Rig for playing with big band

**Erik Gran** · 03-07-2012, 11:39 AM

I'm going to play a gig with a big band in a few days, trying to get by with what I've got, as I mainly play acoustic guitar, banjo and mandolin. Now I'm going electric, using a G&L ASAT Tribute ("Telecaster on steroids" ...

) and a Kustom Tube 12A, not really getting the perfect sound for this but anyway, it works. We're going to play compositions of the Norwegian composer Frode Fjellheim, based on old traditional sami music.

I run the guitar straight to the amp, crank the volume way up on the amp, leave tone controls at 12 o'clock, back of tone on the guitar, neck pickup only.

Any thoughts on how to get good, relatively clean sound out, that separates the notes in the chords so it doesn't sound too muddy?

**GodinFan** · 03-07-2012, 12:13 PM

You mean you're running the master at max, not the volume, right? You don't want to breakup the signal at the preamp.

**Erik Gran** · 03-07-2012, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by GodinFan

You mean you're running the master at max, not the volume, right? You don't want to breakup the signal at the preamp.

Well, yes, the thing is, this amp only has Gain, Low, High and Volume. It's a hybrid, with a 12AX7 tube in the preamp and a solidstate power amp. There's a push switch for the Gain, which I leave off, and then the Gain control does nothing.

**tubeswell** · 03-07-2012, 12:55 PM

Get a Tweed, Blonde, or Blackface bassman and you'll have plenty of nice cleans.

Re: your little amp, small amps break-up sooner when you crank them. Also as they get louder the bandwidth changes and you tend to lose highs and definition. A treble booster (like a dallas rangemaster) may help because they accentuate mid-highs and this is useful when your amp is maxed out. However whether it will be 'clean' is another story.

**stevedenver** · 03-07-2012, 05:45 PM

actually,
besides clean headroom in the amp, and low/no gain to avoid signal saturation-ie crunch

i think a string dampener might really be the answer for individual note crispness-

might want to do a search for jennifer batten -she demonstrates jsut how a dampener really helps avoid the muddiness

when i think about this, it might seem that having a somewhat faster decay/less sustain is what helps

**fauves** · 03-07-2012, 06:34 PM

With a smaller amp getting it up off of the floor and tilting it back a bit will be a huge and easy fix. Chair or amp stand does not matter. You won't need to drive it as hard and it won't be hitting everyone's legs so it will be more clear. A 30 dollar amp stand was one of the best things I did for my sound

**jorgemg1984** · 03-07-2012, 07:10 PM

Cabinet size also matters a lot.

**Atticus** · 03-07-2012, 07:46 PM

With my ZT Lunchbox, which admittedly has a lot of headroom at 200W, I roll up the amp gain and volume and the guitar volume pretty high, roll off the tone to taste, and play with a very light touch.

With single-coils you ought to have pretty solid note definition, though if you're playing big, acoustic style chords that might have something to do with it. Minimize your voicings to avoid cluttering your sound and distorting too much.

**coolvinny** · 03-08-2012, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Atticus

With my ZT Lunchbox, which admittedly has a lot of headroom at 200W, I roll up the amp gain and volume and the guitar volume pretty high, roll off the tone to taste, and play with a very light touch.

With single-coils you ought to have pretty solid note definition, though if you're playing big, acoustic style chords that might have something to do with it. Minimize your voicings to avoid cluttering your sound and distorting too much.

I use a ZT Lunchbox with a humbucker-equipped guitar in a big band setting. I usually keep the guitar volume around half, while on the amp I have the gain around 2pm and the volume around 11pm. It sounds great. If your existing amp isn't cutting it, then consider the ZT since they're quite inexpensive.

**Erik Gran** · 03-08-2012, 05:28 PM

I've also looked at the ZT Lunchbox as an option. Will see if I can find one to try out, have heard they have some "lunchbox" amp at a music store in the next town here. The concert is on Sunday, so there won't be time to change amps befor later, I fear. Will have to do with what I've got, and let the sound guy make the best out of it ...

**mr. beaumont** · 03-08-2012, 05:37 PM

If it's big band and I'm plugging in, I'm running the amp higher than I need to, and backing off on the guitar's volume so I can whack the thing!

I've done this setup with a tele and a Zt lunchbox with my school's jazz/R&B group the past few years (I'm the de facto director) and had good enough results.

Oh, middle position on the pickup selector...I want more clarity for those shell voicings. Darker tone is for small combos...

