Why do the same strings feel stiffer on one guitar and not the other?

**PTChristopher** · 09-13-2012, 08:21 PM

Hiya sdr,

Can I call you "SD"?

>>> I understand that 2 guitars with the same strings and scale length will have the same tension regardless of any other factor.

Yes.

>>> But unless you tune to open E and just strum along to Smokestack Lightning, does tension have much effect on playability?

To flow with your concept here, it does not. Great point in my opinion.

>>> It seems that stiffness would have the greater effect. However, if I'm reading it right, stiffness is predominantly a function of tension, with only slightly measurable variances being influenced by other factors.

I must admit to crying slightly here. Well not blubbering aloud, but a sniff and an eye-wipe. 100% agreed. I just bought a six-pack of Harpoon IPA and you can have the other five.

>>> What about action? Higher action means that it requires force over a greater distance to fret the note.

Well higher action means even greater force as the distance increases.

>>> Once the note is fretted do any other factors impact the bending force?

Yes and No. The force required to bend a given distance along a fret will be less with less stiffness. BUT, less stiffness means you must bend farther to get the same pitch change.

In the end you must bend the string with the same force to get a given pitch change regardless of stiffness.

And the big part:

Reducing stiffness will make fretting notes easier.

Reducing stiffness WILL NOT make bending to a given pitch easier. You will press just as hard after you move the greater distance required with less stiffness.

(Wow, we are almost ready for the complex Stratocaster situation with springs, a tight FB radius, super low nut friction on some strings. But back to the regularly scheduled program,...)

>>> Or is it just of function of tension, meaning that our two similar guitars will require the exact same bending?

Your two guitars will require different bend distances to get a given pitch change, but the lateral force on the string will be the same.

>>> exponential effect on subjective, immeasurable "playability".

Har-har. It does indeed seem that once one latches on to a possible effect (real or otherwise), the perception of the effect is amplified - as if we reward ourselves for brilliant perception and avoid the whole pesky question of actuality. I think fake boobs are more or less explained in this way.

Thanks for the post.

If I can take it back to your opener and give an opinion:

>>> I've often wondered what makes one guitar more "playable" than another.

In my opinion, nut height trumps all the rest of this in terms of setup and eventually playability. Most crappy-playing guitars need nut work, then the rest is easy. This whole stiffness thing is somewhat down the list, but still worth sorting out considering all the mis-info on the subject.

Chris

**sdr** · 09-14-2012, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by PTChristopher

Hiya sdr,

Can I call you "SD"?

Thanks for the reply. You can call me Steve.
I want to drill in on this a little bit

Originally Posted by PTChristopher

>>> exponential effect on subjective, immeasurable "playability".

Har-har. It does indeed seem that once one latches on to a possible effect (real or otherwise), the perception of the effect is amplified - as if we reward ourselves for brilliant perception and avoid the whole pesky question of actuality. I think fake boobs are more or less explained in this way.

I'm talking about a real difference, not a perceived one. There are subtle differences between the two guitars. Maybe the bridge friction is different, or one is strung through the body and the other is a stop piece bridge, etc. Now suppose the player has no real or mythical "knowledge" of these things whatsoever. I'm suggesting that perhaps the real effect on playability is greater than the measurable difference in stiffness.

My thinking here is similar to the effect of different string gauges. Going .10 to .11 may seem to be a miniscule difference in the thickness of a string, but it makes a huge difference in the feel of a guitar.

PS. I'm restraining myself from comment on your boob analogy.

**PTChristopher** · 09-14-2012, 03:48 PM

Hey Steve,

Ah, I get what you are talking about.

If pressed I am very confident we could attach numbers to all sorts of guitar parameters and define both a "subtle" change on the guitar and a "real effect" on playability.

I also think we can kick it around some with a pretty good idea of what you mean by those definitions.

I think what you describe definitely happens. A player genuinely feels a small change, which ends up making a very large difference in the playability of the guitar. Easy things become a little tricky, harder things become miserable, sloppy, etc..

But I have also noticed two other conditions.

One is that a player really adapts quickly and is remarkably insensitive to what to me seem like very big changes. But I think this is less common than the situation you describe.

The other situation is a player who has the most awful setup since Hondo II guitars stopped production. But the player loves the setup and cannot deal with even the slightest change. The trick is then doing whatever needs to be done to the guitar with out losing its intense screwed-up-ed-ness.

Chris