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I'm interested in buying a not too pricy Django/gypsy jazz type acoustic guitar - mainly for chord-melody type playing. One I have seen is the Aria MM10:
which appears very good value. But can anyone point me to a review of a few possibilities, or offer any advice from experience? Grateful for any help, thank you.
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06-08-2011 03:15 PM
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IMHO, the only cheap gypsy style guitars that really get the sound are the Ciganos. If you have a little bigger budget, their big brothers, the Gitanes, are also good (you get more bling and options with Gitane)
The Arias, Cordoba Gitano, SX, Woodland, etc. are all built waaay to heavy to really put out the volume a decent GJ guitar can. They probably sound fine in your house, but after one jam session with folks playing better guitars you'll know--you won't hear yourself!
I learned the hard way with a Cordoba (pretty much identical to the Aria and probably made in the same factory, they had the same D hole shape--which is a little different than what most makers use--the Cordoba even uses an Aria tailpiece). Pretty guitar, played nicely, and just simply didn't have the sound. Just sounded like a dead acoustic guitar with a little extra high end bite.
Ciganos can be had under $400 if you look. Worth every penny. Not a lot of budget options in the GJ world...don't get stuck with a wall hanger.
Btw, Grande Bouche is a good choice for chord melody playing...a little more bass, and a slightly more "mellow" tone...Last edited by mr. beaumont; 06-08-2011 at 03:34 PM.
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What do you consider "budget"?
I have a Gitane Lulo Reinhardt and it is excellent. It is extremely light and feels very delicate, which is good and bad. Very high quality and plays and sounds great. I just feel like I'm going to break it!
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The Lulo Reinhardt model is a gorgeous guitar...my jammin' parter has one--I love the way it sounds...
Maybe the prettiness and that thin fast neck make it seem fragile...or the fact it's so light...but it's a well made instrument. A good deal more expensive than the Aria the OP is looking at, but ten times the instrument.
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Cheers for that Mr B - I think you have saved me from an unwise purchase. Spend wisely and spend once as they say... Don't like the idea of a "dead acoustic with a little extra high end bite" at all (I already have a rubbish sounding acoustic
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
). I have found the Cigano at Hobgoblin music (a good UK chain for acoustic instruments) going for £369 which I could stretch to. I do hear what you are saying regarding the Gitanes - and I can see what you mean about the extra bling factor, having looked at some images online, however, probably for my modest purposes I will stay with the Ciganos (the Gitanes seem to be about twice the price in the UK).
While I have your attention, could you possibly say something about the differences between the D and oval soundhole models, and also I notice some models have 14 frets to the body join, others 12. Purely on aesthetics I must say I like the D soundhole look!
Thanks for that djelley, I'm afraid I really do mean "budget" (certainly less than £500 in the UK) so I think the Lulo Reinhardt is out of contention, but interesting to hear about all the same. Originally Posted by djelley
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generally, "O" holes are longer scale and 14 fret connection, D holes are shorter scale and 12 fret (Long scale is looong--26.5 in.)
Gitanes do give you some more options, for example, my DG-320 is a long scale D hole model...but you can't go wrong with the Cigano.
Post pics if you pick up a new baby...I think you'll really enjoy playing this type of guitar...be sure to get a nice, really thick pick and look at dennis chang's video's on youtube to get started.
You can play these guitars any way you want, but there is a way to hit 'em that really makes 'em bark...
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Hi everyone!
As we are starting another 'best selmer macaferri' thread I thought I'd show this + link. My own GJ guitar has a built in piezo but this looks good as there is'nt any mods to the body of the guitar. Retail is 220 EUD. Can't vouch for the sound, anyone try one yet
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Thanks for that - probably a D hole for me then Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
, although Hobgoblin also have the Cigano oval hole version at the same price, so I should be able to try both.
Regarding the pick - I normally play using my fingers, either using my index finger nail like a pick (it works for me as I have tough nails, probably not for everyone!) or fingerstyle. Than said, I will get a gypsy type pick or two to have a go with - A friend (a really superb jazz guitarist) is encouraging me to try Dugain (I may have spelt it wrong) which I think some of the gypsy guys like to use.
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Continuing on the topic of purchasing a GJ guitar, has anyone purchased one from a site called www.djangobooks.com? They seem to have very good prices on the Gitanes, as well as a number of vintage instruments. Just curious. thanks.
