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the emperor is a gibson johnny smith knockoff. Wes' L5 had a routed pickup, not a floater. floting pickups definitely sound different, and will be on the verge of feedback at tube amp breakup volume. to put a '56 in there you'd have to cut a hole in the top of the guitar...yikes!
Originally Posted by symodiezel
on the epi front, the broadway or the zephyr regent would be better choices for trying to cop a wes tone...
but again, i still think the OP has got the gear already--that Oscar's the big body one like gremboul's posted about, right? that and a fender tube amp is going to get you as close as you can-- the rest is in the hands....er...thumb.
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08-15-2008 10:11 AM
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The Emperor's body is like the L5, and yes it does have a floater, if i bought one, seeing as they are far cheaper than a real L5, sticking in a 56 would be fine with me, like i said a poor mans L5, probably end up with a great sounding guitar. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Let me provide an update: First I must thank everyone who contributed to this thread, I’ve learn much in a very short time. I have to give special thanks to Mr. Beaumont and JohnW400 because they saved me hundreds of dollars. I had originally posted that my 1977 Deluxe Reverb needed to be replaced according to my local music store. I was told at that time that it was “not worth” fixing. Well I took your advice and got a second opinion.
A big problem for me was getting the amp back. The music store sent the amp out to be repaired so it was not in the store when I went to get it. The music store owner said the amp was not there, and added the amp was “no good” so why do you want it back? He also offered to waive the $50 bench charge in exchange for the chassis and speaker. I told him no thanks and that I wanted the amp returned. He said he’d have to see if he could get it back, because it may have been used for parts. I was told that since I did not pick the amp up right away that he thought I was trying to get out of paying the $50 bench charge, so he thought the amp was being abandoned.
Well after daily phone calls to the store and numerous visits (including one by my mother) the amp was finally returned. This process took over two weeks. During this time I located a REPUTABLE amp technician and brought the amp to him last week. Last night he sent an email explaining what was wrong with the amp. He writes: “It is very noisy, the pre-amp tubes were not in the correct sockets. The 12AT7's were not correct and this does make a difference as their gain is much higher than the 12AX7's. You also have two tubes that should be replaced. I have to test the remaining capacitors as the main power supply caps have been replaced. I believe the noise is coming from poor connections on your pre-amp sockets either due to corrosion or poor solder connections.” This morning he called and told me that one pot was indeed disconnected.
His estimate for the repair is $85 plus he suggested replacing 6 pre-amp tubes ($60) for a total estimate of $145. He also said this amp was, without a doubt, worth fixing and once it is done it will sound great. (He will also do a "bias?" to help a bit with my tone.) Although I do not understand all the technical jargon he used, this tech seems to know his stuff and I feel confident in letting him do this repair.
So that is my amp story. I was ready to dump the amp and now I am told that my amp is a real keeper. Again I cannot thank you enough for all your advice.
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I'm glad it worked out for you. Anytime somebody starts with "it's not worth fixing" you should be leary. A good answers is , "Tell me what's wrong with it and how much it will cost and I'll decide if it's worth it or not."
Make them give you a written estimate stating exactly what will be done for that money.
Charging you to check the amp out , although cheesy, is the repairmans perogative. In this case I think he was using it as a tactic to bully you into just leaving the amp and walking away.
you stood your ground. Good for you! I'm sure when you hear this amp after it's been repaired you'll be thrilled
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Yeah man. Good stuff. Sounds like your original amp tech was planning on using that bad boy for the parts as soon as you walked in the door with it. Sounds like one of those shady car mechanics. Anway... I'm probably in your boat.. meaning I play guitar but, to me, the sound magically comes from the amp. I know a lot about the tone-woods and builds of the guitar, even about the pickups... but as far as connections and anything to do with amps, effects, or electronics... I'm lost. Fortunately I've got a couple of friends who can advise me or send me to a trustworthy amp tech, because I'd be easy to screw out of some money.
That's awesome though. One piece of your tone puzzle taken care of. How's the guitar search going?
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Wow, what a story. I think that first repair shop was trying to steal a classic amp from you. I'm sure you won't be doing business there anymore and if I were you I'd start sharing this story with every musician you meet in your town.
Good luck, you've got a really nice amp.
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Awesome news, im glad you got your amp back and that it can be fixed for a minimal cost, that amp is worth fixing and im sure the first guy knew this, it amazes me how quick people are to take advantage of others, and lead them on for their own gain, if i were you i would warn your friends about this guy, obviously not to be trusted..............hope your amp comes back to you and blows you away, im sure it will.
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Hello Symodiezel...
I read the story on your amp repair and was glad to see you got it
fixed by a reputable technician.
I also wanted to thank you for enjoying my you tube video...
I'm Old Fashioned
Take care and keep picking...
The Earl of Soco EAllen1299@aol.com
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Since I have some “downtime” because of the 3-day weekend, I thought I should update this post, especially since this forum truly saved me BIG TIME (Figuratively and literally).
