Poor Eastman guitar quality

[Munk]

About a half year ago I searched the market for a quality guitar. I found many recommendations of Eastman in here and as I also loved the sound, I surrendered and paid over the edge of the budget for one of their top models.

Coming home, I realized, that the new guitar wasn’t really so new, causethe label inside said manufactured year 2006. The following months I went through many problems with the guitar. Buzzing from the box, hissing from the electric system, tone control suddenly not working at all, the bridge bending and the pick guard falling off, just to mention some of the most important issues.

In just about a half year I have had it repaired five times, and even paid the fourth times myself, though that time was in connection to the shop. And the result is still high buzzing, which comes and goes, but mostly stays, and still errors in the electrical system.

When I mentioned some of these in another thread, I was told, that year 2006 was a very bad year with Eastman quality, that it is better now and that I should take advantage of the Eastman life time warranty.

So I did. First, the message from the dealer was, that I should bring it to the shop, so he would try to fix it again himself. Not only is he not a technician and going to the shop will every time take me most of a working day. But also his luthier, who is a quite respected guy, has had it for thorough review twice, and criticized the guitar very bad as something cheap crap, when he fixed several loose parts.

Fortunately I had this sparkling life time Eastman guaranty, so I contacted the company. But the conclusion from them, like it or not, is that they have handled the distribution to somebody else, who have a mail address which don't exist, and Eastman don’t seem to recognize that it’s their duty to live up to their glitter. In other words they have sold the responsibility, so they can continue to promise what nobody here are prepared to live up to.

Instead Eastman suggested me, that I got it repaired for the six times in just about a half year. I now begin to understand the real meaning of the guaranty. It’s a guaranty for life time problems and repairs. It has already cost me a lot more than I paid, and I need to find other solutions for the future. Maybe I can find someone, who are ready to buy a buggy 2006 Eastman, so I instead can buy a cheaper and more solid brand.

[PTChristopher]

Munk,

I understand your frustration, and your description of the seemingly poor accountability toward the warranty.

For laughs:

- I do not think that 2006 was a "bad year" at Eastman. If anything, it seemed to be about when they really smoothed out the bumps.

- If you wanted the shortest and lowest cost route from where you are to a fine guitar, it is very likely that fixing the Eastman is the way to go. I understand that this may not be satisfying in terms of the warranty.

I do not, in any way, want to belittle the repair trip count, or distributor contact trouble - but could I ask you to very briefly describe exactly what is actually wrong with the guitar at this point?

Chris

[rpguitar]

Also, if this is a 900 series model, how is the guitar if you take off all of the electronics and the pickguard? In other words, can it be set up properly and played as an acoustic guitar? If so, then you have the essence of what you need and it's just a matter of sorting out the (admittedly very annoying) electronic stuff. However, that's the stuff that CAN be easily taken care of most of the time.

[Munk]

PTChristopher

After having it repaired five times and now going again, and in a half year, without counting transportation plus time, I have already have spent 1/7 of the price of the new guitar nevertheless it’s warranty, so I’m having doubts whether this is the lowest cost route. I mean, it has been at 3 different places with good reputation and plenty of experience with guitar repairment.

One of the remaining issues is a loud buzz, which have been there since the first days. Actually it has two kinds of buzz, but one of them is less noticeable and able to live with if you don't expect too much of your guitar. The other is periodical and sounds as coming from inside the box. Sometimes it disappears for a few days, for example after small changes in temperature or after I gave it a little more relief or when a technician raised the nut or another changed springs in the pickup for some made of rubber. I tend to believe there is something loose inside the box – a wire or something - maybe a combination. In the last repair shop they said it could also be something serious inside, and the mentioned smth about the pieces of wood in there, (sorry my English skills)

Besides this I had recently a cutting hiss in the amp. This disappeared when the tone control completely stopped working.

rpguitar

It’s a Pisano AR880CE. I also think it need some kind of restoration of it’s electronics. However I’m not in a position to experiment with this myself, besides it has extra costs to let a professional do it, so maybe better to look for a cheap second hand guitar.

[PTChristopher]

>>> repaired five times and now going again, and in a half year, without counting transportation plus time, I have already have spent 1/7 of the price of [...] at 3 different places [...]

