I headed down to play everything sub $1500 new and used. Well that pretty much put all the Gibsons even the bad ones out of my price range. Then came the new ( Korean) built and used Guilds. I really thought I would find one with almost a dozen in stock but the short scale & weight turned me off. Then I tried the Gretsch guitars. Heavy poly finishes and short scale again. The last guitar I picked up was an Eastman 403CE. It was light as a feather, nice thin almost organic looking finish and a 1 3/4" wide 25" scale neck. All the things I was looking for but not costing $3000 and up. For some of us who are not collectors, or professional musician's Eastman offers at a price point excellent value for the money. I for one who has spent thousands of dollars on American made banjos and guitars am glad Eastman exist.
DaveLast edited by superdave; 11-08-2015 at 06:20 PM.
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eastmans are way better than gibson or heritage or even benedetto, koontz, anderson or Trenier.
Please buy my Eastman T386 https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/sale/...tman-t386.html
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Good one Jack!
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I tried a few several years ago. They were OK but none of them really grabbed me - I felt them to be just...stiff.
(Plus, the little cheesy salesman was grating on my nerves, repeating the words 'great sounding, ain't it?' as I strummed, staring blankly at him.)
Leaving Gibson archtops aside, I would prefer to commission a US, Canadian or European luthier to do the job. I can speak to the person, express my preferences, get some after market assistance, if needed, etc. There are lots of them that do exceptional work. We all know who they are.
Granted, they are pricey, and so maybe that's where the Asian guitars come in.
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yay, an Eastman thread from 2012 is back. woo.
I no longer have an Eastman but I would definitely buy one again in the future with no hesitation.
Gibson? not likely.
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Oh shoot, this is my fault....I didn't mean to rekindle a dull or hated subject. ---I considered selling my used 2007 Eastman 805NC to another member on this board and realized I didn't know the market value since there was a trade involved in me buying this particular guitar. I started reading everything Google turned up on Eastman....this thread came up. It seemed relevant because it could give insight on desirability....
Also, I overlooked something in my post which campusfive caught: aged wood certainly gives vintage instruments an advantage. ---Which I don't think any newly made guitar can duplicated.
The irony: in searching and reading all these things, I decided not to sell the 805 yet!---Might not be able to find another if I needed it.
So here, I will sign off -----and read the date on the post before adding next time
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Sometimes when people ask about my amp I tell them it's a tube. They're all like, "Yeah that has good tone and blah blah blah.
" They'll play my guitar and say, "Hey that was a great guitar. What kind was it?" I tell the it's a heritage. "Oh yeah they used to work for Gibson, great guitars."
I pack up my solid state Marshall and Eastman and walk out with a smug grin.
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Good story. I was studying at a week-long seminar with Jim Hall at Guitar Summer Workshp back in the late '80s --OMG, was that great!-- and I had my Fender D'Aquisto Elite with me. I actually had a couple of guys come over on separate occasions and casually mention that, nice guitar, but you "really can't play jazz on a Fender". Originally Posted by Thecytochromec
Sometimes when people ask about my amp I tell them it's a tube. They're all like, "Yeah that has good tone and blah blah blah." They'll play my guitar and say, "Hey that was a great guitar. What kind was it?" I tell the it's a heritage. "Oh yeah they used to work for Gibson, great guitars."
I pack up my solid state Marshall and Eastman and walk out with a smug grin.
More to the thread's topic, besides my D'Aquisto, I also have several Eastmans, and, hey, they are indeed great guitars. Apparently, I don't really care what's written on the headstock.
Last edited by ooglybong; 11-09-2015 at 11:16 PM.
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