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I really appreciate all of the opinions that have been expressed in this thread and think the only way to know if the G3 works for my needs is to buy one and return it if I'm dis-satisfied.
When comparing the Pod HD and Zoom G3 I realize that we are comparing units that aren't in the same price range. The HD is twice as expensive.
I'll order one on Friday (pay day) and try to post some samples if it works for me.
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10-11-2011 07:31 AM
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I think this is the best way to go. This is what I did too. Even better if you can try both units at a music store. The only problem with music stores though is that you always have a bunch of metalheads banging away and it's usually way to loud to try anything. Also having something in your possession for more than half an hour gives you the opportunity to try it with the rest of your gear and in different situations. Tweak it to the point you get something useful out of it.
Originally Posted by Gramps
Not only that. They also have different amp models. For example there is no Fender Deluxe model on the G3. There is a Twin and a Vibroverb as far as Fender amp models go. I don't think it matters so much though because those model names are just indications on what is the approximately simulated tone. None of that stuff is 100% spot on. Even between the real models you often get differences between two identical amps. Originally Posted by Gramps
The Deluxe model alone, was the only reason I tried to gather some info on the HD. I absolutely love this amp!
To be honest, I doubt you can go wrong with either unit. Depending on what you want of course. The G3 has really nice routing capabilities. It's extremely well designed in this respect. No Deluxe model though.... :-(
On the positive side, there is a really nice Matchless kind of sound, which is pretty much a NON treble boost Vox sound. The Vox treble boost circuit most modelers try to simulate is something I never cared for. I do like their normal channels for certain things though.
For stomp happy guys, there are not enough slots to pile up too many effects on the G3. The HD has the edge there. Each unit has some plus and minuses. It all depends on which one will do the overall trick better for you.
May I suggest something?
Try to go easy on the "tube" knob settings. If you stay around the "30" setting neighborhood you'll get enough compression without squashing things too much. Too much below that it gets a bit too lifeless for my taste. Too much above and it gets too mushy. Of course this is just according to my taste.
Also, feel free to mix and match amps and cabs in non conventional ways.
This freedom gave me the best results for the tone I was after.
PLease excuse me if I sound elementary, but I would like to add this too. CAREFUL use of post compression can bring recordings to life. In a live scenario when playing through a half decent PA speaker you might not need that. Live volume introduces a lot of things missing in studio recordings (especially home studio ones).
I hope it works for you. Good luck getting your tone soon with any unit you end up with. Let us know how things worked out. Originally Posted by Gramps
EDIT: It's a really exciting time to play the guitar! There are so many ways to get good tone at affordable prices that even if you feel one unit doesn't do it for you there is another one waiting around the corner. There is a slight danger there for all of us though. We can easily become people who test tools instead of working with them. In my experience, the more I stick to something the more I can make it work for me.
One needs to make a reasonable choice to start with. Then give some time and put some effort to learn how to use properly the chosen device and make it work for his/her needs. This is why between the 100+ effects of the G3 I've only tried about 10 (including amp models) and end up dialing in only 3 patches. All using the same amp model with the same gain and EQ settings.Last edited by harm.on.x; 10-11-2011 at 11:13 AM.
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Wow. When did this become personal? I was laughing at the fact that you were using a PA which would explain the big experience difference. I was very confused that you couldn't hear a difference but then you said you were playing through a speaker which makes more sense. I wasn't laughing at you. Originally Posted by harm.on.x
Aren't you bashing me by saying my opinion is ill-informed? Also, didn't you also offer an opinion based on hear-say from other forums? "The consensus was that BOTH units are a bit on the gainy side with clean tones being a toss up between the two." I don't think it is a tossup, and the HD doesn't sound grainy based on the clips i posted. We are the same amount of informed having owned the G3. Originally Posted by harm.on.x
Exactly. Modeling should simulate a mic on a cab which is why the OP needs something that simulates that for recording, not for running it through a PA. If an amp plays in a room and there is no mic around, does it make a sound? Originally Posted by harm.on.x
I mentioned some modeling products i've heard that sound realistic to me—so i am speaking as a listener that has sought out examples of them. Then i went on to say specifically the G3 modeling didn't sound good to me when i owned it and the interface was cumbersome which is why i sold it. If it works for you, great. From the start i said "hey i think this sounds great" about the HD (and posted clips) and that the G3 didn't sound good when i used it. Originally Posted by harm.on.x
I think in this case it is the exact point of the thread. The OP wanted a product that could record a guitar sound direct to a DAW presumably without mic'ing a speaker. I don't think the G3 would be good for that (based on my use), and the Pod HD would be (based on examples i have heard). Originally Posted by harm.on.x
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You are very smart, aren't you? Originally Posted by spiral
If an amp plays in a room and there is no mic around, does it make a sound?....