I understand the frustration. But what is past is also called "sunk costs", and has no bearing on the question of where are you now, and where do you want to go.

If you feel that you can sell the Pisano and buy an inexpensive guitar with which you will be happier, then you know your situation best.

Again, possibly it can be almost interesting sometimes to just look at the actual guitar.

>>> two kinds of buzz, but one of them is less noticeable and able to live with if you don't expect too much of your guitar.

Calmly and clearly looking at the guitar is really hard if the descriptions are loaded with expectations vs. simple description. This is especially tricky over the internet.

>>> when a technician raised the nut or another changed springs in the pickup for some made of rubber.

Raising the nut? Why? What was measured and then changed?

As for the PU springs, they are VERY RARELY an actual problem. But yes I sometimes have changed them for silicone tubing. This does reduce the swing of the PU slightly and can reduce rattle, even though the springs themselves were not actually rattling. The real PU rattle (common on many top-mount HB hollow bodies) is often between the PU and the mounting ring. Easy to fix with black EVA foam.

To me this sounds like a real mess of very minor difficulties that are not clearly and simply identified. It also seems that the minor problems have only had efforts at chasing them down piecemeal vs. a clear and simple description followed by a careful approach to solutions.

EDIT: By a "real mess" I do not at all necessarily mean that the guitar is a real mess. It could have as little as just one failed solder joint and a VERY typically loose component.

>>> In the last repair shop they said it could also be something serious inside, and the mentioned smth about the pieces of wood in there,

"Inside" is easy to see with a mirror. Yes it can be tricky to find an actual buzzing brace, but this is also unlikely.

If I may suggest:

1. Drop the count of visits for repairs, lost time, and general weltschmerz. Better to sell the guitar or focus on fixing it. (In my opinion which may seem obnoxious, but it also may be the shortest path, by far, to getting the guitar sorted out.)

2. Does your guitar in fact have a mechanical buzz? This seems to be the case. If so, have you looked at all the simple classic sources of mechanical buzz? There are several very good threads on it here - so maybe no need to start yet another buzz-list.

3. Does your guitar have electrical problems? This seems to be the case. The electronics of your guitar are absurdly simple. A genuinely competent tech can completely re-wire your guitar in less than an hour with less than $20 in parts. A competent tech who cares can likely find the problems and fix them in 20 minutes with $5 in materials. It may be possible that simply bringing the guitar to a very competent tech, leaving out the long tale of trouble, and simply asking him/her to fix the electronics will be the shortest and cheapest path to fixing the electrical troubles. (Or you can sell the guitar and hate Eastman I guess - which strikes me as expensive and tiring.)

Munk, I know this sounds harsh. But you have been un-enjoying this guitar for maybe quite a while now. Maybe it is time to just move forward based on the actual situation vs. what we all wish the situation to be.

In my obnoxious (but sometimes rather effective guitar-fixing) opinion.

Chris

[Patrick2]

I sometimes get myself in a little trouble for bluntly speaking what's on my mind . . . even though I try do do so while following my own afore mentioned rule of putting my brain in gear before putting my mouth in motion. I expect this might be one of those times . . . and I'll expect a little incoming flack for doing so. But . . . . .

What ever happened to the old adage/axiom . . . "you get what you pay for"??

I mean no disrespect to those of you who have and love your Eastman guitars. And, my post here, reflecting my sentiment is in no way attributable to my affiliation with an American based guitar builder. But, it's not at all surprising to me that the OP got a turd from Eastman. What's most surprising is that there are so many good ones out there . . . given the quantity that's pumped out of that "factory" and the price points.

I found it most curious that the OP opened his post with the sentence that over a year and a half ago he searched the market for a *quality* instrument, then bit the bullet and paid over budget for an Eastman. What the heck was his budget to begin with, while looking for a quality guitar??

Understanding that the margins are huge for guitar dealers selling new guitars, (if not discounting the retail price points) , and also understanding labor costs where these things are mass produced as well as shipping costs across the Pacific . . . and given that there are usually middlemen involved, reflecting further additional costs . . . the fully loaded cost of building an Eastman guitar is probably well inside $500 US. Honestly, should one expect?

Apologies for my bluntness on this matter . . . but, I'm just sayin' . . . . .

