-
Hey guys was wondering if anyone has an opinion on the Joe Pass Emperor by Epiphone.
It's only $600 and I know it doesnt even compare to the gibsons but is it a good jazz guitar for the money?
Also is it worth an extra $200 more than the dot?
-
-
I have an Epi Joe Pass model Emperor, as well as a Ibanez George Benson GB-10. I have to say that while the Ibanez has a slimmer neck and feels faster, the Epi really holds it own and is a terrific value. Mine was $200 used and $200 for a re-fret job. It is actually louder electrically than the Ibanez, although the Ibanez has a smoother, warmer tone.
The Epi does not feedback too much, and is pretty versatile soundwise, although the tone is more "percussive" than the more expensive archtops. All in all it's a terrific value and I am thrilled with it. You're not going to get as much guitar for the money on anything else.
-
The Epi is an economy guitar and even if you find a killer deal on one of the Artcore axes, will still cost less than half. The Joe Pass is fetching around 200-300 in moderate shape. If you've got a lot of dough, spring for the Ibanez you like (though you may still have to tweak it in set up. My GB-10's top string *still* does not speak as clearly as it ought to, and that's after an $85 set-up.)
The more expensive guitar is going to come through in tone from the quality of wood (the Epi is only plywood or *ahem* laminate) and playability (very subjective as well).
If you don't have an archtop you can't go wrong with the Emperor, but it isn't fair to compare it to a $2,000 guitar. Of course, your mileage may vary, but I own both (my GB-10 is a Team J-Craft) so there you have it...
-
I bought a used one two years ago--my first full hollow archtop. I'd set out to buy a Ibanez 105 with the neck floater but didn't like it amplified at all through a couple of different tube amps the Guitar Center had lying around. Granted it had crap angel hair pasta skinny wound strings. They wanted $729 without case. I also tried a couple of the cheaper Ibanez models but none did it for me. The Chinese made new Joe Pass sounded like crap and its fretboard was dry as a bone with cracks you could stick a dime into. Anyhow, I went to a close-by used gear shop and bought a 2006 Korean made Epi JP for $450 plus another $40 for hard case and a set of Chrome 12's, went home and re-strung it. Played it every day since. The tuners are "Grover" and hold really well. The pickguard, trapeze tailpiece and original mud humbuckers are all gone. Replaced the tailpiece with a plain AllParts cheapy, the pickups with single coil low impedance Charlie Christian types, and the bridge with a tunamatic with nylon saddles. No more mud. Lots of fun. Never been in its case and has aged wonderfully in my smoky basement music room. For $200-300 a pop, I'd like a couple of more of them to see what they'd sound like with the P-90's and PAF clones I've got in drawers waiting for new homes.
-
I have a Korean JP from the early/mid 90's, built by Samick. It was my first "jazz" guitar and I didn't at the time realise that it was the Squier Strat of archtops i.e. pretty much the standard entry-level guitar.
Always a nice guitar to play, but the pickups were a bit....polite, so they've been replaced with Gibson 490T & R bought cheap from a friend; also, the scratchplate has long since gone and the tailpiece is being replaced. Had the wiring redone and all in all it's a good, playable guitar that's matured nicely into being a decent no. 2 for me (my D'Angelico being the first choice, obviously). Took it to a gig a little while ago at a venue that I really didn't like and where I didn't want to risk the New Yorker. Played well, sounded fine, no problems.
If you can get one of the older models, I wouldn't think that you'd have too much effort to produce a playable, decent-sounding guitar. It may not be a vintage 175...but you're not paying those kind of prices either, so....
-
I am with Mango. Like all of these MIC archtops, I would change out the tuners, pups, bridge, wiring, have the frets dressed, and ditch the pickguard. At that point, you probably have spent about $1k, and have a decent, playable guitar that is still quite a bit less than a 175 or like.
Instead of doing the above though, I would find either a Gibbo ES 165, Howard Roberts (with round soundhole), or Heritage 575 used. They go for $1200-$1500, the Heritage a bit more. However, if you budget is under $1k, then the Epi/Artcore/Peerless/Stromberg/Loar/et al, MIC stuff is the way to go.
-
Derek,
Sadly not in the UK. If you can find a used ES165 here for anything less than £1000 ($1,650 currently), you're doing very well indeed. The other two you mention will probably be nearer £1,500 each.
I paid £350 for mine ages ago and have probably spent another £175 on it. Personally, if I were looking to pay £525 for a guitar like that nowadays, I would go the extra £'s and get a MIK Peerless Monarch.
-
So the newer JP models are made in Korea? is their a Joe Pass model and a Joe Pass Empereor model or are those the same thing? I really am trying to decide between one of these and or an Artcore.
-
I got to play a Joe Pass model today and liked it a lot. They had an Ibanez AG75 and another higher numbered one. It wasn't the Artcore 103 or 105, but I can't remember what it was. I liked the JP model best. I think I might try to score one off Ebay. It felt good. I liked the neck. It was fairly loud but not as loud as I was expecting for a hollowbody.