I never said I miked any speaker. I used a PA speaker for playing LIVE. Originally Posted by spiral
I've done some tests recording direct and it worked fine for me. I'm sure that the HD would have also worked fine.
Now can you please give it a rest because the more stuff you post the more I realize that you have no idea what you are talking about. Enough!
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Can you post the clips? It would be useful to hear. Originally Posted by harm.on.x
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Nearhigh,
Did you find a simulator?
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I have a Floor Pod Plus that I often use when playing guitar. It has a decent "tweed" sound but most of the others are frankly cartoony. I don't know if that's because the mainstream guitars are cartoony (I don't listen to contemporary radio) or whether the target audience wants that sort of sound. In any case, there are a lot of presets on the thing, and I believe that Line 6 sound quality is higher than some of the others. I recorded a guy a few years ago using a Tele through one direct into the board. It was perfectly noiseless when no signal was present.
I use mine for a couple of FX that I like (wah and tremolo) without having two or three boxes on the floor.
As noted, there's no "Jazz" setting, however.
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I would ask that folks tell us the whole signal chain when they are evaluating an amp modeler.
Imo, running an amp modeler/simulator thru a guitar amp is like putting a mic on a guitar amp speaker and running it thru another guitar amp. That makes no sense.
An amp modeler should be run thru something with a full frequency response like a pa, a powered pa speaker, or a keyboard amp or direct to a board or computer for recording. If you're not running your amp modeler that way your evaluation of the product... well it's pretty meaningless imo.
In my sample of the gnx3000 on this thread I was running straight into a sound card on my computer for recording. When using it for playing live I run it thru two powered pa speakers (stereo, yummy).
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I have a Pod HD desk top unit and I've also owned the HD 300 and HD 500. Nothing cartoonish about those at all. They've come a long way since the earlier units and I find the jazz tones to be absolutely stellar. Originally Posted by lpdeluxe
And Fep, I absolutely agree. No modeling system can ever sound better than the output system that it's running through.
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I just got a Zoom G3 on Friday and have been messing with it quite a bit in the last couple days. The only thing I haven't done yet is record into the PC so I don't have any samples of sounds but am working on it.
I had a $200 budget and needed a couple of nice sounds and USB support for recording tracks to practice with. The G3 has about 10 sounds I can work with, a tuner,USB support, metronome and 40 second looper. If you can find patches you like it's a good deal.
I'm playing a Eastman Ar 805 CE and monitoring through a modest set of phones but it sounds good to my ear. If it sounds as good into the PC I'll be a happy boy.
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I'm glad it worked for you. Nothing nicer than being happy with a newly acquired piece of equipment. Originally Posted by Gramps
It will sound even better recorded straight to your PC via USB.
Edit: Just bear in mind what I, Fep, and Jim have already mentioned about the monitoring system. I can't emphasize this enough.
If you ever had the chance to experiment with plugging an amp head into different cabs I'm sure you've noticed drastic changes in the amp's sound. Something similar applies to modelers too. In the amp-cab scenario the speaker colors the sound and adds it's own characteristics. In the modeller-monitor scenario the speaker influences the overall fidelity and faithful reproduction of the whole modeled signal chain (FX, amp, cab, and mic sims). I've plugged the same stuff to different PA systems and it does make a difference. Have fun!Last edited by harm.on.x; 10-24-2011 at 07:38 AM.
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Ok, I recorded some sound sample from the G3.
This one I used the looper to create a blues minor bed track then used an octive patch to fake a bass part (bs part but you get the idea), and another patch for the solo. Next time through the solo I selected another patch and the final time through I just played around with other patches. There are mistakes in my playing but I hope this shows some of the tones well enough.
http://www.box.net/shared/3c7ygq8yql5q0eodaooz
I just listened to this on my work PC and it is much brighter than my home system.Last edited by Gramps; 10-25-2011 at 11:48 AM.
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Here is a quick version of Stella by Starlight
http://www.box.net/shared/0jfua7u7e7kx0sfv8044Last edited by Gramps; 10-25-2011 at 11:49 AM.
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Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
Hi Jim,
I have a HD300 and I'm finding it difficult finding nice jazz clean sounds.I don't suppose that you could post the settings you used in the video?