[Clamps]

To the original poster: it sucks that you seem to have a lemon on your hands. I think that it's an important step to realizing that quality rarely comes for super cheap. Not discounting the odd occasion...because it happens sometimes.

To Patrick, I agree with you totally. I too have a hard time believing most of the posts about how great epiphone and Eastman are, but I know that good is an entirely subjective branch of favour.

[PTChristopher]

Hiya Gents:

Points noted on cost vs. quality. But:

>>> it's not at all surprising to me that the OP got a turd from Eastman.

>>> it sucks that you seem to have a lemon on your hands.

It is not at all clear to me that the OP has an actual turd. There is a tale of genuine woe, but no simple objective reading on the turd-o-meter. The actual guitar problems may be very minor. One problem may even be identical to any top-mounted HB. We do not know.

Chris

[Munk]

Chris

Maybe it is minor problems. But then a bit strange to me, that three techs with many years of experience including one, who build expensive guitars, have not been able to solve this periodic issue despite many hours work. But every time they were sure it was solved.

I don’t know what or how they measure, but I know the last tech tested and found, that the buzz disappeared when he put a piece of clothes under some of frets when pressing higher notes. But again, it also only solved the problem for some days.

I will give him another chance to look at the electronics. I don’t think he can fix the sound of wind in the amp – last time he tested if it would have effect to ground it, but it wouldn’t – but at least he can maybe bring the tone control work again and maybe without the former hizz side effects.

In fact my life, happiness and improvement has not been very dependent on the guitar. But I admit it has been among my worst buys ever, and not very funny to be cheated by Eastman and their non existing warranty.

I have had other guitars before. Hereby one acoustic K Yairi, which I had for 15 years, and which never had any issue and which I sold last year for the double price as I paid as new many years ago. But this half year old Eastman, I don’t believe I can even get half of what I paid. So maybe it will end its days in the closet as backup for a more reliable cheaper one.

[Munk]

Patrick2
I don’t know if it was a question to me, but you ask

What the heck was his budget to begin with, while looking for a quality guitar?

My budget was about 2.500 USD

[NSJ]

I'm sorry you have issues with this ONE guitar. But, in my experience, it is not reflective of Eastman guitars in general. I think they are fine guitars, I have never played a lemon. It does happen, of course. But it shouldn't reflect the brand in general, at least in this case.

I own a 7 string El Rey ER1, that I got from Jeff Hale. Here's the thing about QA: Mr. Hale inspected and had the guitar setup properly before he shipped it.

Sometimes, you get a little something extra from certain dealers that give you peace of mind that the box will work right out of the box. I got that from JHale Music, and Eastman is one of the main brands they sell.

[Munk]

Good to hear you have had more luck with your Eastman, NSJ.

I know many others in here are happy with their guitars cause I read several reviews. But I think it tells something important about a company, when they run very fast, while being confronted with their words about life time warranty.

[BigMikeinNJ]

I've owned a number of Eastmans and Yunzhi's (Yunzhi being the offshoot started by the other original partner in Eastman). I have a keeper real old early prototype of an Eastman AR810 that is sublime. I also bought a T146smd - a thin body single cutaway that was a fantastic Byrdland killer. I also owned a AR880 John Pisano, really a marvelous guitar. I bought a used Yunzhi acoustic archtop on eBay for $550.00 that was amazing.

I then had Yunzhi build me an John Pisano model to my specs with a floating pickup instead of set into the top. Really a great guitar.



I sold the T146smd and the AR880 but really wished I could have afforded to keep them. And selling the original Yunzhi (a copy of a AR910ce) but we needed money to cover medical emergencies.

(above, left to right): Yunzhi full acoustic AR810ce 5th Anniversary copy, really old Eastman 810 prototype (note the Benedetto style headstock shape) and an Eastman T146smd (that has SD Seth Lovers)



In the case of my Eastmans: my experience testing them in stores has been they're really well made and marvelous to play - but the electronics in them is sub standard when compared to the components that American hand built archtops use. BUT they are so inexpensive that later it's very easy to justify have the pots and wiring and pickup replaced to something VERY high end. That is what I did with my 810 prototype - had the wiring replaced and had an OLD hand wound Kent Armstrong Benedetto pickup installed in it. It sounds better than any of the Johnny Smiths, or Byrdlands or Super 400's I've owned over the years. That would be this guitar


Eastman prototype and Yunzhi 810ce 5th anniversary copy



Same with Yunzhi's - you cut out the middleman and you get a great solid wood, hand carved hand finished archtop and then go about replacing the electronics. End product is a very, very lovely archtop with superior wood and sound. J Hale is a great dealer - my T146smd went thru his shop and someone had him install SD Seth Lover 4 wire pickups so the tone pots were push/pull and it was a tone monster !!!! I spoke to Jeff about that guitar and he said otherwise it needed no work, easy setup.