**Atticus** · 03-08-2012, 11:09 PM

Tone can always be an issue for big bands, especially in a band that crosses genres. During our big Mardi Gras gig, which lasted about four hours, I had to be ready for, among others: It Don't Mean a Thing, Doxy, Relax Max (a Latin tune), Heard It Through the Grapevine, Papa's Got a Brand New Bag, You Never Can Tell (Chuck Berry), and Never Can Say Goodbye. I ran my Tele through a Tech 21 Blonde to the Lunchbox with extension cab and spent most of the night fiddling with knobs, but it worked.

I use the neck pickup, but I play with solid body and thinlines which means I'm already brighter than most jazz guitars.

**mangotango** · 03-09-2012, 08:18 AM

When playing occasionalbig band gigs, I use my Vestax D'Angelico NYL-5 through the Henriksen Jazzamp 110, no reverb, set very middley/bright. If "Gonna Fly Now" (the Rocky theme) is on the set-list, I'll take a wah pedal and sometimes a clean boost for ease of volume changes. Never really go above 9 o'clock on the amp volume and generally don't play the guitar volume fully opened up.

**fws6** · 03-09-2012, 10:10 AM

**kawa** · 03-09-2012, 02:29 PM

Amp location : Behimd the neck side of your standing positions on the
stage and tilt-back towards to your ears.
Amp Stand http://www.ultimatesupport.com/product/AMP-150
Amp Settings ; Not 12 O'clock
V:2.5～3
H:0～3
M:6～8
L:0～4
Master(if has) : Max

**Soco** · 03-09-2012, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Erik Gran

I'm going to play a gig with a big band in a few days, trying to get by with what I've got, as I mainly play acoustic guitar, banjo and mandolin. Now I'm going electric, using a G&L ASAT Tribute ("Telecaster on steroids" ...

) and a Kustom Tube 12A, not really getting the perfect sound for this but anyway, it works. We're going to play compositions of the Norwegian composer Frode Fjellheim, based on old traditional sami music.

I run the guitar straight to the amp, crank the volume way up on the amp, leave tone controls at 12 o'clock, back of tone on the guitar, neck pickup only.

Any thoughts on how to get good, relatively clean sound out, that separates the notes in the chords so it doesn't sound too muddy?

Norwegian:Hei, hyggelig aa se noen fra Snasa! Er fra Namsos...
I have used a G&L ASAT deluxe for big band stuff it works fine.
I think the cranked sound might so well for this stuff. Maybe use less volume on the amp, turn up on the guitar a bit and roll down a bit on the tone control of the guitar. Your settings sound more ideal for blues/jazz/fusion where you could get some more overdrive by turning up the volume..
Frode Fjellheim is great stuff, I have one of his jazzjoik ensemble CD"s with Nils Olav Johansen.

**bluemood** · 03-09-2012, 06:42 PM

I'm using a Parker PM20pro with a ZT lunchbox ,Fulltone fulldrive II when needed.

**Atticus** · 03-10-2012, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by kawa

Amp location : Behimd the neck side of your standing positions on the
stage and tilt-back towards to your ears.
Amp Stand Ultimate Support: Home

Quoted for emphasis. Getting a good position for your amp is especially critical in a big band. I tend to put my amp on top of the bassist's amp, and depending on the size of the gig, I've occasionally used the extension cab as a monitor tilted towards my head.

**jorgemg1984** · 03-10-2012, 08:00 AM

I have these two

Standback - LIGHT • COMPACT • ADJUSTABLE

AER Tilt System - Thomann UK Cyberstore

The first one is very good and light / small.

**Erik Gran** · 03-13-2012, 06:15 PM

Well, the gig went pretty well, I had a good time and have learned a lot, and got a real kick out of the whole experience!

Whatever I made of mistakes and glitches, I take as pointer to where I need to focus, and I've really learned a great lesson on how and what to practice, and how to learn tunes effectively etc. etc. ...

My little amp served me pretty well, but I noticed a few things, that may point me in the direction of what I'll be looking (and listening) for IF I should happen to start searching for another amp ...

As I basically had to crank everything except distortion all the way up to hear myself when the horns kicked in, I had not a good clean sound, but it worked in this setting. Means that I need more headroom, not necessarily a bigger amp, as it was miked anyway, but a better clean amp.

The next thing that was a bit annoying was that it was very hard to control the dynamics through the attack of picking. I played with my fingers, and tried to get a soft attack on sustained chords, and still loud and clear enough to carry through, but experienced that the amp responded very much on/off, so I'd really like something that is really responsive to attack but also with sort of a soft curve from soft to hard sound.

I have a feeling that this points me in the direction of something Fender Princetonish, and will probably see if I can get a chance to try more different amps later on.