Best Guitar Center Amp for Jazz

[srlank]

Hello,

I can't afford to buy a new amp all at once, so I want to get an amp from Guitar Center where I can make payments. I want something clean with a lot of headroom....and I love tubes; but would get a solid state if it sounded good enough. It would also be nice to have a crunchy channel, but it is not my priority since there is the option of pedals. I tried a Twin, and it was really nice, but extremely heavy. I also tried a Deville, and it was lighter and the sound seemed okay in the store; but I was not real impressed with the cunch channel. (Maybe I didn't play with the settings enough.)

Thx for any ideas!

Sharon

[Flint]

I read that Fender had upgraded their distortion channels on their latest models, but I couldn't hear any improvement. I also read that they had changed from the evil linear pots to audio pots, so that presumably the amp wasn't silent at position 1 and deafening at position 2, but I couldn't tell much difference there either.

I found the Deville 410 too heavy for me, and I went with the Deluxe, which I can lift (this is a 1x12) and it sounds great to me. If I want distortion, I've read that Fender amps take pedals very well. I've personally not tried this.

[srlank]

Thx very much Flint. I'll have to check out the Deluxe!

[eddy b.]

i don't know if it is in your pricce range but those Mesa Boogie Express 25 or 50's are in -fricking- credible!! Worth every penny.

[srlank]

Really? I didn't know they would work for jazz!

Also, if a Mesa Boogie would work, how about a Marshall combo with tubes?? (I'm asking, because I have access to one, though it is very heavy.)

[monkmiles]

Maybe the Fender Super Sonic? I haven't actually played one, but the specs seem to fit your wants in that it has both a clean and crunchy channel and there are two models (22 or 60 watt) depending on how much headroom you need.

[srlank]

Thx Martinopass. I'll check it out! BTW, I'll be using it with my new 15" Eastman hollowbody! (I also use a Strat.)

[stevedenver]

i would suggest, if you like a twin reverb, the hot rod deville-10s or 12s

to me these are real tube amps at a pretty decent price

you are correct -the drive channel is less than great-i have found however to remedy this a bit, you first must bias the amp-they come very cold from the factory to increase tube life, and, then if you wish, add a great 12ax7 to the v1 spot

(once biased, with fresh power tubes, they can be unbelievably loud-but this means decent headroom-and they are sensitive to tone settings, and at high volume-you need to lessen bass to avoid farting out the stock speakers

secondly, they are really, really nice clean, sparkly amps-crystal, pristine, transparent, full, musical and round are words that come to mind
consumate fender sound imho-

they are less heavy than a twin, but not much- my 2x12 is about 55, my twin about 90

i mention these because they seem to sell used for pretty affordable prices-and if you find one used at gc -you should bargain hard

and of course make sure its all inorder
they have pc boards and solder joints, if handled roughly, can break and cause issues, sometimes hard to locate
also the cabs are MDC-composite wood, so you dont want any cracks or joint problems at the corners

i also like the peavy delta blues amp-but it is a lot dirtier in sound

i also tried a super sonic-great little amp, but simply, smaller-but a great small modern amp

[srlank]

Thx very much for your reply stevedenver. I have a couple of questions.

1. So you are saying the clean channel is somewhat comparable to a Twin?

2. I get to show my ignorance here big-time. What does"increase the bias" mean, and what is the v1?

Thank you for your patience and time.

[eddy b.]

Oh yeah the clean side of a Boogie is a great clean tone amazing headroom etc. I love the Boogie stuff and the Rivera stuff because their cleans are incredible and when you need saturated crunch nothing comes close..I use a Rivera Clubster 45 as my main amp. I love it!

[srlank]

I just came from a rehearsal where I got to use the Roland JC 120. What a tank....especially taking it up a couple of riser stairs! What a nice tone!

[Section Player]

If limited to Guitar Center, which is certainly ok, I recommend you look into the ZT Club, Vox AG 70, and the Marshall AS50D. A bit heavier is the Roland Cube 80 which is worth a look. Don't get locked into the proverbial "gotta have tubes" thing. Also, keep in mind that probably 90% or more of the well-meaning employees don't know squat about jazz or how to get a jazz tone.

