DeArmond 1100 Rhythm Chief

[screamin eagle]

Sorry if this is a little bit of a thread resurrection, but do we have anyone who has directly compared these to the originals? I think someone has said they sound good anyway and close from what they remember, but is there a direct comparison?

Also, does anyone know why the 1000 is described as 15k and the 1100 is 6k (measured)? Were the originals that far apart? I was under the impression that they were more similar than different and the 1100 was just adjustable. Ebay listings which list or show meter readings seem to be in the 7-9k range for the 1000 model.

I have an FHC and while I love it I'm looking for a backup and the originals are just so damn expensive now--unless you find one already on a guitar. From memory, I think mine meters at 7.8k.

Also wondering if anyone has compared the new 1000 with the new 1100. Would be interesting considering the meter so differently.

If/when I decide to try one of the new ones I'll try and do a comparison with the FHC.

[Franz 1997]

my original D'A 1100 metered @ 13k., if that's any help. when I was looking, a couple of others available metered in the same area. I have the impression that the repros have been careful to replicate perhaps the oddest original feature, the rubber magnets, but have reduced the coil winding dcr. I'm sure there will be a reason; can't see they'd blow a good design for the sake of a few thou turns of wire...

[Top of the Arch!]

I was told the K reading had little to do with the actual sound of a pickup, I dont remember who told me that but I seem to remember someone else backing up that statement. Am I wrong? Anyone know? Bob

[screamin eagle]

Well I have a lollar Charlie Christian and it meters low (as intended) due to being wound with thicker wire (38 gauge) and thus the coil getting further away from the magnets/poll pieces quicker.

I have heard that these dearmonds (originals) were wound with very thin wire (44 gauge). Wonder if these new ones are wound with wire thicker than the originals? Could be a reason for the stated 1100 meter reading. But then what about the disparity between the two new reissue models.

[rpguitar]

I have an original and a repro 1100 on two different guitars. I have not measured their respective impedance. But they do sound remarkably similar. I would have no problem believing that they were from the same vintage based purely on sound.

I do think the original is a teeny bit hotter, or perhaps the repro is a bit more articulate, but it's not a significant difference. It's akin to the minor difference between two random examples of the same product made in the same factory on different days.

In short, the repro 1100 is a great pickup. I have not tried a model 1000 of any vintage.

[neatomic]

in agreement with screamin eagle-

the more winds of wire around a pickup bobbin, the higher the resistance…but the number of winds is dependent on the gauge of wire used to wrap it…early cc's used 38 wire..very thick..so you didnt get many winds..they had very low resistance…but combined with the massive magnets, it was a pretty loud pup…

i'd think the difference in these dearmonds is the wire..they probably used 44 wire to get the high 13 k..but that's about the equivalent of 7k with 42 wire…which is they gauge they probably used for the other…finer wire is usually thought to make the pups sound a bit more hi fi…construction and type of magnet is just as important

cheers

[screamin eagle]

Wow, that is quite the statement. Thanks. I ordered an 1100 and while it's in transit need to figure out how to hook it up. Not looking to molest the guitar. Maybe I'll order a 1000 too and see how different they are. Doesn't seem that a lot of people are considering these as alternatives...or maybe we're just a small pool of people--those interested in these pickups...nah, that can't be it, otherwise the vintage ones wouldn't be as expensive as they are.

RP, how do you have your repo hooked put? Pot values?

[Top of the Arch!]

Anyone interested in a Dearmond 1100 is a tone geek! I love the Dearmonds and have friends who just dont get why I dont like humbuckers. I am a tone geek and theres just something about the Dearmonds tone you cant duplicate with a quiet humbucker. While there may not be tons of players who like the 1100 it does certainly deserve to be a production piece. Bob

[rpguitar]

I used a pretty standard 500k volume pot with no tone control, wired to an end pin jack. The pickup is naturally warm and doesn't require a tone control. Lowering the volume a hair does the trick if desired.

[Marty Grass]

I've had the same experience as Roger. The sound is a warm single coil type, meaning there are adequate mids with good articulation or separation of notes.

[screamin eagle]

Well my FHC pickup has only a volume control and that is what I planned on doing for the repo pickup, but wasn't sure about the pot value. I can't make out any markings from what is visible, and considering it works I don't want to disassemble it. I like the warmth I get when the volume is backed off to about 7-8. In fact I'm not nuts about all the way up--the brightness takes away from the archtop character of the guitar.

[screamin eagle]

Interesting too that Thomastik rounds are my favorite strings, but they are almost too modern sounding on this old archtop. And the bass is almost too pronounced with the FHC pickup. Now martin retro's are perfect for this guitar--a lot less bass which makes them sound really midrangey, but the bass doesn't blow out the sound. I thought the martin retro's sounded terrible on modern Broadway (2 p90s thorough) style guitar. I guess there's some tone geekery for you.

[screamin eagle]

RP did you have to ground the tailpiece/strings?