Cheers
Eric
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You may also want to consider one of the current-generation Digitech modelers. I sometimes use an RP-355 (US$200 at most online retailers) when I don't want to carry my Eleven Rack and MIDI controller.
Your best approach, though, is to use your own ears. Audition units in your price range and buy the one that sounds best to you.
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Fep has a clip of him playing through a Digitech earlier in this thread. Sounds good.
I'm looking forward to going home to see what my files sound like there and in my car. They sound pretty nasty from my work PC. If they sounded like that at home or through my phones or car I never would have posted them. Real disapointing but if they sound ok in my car and home and through my phones I can asume the work PC is the problem.Last edited by Gramps; 10-25-2011 at 01:36 PM.
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Not yet. I'm waiting for a used Pod HD to pop up, I already narrowly missed one. It's been very interesting to follow the replies and the samples! Originally Posted by Gramps
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How much are used ones going for?
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Sure. It's a pretty simple patch and I used something very similar on the 300. It's the Blackface Lux Nrm model with the Deluxe speaker and an SM57 On Axis. The amp settings are Drive 30; Bass 37; Mid 31; Treb 50; Pres 0; Channel Vol 74; ER 12%; Master 100%; Sag 50%; Hum 0; Bias 50; Bias X 50. Originally Posted by elinfoot
For effects, I'm running the Bias Trem (Tempo synch off; Speed 3.7; Depth 25%; Shape and Vol SNS far left; Mix around 23%) and Spring Reverb (Decay 50%; Pre Delay 100ms; Tone 50%; Mix 27%)
On the mixer, I have the channels panned hard left and right with two balanced mono cables, one running to my FRFR cab and the other to my recording interface/pre-amp.
And for those who aren't not using modelers, this may sound complicated but it's actually about as simple as a modeler can get. I think that's one of the problems that jazz players have with modelers: they over think the whole thing and put together patches that are way more complex than they need. Each added layer of complexity makes the sound more and more synthetic. So keep it simple and clean. In my experience, that works incredibly well.
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A technophobic friend of mine just sold his for $325. Originally Posted by Gramps
Doing this right is not really an inexpensive solution. Add the cost of a modeler to the price of a really good FRFR cabinet and the minimum buy-in is around $900-$1200.
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Gramps, what did you use there? Care to share some of your settings? Originally Posted by Gramps
I like what you're playing. There is a lot of background and picking attack noise though and this is probably what bothers you the most. If I understand the title of your sound files correctly you used the "normalize" function of your recording software. I personally always avoid it. It makes things sounding harsh, adds a lot of noise, exaggerates picking attack, etc. Originally Posted by Gramps
If you get a healthy volume level from your modeler to your computer you don't need any "normalizing". Maaaybe a bit of post compression and that's pretty much it. Give it shot. It might work better and make you happier with your recordings.
I went to rehearsal with a new band today. There was another guitarist and a fairly heavy handed drummer. The other guitarist was playing through an AC30 and lots of pedals. I played my tele through a fuzz pedal and the G3. Balanced out going to a 19" power amp and a really nice passive PA cab. It sounded great! The other guitarist couldn't believe it. He thought he would totally bury me with his AC30 and I actually ended up cutting better through the mix. He said he's bringing his pod to the next rehearsal.
After that, I took the same rig (sans power amp and PA speaker) where I teach. Plugged to the PA there. Poorer quality PA resulted in less satisfying sound. Still fairly good though. Nothing major to complain about.
What I find the most amazing about this technology is this:
Today I spent the entire day going all around the city, using public transport, doing two different jobs and only carrying a guitar and a small case with the G3, the fuzz pedal, cables, music sheets, etc. On the way back home I picked up my 1 1/2 year old son from the baby sitter's house. Pushing the pram and carrying a bag with his stuff and my entire rig.
I finally reached the point where I felt like a violin or a horn player. The people I always envied! The people who turn up to gigs carrying almost nothing. The best bit is that while I was carrying minimal amounts of gear, I never felt I sacrificed my tone.
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You're welcome. Thank you too for posting your patches. I checked them. I think you could get an even rounder and less noisy signal if you lower the presence control some. The G3 has a bright tonal signature across the board. Originally Posted by Gramps
I use just one amp model. One patch for live and one for recording. I'll pm you my settings because I don't want to hijack the thread with that stuff.
Try to stay away from "normalization". It creates a lot of problems and IMO it solves none. Just monitor your input level on our channel strip led indicator and try to get a high enough volume level there. If you need to boost, do it from the preamp (the G3 in this case). The global and patch volume levels controls can come handy. There is also a USB recording level control.
PM is on the way...
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