-
i have two of the epi joe pass guitars. a sunburst and a cherry burst. on the latter i changed the pup's to gfs 59 and found a great improvment. i also like the shorter 24.75 scale. the smaller body size is also is plus.
-
I got one new a little over a month ago and it has so far done me proud. Granted, I'm not a pro and this is the first achtop I've owned, but I still think its a good guitar.
Time will tell with mine if it holds up, but from the busy last month I have had, I'll guess it will hang in there. I will admit that I have a few little changes that I will be making in the electronics, but without buying a brand new custom-for-you guitar I've got pretty close to what I want. This is a very service-able guitar for a budget player.
~Danny Boy
-
Hi Danny, I would be interested to know what is wrong with the electronics on the Joe Pass you have just purchased. I read these forums regulary and hear of so many guys rewiring or replacing pickups. I get asked all the time if I play the guitar and my answer is mostly no because I can not play as good as most of the people I sell guitars to or work with. However I have worked with a lot of very good guitarists and I am always amased how fussy they can be when buying a guitar for their personal desires but when it comes to performing I am also amased how they can pick up any resonable guitar that can hold tune and walk on stage an do a gig. I have worked with Jazz guitarists that take a different stock standard guitar on stage nearly every time whilst other take only one on stage and yet their collection at home is enormus but they never see the stage. If I was a great guitarist I would have a bigger collection than I have now, but most of all I would love to be one of those great guitarist that could perform on any resonable guitar and not feel that my playing is compromised by the guitar. The feeling I get from most great performers is that nothing is perfect even though they would like it to be but and unless it is way below par then they just get on the stage make it work. Just a point of view from a person who has worked with performers for over 20years and also deals in guitars.
-
I'm with you Richard--what exactly is the difference between the stock Epi humbuckers on the JP and Gibson PAF HB's or other aftermarket pups suitable for jazz? Are the other pups wound more or what?
I admit I'm a novice when it comes to guitar electronics, but it seems to me there's a lot of mystery and myth surrounding certain electronics, kind of like that surrounding the wood that prewar Martins were made from, for instance.
I have kept the stock pups on my Epi JP and am satisfied with them. Without replacing them with something else I guess I'll never know if I could get a better sound...
-
Hi Doctor Jeff, The difference between a pick up fitted to a Epi J.P and a more expensive guitar should be that it is of much better quality. Yes, meaning that it should be better wound among other things. Now the result of that could mean that it is more responsive, quiter and offering other benefits like warmth, very focoused and a of cause a personal desire or liking of such inherant qualities and prefered combinations of those features of that pickup. I do appreciate all of the above but all that said and done I am personally not into customising or altering a guitar that works resonably well and will always be in awe of the fine guitarist that can make most resonably standard model guitars sound very good. Always remember when customising a guitar it may or may not finally meet your requirement but it may or may not also meet others requirements when you sell it. Never forget the old saying: "One mans music is another mans noise" A person buying a poular guitar like a J.P is often looking for a guitar that sounds the way they have always heard that guitar before and with all its natural characteristics.
-
I've seen some pictures of the Joe Pass Epiphone. Is that tacky "Joe Pass" signature on the pick guard a sticker or permanent?
-
Hi Baltar, The signature is not a sticker. It is painted on. The original Epiphone Emperor guitar, before it was called a Joe Pass had no signature. I had one of those in the early ninties. I had another where part of the signature had been warn off from the previous owners pick brushing over it so I polished it all off. You could still see where the signature had been.
(If you got up very close and looked very closely) Apart from the signature thing which does's not worry most buyers it is a very good guitar. Actually it sells better with the signature.
-
Richard,
Thanks for the info you sent me.
Really there isn't anything too bad about it. My biggest complaint is that the jack seems to be too short (not very many threads for the screws to bite into) for the wall of the guitar. It has come unscrewed a couple of times and it's a bit of a pain to feed it back in there right. However, I figured one method out for feeding it back in using a 1/4" dowel rod...
As far as the pickups are concerned, I have a small amount of buzz/distortion on the low tone end of the rhythm pickup. After letting a more experienced electric guitar player hear it, he suggested that I just take it apart and put it back together again since it was most likely just a bad or week solder. I haven't had a chance yet, but that's what I plan to do. In the mean time, the problem seems to be solved by turning the tone nob to extremely bright for that pickup (and that sounds find tone-wise to me).
Overall, though, it has a nice mellow sound through a 212R Fender Frontman amp and even responds well to the amp's built in distortion/overdrive; plus it does great with a Danelectro FAB Chorus pedal I ran on it. Everyone I had showed it to and played it for have been impressed. As one friend put it, "That's pimp!"
~ Danny Boy
-
I have a soft spot for old Joe but the first thing I did was to replace the stock pickguard with one made of rosewood and to replace the plastic knobs with rosewood knobs. Looks much classier now, IMO. (I did keep the old stuff in case I want to resell.)
-
Hi guys, Thanks Baltar.
Now that something I forgot to mention. If you do change anything on your guitar please keep the original parts and either put them back on when you sell the guitar or at least supply them to the buyer. Always make sure you are not drilling any holes or making any changes to the guitar that will be permenent and scar it for life. Always remember what looks beautiful to you could look ugly to someone else. You're fine instrument is always worth more on the market in original condition than one up graded or customised. Why? because you have limited yourself to only buyers who by chance might appreciate what you have done.