[oldane]

On thing to note when comparing old PUs and new replicas is that magnets usually become weaker with time and a several decades old PU will likely not sound quite the same now as it did when it was new.

[rpguitar]

I don't have a separate ground wire for strings/tp on either of my 1100 equipped guitars. I don't notice any issues with that. Of course they are both "parlor" guitars and are only played at home at low volume levels.

[Doctor Jeff]

Had a little problem installing the RC 1000 on my Harmony. The supporting rod broke with very minimal stress at the screw hole. That particular piece of hardware is very poorly made indeed.

I have emailed Guild (Corboba) asking for a replacement.




On the other hand, the removal of a Barcus Berry piezo pickup from the Harmony and installation on a Dobro went swimmingly. That is a great pickup for that guitar. (Now I just have to learn to play the thing like Jerry Douglas...)

[Spook410]

Thanks for the heads up on the bar DocJeff. Haven't installed mine yet and now I'll be more careful.
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Anybody have thoughts on strings? I tend to like TI swings (round wound) so may start there. Curious about something like monel on an 18" archtop though and those should make an electric pickup happy enough. On the other hand, wonder if the adjustable pole pieces will offer enough adjustment to use acoustic 80/20's.

[screamin eagle]

Well my 1100 came in and while I planned on waiting till I got a new pickguard, i counldnt resist. A tone report and sound clips to follow, innitial impression is: The repo 1100 is more neutral and articulate, however the FHC is a little more microphonic, middy and vibey. The 1100 is definitely wax potted as some came out when I lowered the pole pieces. The FHC can get wooly and indestinct in the bass. Both pickups are really bright at full volume, I prefer both rolled back to about 8 or so. I don't intend to keep both pickups on, but this allows me to play both back to back to hear the differences.

[edh]

Where did you get that bracket that holds the two pickups? The bracket that I see that comes with 1100 pickups require you to drill holes in the neck of the guitar.

[screamin eagle]

Where did you get that bracket that holds the two pickups? The bracket that I see that comes with 1100 pickups require you to drill holes in the neck of the guitar.

That pressure rod (as it's called) is original to the FHC pickup you see in the picture. These either came with neck-mount rods, or rods that attach to the strings behind the bridge.

I gotta say that I was mildly concerned with the repo 1100 not fitting correctly on my FHC rod--which would have indicated a certain level replication (or lack there of). Considering I've read so much about how the tooling for these pickups is the biggest cost and most challenging thing to get started with, and they got the fit right on this, I'm pretty impressed with the reproduction detail level.

I've never played an original 1100 so I can't say how the sounds relate, and I'm not sure I'm nuts about the wax potting, but size and fitting are spot on, and the tone is good. The FHC definitely adds it's own character and color and I don't know if that is common to the FHC model only and not on the Rhythm Chief or Super Rhythm chief. The RC and Super RC are definitely held in higher regard compared to the FHC model so maybe this is one of the points of differentiation with the originals--more transparent and neutral tone, rather than having its own color and character. Anyone care to pontificate on this? The FHC can definitely get indistinct in the bass with volume--though I only play tweed amps; a blackface might improve the bass definition a little, but I digress.

[rpguitar]

Without pontificating too much, I think the FHC is a somewhat raw, vintage, vibey pickup. The 1100 is much more refined, rich-sounding, and modern. I think the 1100 is like a clearer humbucker, while the FHC gives a single coil sound with reduced dynamic range.

The FHC has a certain place on a smaller, punchy guitar, but on a really fine acoustic archtop, I prefer the refinement of the Rhythm Chief sound.

[screamin eagle]

Without pontificating too much, I think the FHC is a somewhat raw, vintage, vibey pickup. The 1100 is much more refined, rich-sounding, and modern. I think the 1100 is like a clearer humbucker, while the FHC gives a single coil sound with reduced dynamic range.

The FHC has a certain place on a smaller, punchy guitar, but on a really fine acoustic archtop, I prefer the refinement of the Rhythm Chief sound.

Well that's good to know as this is my initial impression regarding the repo 1100 as it compares to the FHC-C I have. I just wasn't sure if the differences were new vs old, or model vs model.

[Doctor Jeff]

I got a response to my email to Guild (Cordoba) from a Mr. Garcia. He said sorry for the problem, would ship out another mounting rod right away. Looking forward to putting it on!

(I notice they are available on Ebay for $12.95...)

[screamin eagle]

On the tonal front: a friend of mine let me borrow his vintage 1100 and I put both on the same monkey rod so I could hear them side by side on the same guitar. Fun experiment. One is much more microphonic with a slight honk and one is articulate and lively. The old one is cool and, well, old, but I think they got it right on this one.

Here's a question:

Considering the uniqueness of these pickups and the production volume (appears low) of the guitars they are putting them on, why do you think they put so much into getting all these details right? Magnets? Supposedly rubber. Pickup casing details and size and fit.

[edh]

Because however is producing them takes pride in their work.