Yes, I know that some of these amps are so-called "acoustic" amps, but don't let that distract you. When you try them out in the store, either bring your own jazz axe, or have them hand you a true jazz guitar off the wall. Start off with everything set at neutral on both the guitar and the amp, play, and then tweak away.

[srlank]

Great suggestions Section Player. Thx. I had tried one of the Cubes before (can't remember which one) and didn't like it at the time. I think however that I was hoping the distortion and effects would sound good, but they didn't work at all for me. I don't remember what I thought of the clean channel, and at the time I was using a Strat for jazz tunes rather than my new hollowbody. I also tried a ZT at Sam Ash, and it didn't really move me. I haven't tried out any Vox amps, nor have I tried the model of Marshall that you suggest, so those sound like some viable options to give a go.

Great idea to bring your own guitar and set the knobs on neutral. Generally at my local GC, none of the guitars are set-up and often sound out of tune on different parts of the neck. I never understood that.

[Section Player]

Great suggestions Section Player. Thx. I had tried one of the Cubes before (can't remember which one) and didn't like it at the time. I think however that I was hoping the distortion and effects would sound good, but they didn't work at all for me. I don't remember what I thought of the clean channel, and at the time I was using a Strat for jazz tunes rather than my new hollowbody. I also tried a ZT at Sam Ash, and it didn't really move me. I haven't tried out any Vox amps, nor have I tried the model of Marshall that you suggest, so those sound like some viable options to give a go.

Great idea to bring your own guitar and set the knobs on neutral. Generally at my local GC, none of the guitars are set-up and often sound out of tune on different parts of the neck. I never understood that.

I should apologize because I wasn't paying much attention to your requirements for effects, but I think the amps I mentioned are possibilities for a good warm clean jazz sound. I mentioned the ZT club specifically because it is their largest, with a 12 inch speaker, and I've seen other commentaries on it being suitable for jazz. I suspect with most of these, you'd have to run outboard effects for the most part.

I know what you mean about store guitars. It can be frustrating! I almost always hate whatever they're strung with, just for openers!

[srlank]

Hi Section Player,

Actually, my priority is for a nice clean sound. If an amp has some effects that sound good, all the better. What got me into this idea, was playing through a twin Tube amp a couple of weeks ago, and it was so great. And it was particularly nice to play through equipment and not have to work around the problems with tone. Currently I use a Blues Junior, and it starts to break up pretty quickly.

Thx for your replies!

[stevedenver]

Thx very much for your reply stevedenver. I have a couple of questions.

1. So you are saying the clean channel is somewhat comparable to a Twin?

2. I get to show my ignorance here big-time. What does"increase the bias" mean, and what is the v1?

Thank you for your patience and time.

no ignorance at all, i only learned this stuff after messing with my own amps and building a kit amp-otherwise guitar players plug and play-i know i did


yes i think the sound is very much like a twin, and i own a 1965 twin reverb and a 2x12 deville (among others)
i think you would be very pleased with a deville-the clean sound is superb, and very much like a twin, perhaps a bit more sparkly transparent-the twin only slightly warmer in sound-and this could be due to many variables between my two amps-including extreme age of the Twin)

it is a general thought that you may simply liek fenders-the circuits are clean, and i think that a larger cab and either 10s or 12 as speaker really make a change-but the size of the cabinet makes a huge difference-and ill bet this is , in part, what youre hearing and that you love


bias is an adjustment to the amount of power going to the power tubes-it must be adjusted, as each tube actually varies in output

fender chooses tubes that have a range of output, mathced or somewhat matched between both power tubes, and then sets the bias to a low , safe level within that range, so as not to overload the tubes-soundwise this makes the tube very clean, and helps them to last a long time-and when biased 'cold' it is much more difficult to overdrive the power stage of the amp with guitar signal-and for jazz this is fine imho

there are usually about 3 tubes in the preamp section (the section which electronically shapes the tone of the amp) these 3 are referred to a V1, V2, and V3