I think the occasional bad guitar comes out of any factory, whether here in the US, China, Japan, Europe. There comes a point where you find you need to sell it at a loss and go hand pick a guitar IN A STORE. All the Eastmans and Yunzhis I bought were online and I've had 100% success, as long as I changed out the electrics. Good luck deciding what to do. I WOULD NOT write off Eastman because of this one bad experience. They do rock (or jazz)...

[Jabberwocky]

Not much information to go on. I gotta open my big mouth. I am not willing to believe you got a lemon or a turd. I think it is badly set-up. I haven't met your technicians.

You know what I would do? Remove the strings. Remove the pickguard and the bracket. Remove all the pickup, pots, knobs and wiring harness. Check the tailpiece that it is tight and square. Check the tuning machines that the screws are tight. Put back the original nut. Now, get new strings in your preferred gauge. String it up. Set the truss rod for neck relief, if need be. Intonate. Set string action. Anymore buzzing? Wrap some strands of knitting wool around the strings, in the section between the bridge and the tailpiece. Anymore buzzing?

The Eastman are not well known for their electrical components so you need to change them anyway. Better humbucker. Better pots. Better wiring harness. Keep the knobs.

When I was new, my archtop started to buzz one day for no good reason. I finally discovered that it was coming from the cap screw that held the pickguard rod to the bracket. It was loose and buzzed. Annoying until you knew where it was coming from.

Of course, you could also have a broken truss rod that was tightened too enthusiastically. (I assume it has a truss rod.) In that case, you are sod out of luck. A broken truss rod is an expensive repair. I re-read your old posts, Munk. In one of them, you mentioned that that saddle was set so high that it was "bending" at the posts. That tells me that your neck angle is out of whack.

You paid good money for it. Don't quit now. Take out all the electricals, pickguard and rattle-y bits. String it up as a purely acoustic archtop and then go from there.

[docbop]

Hard to believe that much wrong with one guitar and if there was I would be all over the dealer for a refund. Refund is a word dealers especially small dealers don't like, so if you push for refund they will probably do everything to get you an exchange for new guitar. Get the problems documented by a reputable repairman and get BBB or some consumer advocate group to help you. I would say the its more of a bad/lazy dealer taking advantage your not drawing a line in the sand.

Also with a bad issue from a big company start contacting the CEO themselves. You might only get their assistant but result is usually the same. Ones that care will make sure your issue is resolved, ones that are typically "suit" don't want to be bothered so after being contacted a couple times will resolve to get rid of you. Either way your get your issue resolved.

I recently had a run in with a company trying to screw me around. I found every social media they had a presence on and started posting my issue, and regular status updates. A week later it was resolved. It sucks having to be an asshole to get something resolved, but the squeaky wheel does get the grease. When I like something I do post to make sure people know it so guess I got my yin & yang covered.

Good luck

[Munk]

Thanks for your suggestions and views about the Eastman electronics.

Jabberwocky, I’m far from being tech myself. I can do a setup, measure relief, adjust string heights, intonation etc. And besides playing guitar, always with new stuff to learn, I not least have a demanding job with constantly new topics to catch up on, so it’s out of range for me to do all this, though it sounds very reasonable!

Some of what you mention has been done. But it hasn’t had everything out and step by step back. I guess this approach could help a lot, but probably also a spicy affair to pay others to do this as it is a periodic issue, and many times before it has appeared to be solved.

Bryan T, I’m living in Denmark and recently moved to a lesser populated place, so I can play as I want instead of living in apartment. It means I have fewer techs to choose between, if I’m not willing to spent more working days on transportation. Besides I have already tried techs with good reputation,

docbop, When I confronted the dealer, he wanted to repair it, and this time himself, though he original told me he could only do a rough setup.