Here’s the latest: I got my amp (early 70s Fender DR) back from the repair shop about a month ago and it sounds wonderful. I cannot say enough about the clear, clean sound. I need to stress that, had I not posted on this forum I would have received a $50.00 credit at my local music store and the amp would have been gone. Again thanks!!
My guitar situation changed a bit two weeks ago. I have an Oscar Schmidt OE-40 that started to hum very loudly. It stopped only when I touched the pick-up with my hand. So I brought it to my amp tech who said I had a ground problem and he recommended a guitar repairman who knows how to work on archtops. He took a look at the guitar and said that for $50 he’d like to rewire the guitar and upgrade the pots (potentiometer). So I agreed and I am waiting to get it back from him.
During the time (two-weeks) that my guitar has been at the shop I started looking at other guitars. I had saved $650 over the summer and wanted to “step-up” to a better instrument and I’d also like to have a back-up guitar (this way I do not have to borrow). Well I found a great used guitar for exactly $650 including tax and the music store even threw in a set-up with flatwound 13s. It is the Epiphone Broadway.
Although I did like the feel on the neck of the Epiphone Byrdland more, it was out of my price range. But, what made me really first notice the Broadway was a video clip I found. Check it out at Nick Colionne Plays Wes Montgomery Style : Learn Jazz Guitar. Listen to Part 4 this is what really sold me. I was lucky to find one at a reasonable price - Let me say thanks to Mark at Folkway Music.
So that’s the end of my tale. Again thank you so much!!
I will post a picture of my new guitar.
This Forum is Fantastic!! Thanks!
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Very glad to hear it all worked out for you - hope to maybe hear of recording of your new guitar too
Also it is good to hear that the amp thing worked out for you earlier in the thread..I can't believe they tried to pull something like that on you.
Oh, and as someone posted in the comments on that link that is an Elitest Broadway that he is playing.
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I think stealing is the correct term here! I think it's outrageous and you should seriously consider to publish his name here to try to put the guy out of bussiness! Realy, I'm kind of shocked by his attempt to steal your amp! Originally Posted by fep
But back on the subject: congratz with your guitar! A guitar of this type is definately the way to get closer to Wes' tone. But try to learn using your thumb as well!
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Congrats man! You did well. I'm glad everything worked out for you. You wound up with a nice guitar and a fantastic amp! You were smart to get your Deluxe Reverb back, I too believe he was trying to rip you off. A silverface Deluxe Reverb is going for over $1200 on the 'Bay'. Stay well away from that 'repair' guy, and do spread the news to everyone you know to steer clear of this dude.
Now start getting that thumb in gear!
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Hello, I just wanted say Hi to everyone and to introduce myself. I'm Al, a guitarist for over 40 yrs; WHEW...sort of dates me doesn't it !
I really enjoy the posts I've read, and sure I will return to read all the interesting and valuable info available. If I see something to which I can provide helpful sugestions I will certainly do so.
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Hi Matt !
Thanks for the welcome; it's nic e to be onboard. Just discovered all the enthisiast very recently. Being an "older person".. I never considred the net as a valuable resource to meet so many avid guitarists, most of wehom as interested in many of the same things as myself. I have seen posts on many of the questions that I have pondered for YEARS....I had no idea that the answers to many of them were readily available...if only I had known "where to look".
Enjoyed reading your impressive bio.
Thanks Al
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Revisiting Frisellfan's point about finding your own sound....I kind of guess that you create your own sound even if it's not the one that you think you want.
Case in point: I play in a workshop band, Saturday mornings. Anyone can turn up and play. Usually there's a rhythm section (including me) but often 2 pianists (alternating), occasionally another guitarist (we work with one another!), but each week anywhere between 6 to 12 saxophonists, and maybe a couple of trumpeters... you get the idea. Last Saturday was the first time that I'd seen the other guitarist in a while. I knew that he was looking to upgrade his Aria (Super style) to a 175 that he was buying in from the USA; while I'd made the huge leap from my Epi Joe Pass to a D'Angelico NYL-5. Having greeted each other with the words "New Guitar?", when we reached the half-time break, we traded and started to jam on a Bb blues. Result - on my D'A/Vox Valvetronix set-up, he still sounded like him (great playing but a denser, fatter sound) and on his 175/AER 60, I still sounded like me (more open, semi-acoustic sound).
Mind you, when I went for the last solo of the day with a patch that I'd created to sound like a Hammond (almost no treble, more gain, hall reverb, Univibe way up there, and the real key to that, the Octave Divider - a tip I picked up from Esmond Selwyn), I stopped sounding like me and started to sound like Jimmy Smith.......
And if those of you across the pond are saying "Who's Esmond Selwyn??" - google him immediately.....Last edited by mangotango; 11-25-2008 at 12:31 PM.