Last edited by Dirk; 04-07-2020 at 12:22 PM.
-
The difference between on e pick up and another can be enormus to some and not so much to others and there should be no doubt that when you pay a lot of money for a guitar the pick up should be better. The difference can be very personal and one player might make a guitar sound great no matter what pick up is fitted (Within reason) Now a days with the Asian guitars beening so well made the margin difference has narrowed quite a lot and many player can't see the point any more in spending the the difference with a price margin that has actually widened. The timbers used in acoustic guitars are very important but mostly relate to the acoustic results in terms of tone quality,... but with a magnetic pick up on a acoustic guitar that difference could be very hard to note as the magnetic pickup picks up most of it's sound directly from the strings. A good example of my theory is when an acoustic archtop that sounds horrid acoustically can sound quite pleasing plugged in. I understand that different timber on an electric guitar can inprove or lessen sustain and the resonace of the timber does play some part in the tone. However, how much is the big question with magnetic pickups? The wisest comment I can make on this topic is that the result is the whole package of the guitar and perhaps not just one feature or thing that many look for and lets not forget the personal taste and how the guitar will responds to one person or another.
-
Showbiz, I agree with you and your theory. I was merely illlustrating the point that something had to be sacrificed so that Epiphone could sell the JP at a price point competitive with the other Asian manufacturers. I swapped them out to change the tones, tone being totally subjective. The JP is a well-made instrument that is relatively cheap, especially used as I bought it. They have to make sacrifices somewhere and it is usually the electronics and other non-wood parts like the tacky pickguard and frilly tailpiece with those happy twirls. Grover tuners and pots are great and a little regular contact cleaner squirt on the selecter switch keeps it scratch-free. I like the JPs so much that I will get another one when the timing and price are right and will immediately pull the stock pickups and install some that I have in my desk drawer, maybe the Phat Cats. The upshot of the pickup change is that, with the standard pickups pictured, I could not turn any of my amps' (tube and SS) bass controls up to more than 3-4 without farting out. Now I can run the bass full-on with no mud whatsover, even through the 15" SS bass amp I use.
-
Hi again Mongrel, I agree that it is most likely that the electronics on a Asian guitar that is most likely to be less superior to U.S. made and in some cases the the sound that our ears have become acoustomed to, whether right or wrong. I have been a sound engineer for 15 years and I don't want to go into low frequencies talk because the low frequencies are the most missunderstood and most complicated part of sound. Again our ears (Society) in many case have become acoustomed to distortion. D.J's over drive the bottom end of a P.A system and in many cases our ears accept that also. We accept a fat archtop sound from a magnetic neck pick up which sounds nothing like a true natural acoustic archtop. What is correct? If it sound good to you that might be the most important thing that matters. However, "Never forget one mans music could be another mans noise" And finally remember when you change your pickup over keep the old one so when you sell you can put them back on.
-
I have a 1992 JP I removed the pickups replaced them with Gibson Classic 57's couldn't tell the difference other than they were louder. Put the originals back in! I think you should buy the best amp you can afford rather than trying every pickup on the planet.
-
Hi Pickguard, I have to agree with you and it's very interesting that you should say that because the rule of thumb is that a good microphone is only as good as the rest of the equipment it is being used on. That does not mean that it won't sound better than a bad one on inferior equipment it just means that you won't certainly enjoy its full potential if the rest of the equipment is inferior. Again it comes back to the same old thing. It's the total compatible package which also includes the guitarist that makes any resonable guitar work. No matter how many guitar you have they all have their own sound and thank God for that. However, it is always interesting to her a great guitarist play many different guitars and yet still sound like him.
-
So, a while back I noticed that I'm getting a bad distortion sound out of one the pickups of my Epiphone Emperor II that was more than undesirable. I've been putting off working on it for a while because of time and what not. Well, I finally got the opportunity and took the electronics clean out of it to get a look at what's going on.
So far, I can't figure that anything is actually wrong with it.
So, I have a few options ahead of me and some questions.
- Replace just the pickups and hope the wiring is not the problem.
- Replace the wiring and hope the pickups aren't the problem.
- Replace all the electronics in the guitar (a costly proposition at this time).
- Put it back together, hope I do it right, turn the pickup that is the problem down and wait until I get brave again.
I've got a good sense of what I'm considering doing, but I need to get one glaring question out of the way.
Observation: There are tons of wiring diagrams from everything to brand new Roland ready strats to antique custom Gibson jazz boxes out there and they all seem to follow a fairly regular pattern for a given number of pickups, tone/volume knobs, and type of selector switch.
Which brings me to my question:
Does it really matter what wiring diagram I follow as long as it is for 2 humbucker p/u's, 2 tone knobs, 2 volume knobs, and a 3 way switch?
Thanks ahead for any insight on this one.
~DB
Reply With Quote
PSA: German Vintage Guitar closing shop
Today, 10:44 AM in For Sale