-the V1 -in fenders is usually farthest away from the power transformer box-it controls gain-certain tubes will provide more gain or distortion with more signal, others will provide a very clean sound withuot distortion

hope this helps-all im saying is that these things can be tweaked to significantly change and imrpove the amps sound by a tech

my deville, when new, was blisteringly loud at 60W, but sounded terrible at high volumes-ie no distortion from the power section

as it had little distorion for rock sounds until i biased the tubes 'hot'-

now i get nice brown power tube type sound-and it sounds more natural than the sound from the preamp 'drive and more drive' sections-although these too can be improved with good tubes and judicious use ot the gain control

fender supplies servicable tubes but not always the most musically sweet sounding tubes-

my twin is biased very hot also, and i get a bit of grind, distortion at high volume-not easy with a twin,

both amps will lend themselves far better to pedal imho

also biasing an amp fairly hot will give great sound, but is also a much greater strain on the tubes and shortens the life even at lowere volumes-but to me its worth it as the sound is so much nicer-ie not sterile but a bit more round and brown (some but not much distortion with increased volume)

the first tube in the V1 can simply be replaced without hassle-no biasing, simply buy a nice one and change the stock one-12ax7 vary a great deal with they type of distortion they can produce, some very metallic and harsh, others sweet, smooth, and musical-and more or less you get what you pay for, (and all you have to do is talk with a electronics supplier and they will help you chose what you need)

a 12 ay 7 for instance would hav emuch less gain, better for jazz, and probably less $$ for a great one, such as JAN types (JAN stand for older Joint Army Navy specification tubes -these were made to high specifications for quality and reliability)

btw i totally agree with Section Player's comments about accoustic amps-they may indeed be a far better choice, including the typcial notch filter they have, which is an adjustable tone filter that targets , and cuts, the correct range that causes feedback in an accoustic-worth it's weight in gold

what i can say is that your amp is possibly the more important factor than the guitar used in the overall tone you seek-ie a great guitar through a sh98ty amp will never sound great, but much less so the other way around

[srlank]

Wow stevedenver......what a fantastic post! Thx so much for such a well thought-out and detailed reply!!! It's so much more fun to research a new investment with a little bit of knowledge. Hope your positive karma comes back to you in exponential folds!!

[tuxtux]

Give a Fender Princeton Reverb a try. Nice amp for playing Jazz.

Regards
Tux
The Netherlands, Europe

[srlank]

Hi Tux,

Does it matter what year for the amp? Are the new ones from Guitar Center good? Are they loud enough?

Thx so much for any information!

Sharon

[zigzag]

i don't know if it is in your price range but those Mesa Boogie Express 25 or 50's are in -fricking- credible!! Worth every penny.

I love my Express 5:50, but to me, it doesn't have cleans that are what I think of when I think jazz tones- too bright, round, ringing, and pretty. If that is what you want, it really is a great amp. Great "crunch" channel, too.

I am using a Cube 80XL for clean jazz tones (and it's almost $1000 less). I've only had it a couple of months and I'm very happy with it for cleans. I like a couple of the modeling settings if you take the time to tweek them, but that is not why I have it, and I hardly ever use them.

[srlank]

Yes, as a matter of fact I was going to check out a Cube either today or tomorrow, because I got to use a Roland JC 120 at rehearsal the other day. It was great! Hoping the Cube is similar.

[aniss1001]

Try a Peavey Classic if possible. Absolutely awesome amp for the money IMO.

[srlank]

Thx aniss1001. I'll have to check that out!

[Klatu]

I don't think that Guitar Center stocks Peavey products.

[Retroman1969]

Give a Fender Princeton Reverb a try. Nice amp for playing Jazz.

Regards
Tux
The Netherlands, Europe

Yes, and I was about to suggest the Fender Princeton Chorus. Also great for jazz. Powerful, lots of headroom, smooth and clean.
They turn up used frequently pretty cheap.

Otherwise, that Cube 80x is an excellent choice.