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Hi:
Okay, are you ready for this? I am totally in disagreement with the gentleman suggesting you buy a Roland solid state amp. ANY solid state amp will give you a tight, sterile sound that is not only inflexible but hard on the ears of an experienced musician. Wes did not use a solid state amp, guaranteed.
Also with regard to the Deluxe Reverb, the amp tech you spoke with has a brick for a brain. While many solid state amps are difficult or impossible to repair, the reverse is true for tube amps. The most expensive component to repair in a tube amp is the output transformer and I'm willing to bet your amp is not needing one. In working condition, a '77 Deluxe Reverb is worth upwards of $800.00. I recommend you find a self-employed amp tech, not an unfortunate individual working in a music store.
Good amp technicians are out there, just ask other musicians where they are getting their tube amps serviced and ignore any tech working in a "department store" setting.
You can also watch Ebay for comparable prices on amps similar to yours, and remember, if someone tries to sell you a solid state amp, chuckle a little and run for the hills. The tone is in the tubes.
Good Luck,
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03-12-2011, 05:23 PM #42Archie Guest
Sorry, Eddie, gotta disagree with you there.
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standel super custom XV
70 watts
solid state
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Simply not true--lots of jazz players use solid state amps. We're not talking about $75 line 6 practice amps here. Originally Posted by eddiefremontjazz
That said, in this VERY old thread, Wes did use tube amps--I'm pretty sure the Standel model he used was tube as well...but I've been wrong. But that reflects more of what was available and good. Solid State Amps have come a long way...that's why you'll see some of the biggest naes in jazz using Acoustic Image, Henriksen, Polytone and the like--because they're top quality great sounding amplifiers.
Tube sniffings for those rock players who like the sound of their amp malfunctioning.
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Well, this discussion keeps on turning up all the time of course, but I can't help myself, so here it comes:
I have yet to find a solid state amp that can beat a (good) tube amp for overdriven tones, but hey.. for jazz I always play clean!
My mosfet Session Rockette 30-amp sounds and responds(!) comparable to my Fender Blues Deluxe and my Silverface Twin Reverb and I love using it when I can't bring a tube amp. To be honest, I don't miss tubes one little bit then.
In general, I find mosfets to be more 'tubey' then transistors by the way.
And the trick is to find a good solidstate amp, but the same goes for tube amps of course. Henriksen, Aer, Polytone and alikes are well accepted by jazzguitarist everywhere and just stating that no good tones come out of solidstate amps is beside the facts.
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For his exact late 60's tone: L5 with humbucker, flatwound strings 14-58, on Ampeg Gemini amp. But that's a lot of money.
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One thing I figured out: I will NEVER sound like Wes Montgomery, or probably any other similar jazz guitarist. If I'm not trying to sound like him or similar, I'll save A) a lot of frustration, and B) I'll enjoy his playing even more, not trying to copy him. What has worked for me is an old Washburn Strat knockoff with a Seymour Duncan Cool Rails in neck position and a Roland MicroCube amp through a direct box into the PA. People snicker but some comment after hearing it on how well the setup works. And I don't break my back!
I was disabused of chasing specific models years ago by getting an old Harmony Bobkat solidbody. I stripped it down to the wood (solid maple neck, fibrous body with thin maple wood on each side), put a $10. Gibson Melody Maker pickup and heavy strings (.O14) on it. I went to a reading band at the local community college. Sat next to a guy with a Gibson Super 400 - and my $40 axe sounded better than his did!
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In my experience, that 'singing' tone, is all in your fingers, a lot of times when people say 'tone' they are really talking about the 'touch' of the player. A lot of Wes's tone, has nothing to do with equipment, you get a big box guitar and plug it in, EVERYTHING ele is the way the man handles the guitar. Spend time making your guitar sing. You'll find if you spend time learning to caress a string, caress a note, perfect your fret to fret sliding until it is flawlessly seamed from one to the next. Get your touch light and firm, direct and precise.
The vast majority of the tone of a player is their touch. I'm almost convinced if Wes Montgomery picked up a Les Paul plugged into a 100W Marshall stack, he'd still sound like Wes Montgomery.
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The whole Deluxe Reverb story reminds me of one that goes the other way and illustrates that there are still honest craftsmen. I think this was on a mandolin site. A woman found an old mando in her attic and brought it to a craftsman to see if it was worth fixing up and giving to her grandkids (under ten) to play with. He looked at it and suggested she have it fixed up and auction it off to pay for their college education-it was an original Gibson Lloyd Loar F-5, definitely worth more than a Deluxe Reverb...
Brad
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Unrelated/Related
Yesterday I rode my bike up to the bar to meet my old college roommate for a few bourbons. When I got there I realized I'd left my lock for my bike at home! So I figured I'd just leave it near the door and hope nobody stole it. Not only was it not stolen, someone actually came in and had them annouce someone 'forgot to lock their bike outside.'
I still think the overwhelming majority of humanity is honest and decent, honest and decent just isn't newsworthy.
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