And if he believe he solves the problem - like I have done before for a few days - he will not do more. It means not contacting the distributor as he first promised.

And it means two more working days for me, going and getting the guitar, and if it is not fixed – hard to believe he suddenly should be more clever than a luthier with good reputation, a guy he recommended highly himself – then I have to go there again.

It’s not the end of the world for me to put it in the closet and look a better and cheaper second hand guitar. Fighting for my rights with lawyers or taking steps with councils, boards or what they are called here, will only make me feel sad as long as it goes on. And all the time I will be reminded about the poor Eastman company moral and how it could have been.

Instead I look at it as a choice between living in the present without too many sufferings and then fighting for my rights. I choose the first one as I can save money to buy another guitar, so then I’m very happy with the possibility this forum gave me, so I could warn others.

[Tom Karol]

Try emailing this guy: [email protected].

[BigMikeinNJ]

Munk you got a string of great advice there. Especially taking everything off the guitar and playing it fully acoustic to see if your "problem" goes away. I find it real hard to believe you have a "turd". Be patient. Jabberwocky's advice is really very well laid out.

[Munk]

Hi Tom,

Do you know, who this guy is?

I mailed with another guy, who said he needed to talk with the Vice President, and there it stranded until now

[Tom Karol]

Hi Tom,

Do you know, who this guy is?

I mailed with another guy, who said he needed to talk with the Vice President, and there it stranded until now

Not really. He sent me a confirmation email from Eastman USA when I registered my AR403CE in January. My AR403 is the only Eastman I've ever owned, but it's a really good guitar.

You know, maybe you should just fix yours up the best you can, sell it for whatever you can get for it, and move on to something else.

Anyway, good luck.

[Munk]

You know, maybe you should just fix yours up the best you can, sell it for whatever you can get for it, and move on to something else.

Anyway, good luck.

Yes, this is a possibility. I also have a rather expensive Fender guitar, which I never plays, and that one is without issues, so maybe I can get a decent jazz box for both of them, when I move to a bigger city one day within a few years.

[edh]

Here in the U.S we have small claims court. They handle issues of $5000 or less.

If they have something like this in Denmark I would take them to court. ONce they get served with court papers, it will usually light a fire under them to get the problem solved.

[Klatu]

Being that internet feedback is such a valuable commodity, I'm surprised that your dealer hasn't made more of an effort to remedy your problems just so that you provide decent word of mouth for the his shop and the brand. Being a member of this and other forums, I am fully aware of the repercussions of bad press. The archtop buying and playing public is relatively small, and a few bad threads on a few public forums can really have an effect on business.

I know that your situation has been terrible, but I wanted to put in a good word for some stateside Eastman dealers who have done well by me and have generally good reputations:

Jeff Hale Music
Bernunzio Instruments
Guitars 'n Jazz

[Munk]

Klatu,

Well, it’s also the worst treatment I have ever experienced. In the biggest music store here, it’s completely different with service, repairs and exchanges, but they have few archtops.

Being the only dealer, this guy might think he can treat customers as he want and maybe his business is going very bad. No matter what, I will raise my voice among people here.

What I am most surprised about, is that he is so unwilling to ask the distributor for a change even though he said he would, if just I wrote a long and detailed description. After doing so, he changed his mind without explaining why and said he would try to repair it. I wonder if he loose money asking for a change. For sure he will loose on his reputation now. He was even unwilling to accept an offer, where I paid a technician to fix it, and if he failed, the dealer should promise to change it next time.

[Munk]

I did not hear from Eastman even though they promised to do something. So I decided to pay one more tech and this time to tell him what to do. My suspicion was a wire inside sometimes touching the top, which could explain the periodic buzz.

It was not very easy for him to take out the pods, get the wire away from the top and put it all back again safe, but he managed, though also to make a big scratch in the crazy lacquer.

But more important, two weeks after I still haven’t heard any buzz. If it stays away, it confirms my perception about the quality and how sloppy they have been at the factory with the many different issues I have experienced, and also when I notice wrong drilling holes for the pickguard like it is a trial an error guitar.

All this had not been so bad, if there was a waranty instead of empty words and somebody at the Eastman office. I now need a 175 style, and after this experience it will definitely not be another Eastman.