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I've bought an amp and picks and strings and etc, but not a guitar. It's a trustworthy site and they've got the good stuff. Originally Posted by bmw2002
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I bought a pickup from them...michael answered all my questions and steered me toward the product that best suited my needs...even saved me $50 from what I thought I was gonna spend.
So I say good site, trustworthy, good prices, good selection. My jammin' partner bought his Lulo from them and he said it arrived set up perfectly.
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I bought one of the Cafe Americain 'Renata' Grande Bouche models secondhand from a guy who sells really nice guitars as a bit of a side business. So at least I was able to play it a little before I bought it.
Before I bought it, I did my reserach and these guitars have been poo pooed by Djangbooks as being probably made in China.
Now, nobody who commented had actually played one or handled one...
I think that it's a decent guitar and as I paid about half of what they seem to sell for I was pretty happy with it. It's certainly got that bitey drive to it and also sounds lovely and mellow too if you play it more gently.
It's neither overly light or overly heavy to handle, other people who have played it enjoyed playing it and have commented on how nice it is.
Admittedly, neither I nor my frinds are famous Jazz Muso's. So please take this information as it is intended, just one ordinary guys take on a guitar....
Last edited by Chuditch; 06-14-2011 at 11:24 PM.
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I bought an amp from Djangobooks also and although it took a while to get, it wasn't their fault and they were receptive to my questions. And the price was about $100 cheaper than any of the competition sites. Michael Horowitz the owner, personally took care of my issues and followed up on the delay in manufacturing. I'd have no qualms in ordering again from him. Hope that helps.
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Hi,
I had a chance to try a Gitane D-500 while in NY last week. It was an extremely nice guitar. Very light weight and projected nicely. The neck was wide and the back of the neck had a flat spot running the length of the neck which made it very comforatble to play.
I was so struck by the guitar I ordered it last week online.
I am not a big fan of playing acoustics (I just struggle with them). The only one that I liked at guitar center was a $4000 Taylor and that wouldn't be possible! The Gitane just felt right. I was considering Cigano but couldn't find one to try.
I hope you find a guitar you love!
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I hope so too, thanks for the kind thought - I'm still yet to buy, but for me the Cigano seems a good bet. I will probably take Mr B's advice and go for the Grand Bouche version which is just slightly more to buy in the UK. No rush, I will pick my shop and go and try it when I have the time, rather than risking an online purchase. I'll let everyone know when I have it! Originally Posted by Bflat
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Bflat: did you play the one they had at Rudy's? I was in NYC on business a few weeks ago, and stopped by most of the music stores on 48th street. The only one that had the Gitane was Rudy's, and they only had the D-500 in stock. i agree it is a very nice guitar. I just need to figure out how to finesse this on the home front first before purchasing.
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I bought a high-end GJ guitar from Michael and one of my jam partners bought 2 over the last few years. He is very good to do business with and he's in it for the long haul. Very expert and glad to help. Originally Posted by bmw2002
BTW, the D-hole (or grande-bouche) guitars are a little easier for the player to hear. Petit-bouche instruments generally project more forward. In my experience, a 12-fretter puts the bridge in the perfect place for adding rich overtones, and the 14 fret guitars of either scale length (640mm or 670mm) have more bite and just a bit more volume.
Good luck with your hunt!
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By far the best acoustic pickup I've ever heard for archtops or Selmer/Macaferri clones is the Schertler-Dyn
They're expensive, but unlike a piezo, they do sound exactly like your guitar played acoustically. A friend uses it for Swing gigs (with bass, rhythm guitar, violin, vocals and a tasteful drummer) on an old carved archtop and is able to do pretty loud gigs using just the Schertler and really sound acoustic. The violin player uses a slightly different version of the same pickup.
I saw a guy the other night w one on a vintage archtop that also had an old DeArmond. He used the Schertler for comping and eased up the DeArmond for soloing... it sounded fantastic!
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I use this:
[Django Station] - Micro pour guitare acoustique / Audio technica AT831b et adaptateur AT8444
It came with the guitar, not satisfied with the sound unless i use the empress para EQ to cut down the feedback frequencies, and one unwanted annoying high 'pick against strings' sound. then it starts to be nice, very natural, but not much body
The guy i bought the guitar to was touring intensively and using this audio technica system WITH a magnetic pickup and mixing them to get the body from the magnetic pickup and the 'natural' sound of the audio technica
hope that helps
n.b. just so you know.. my tests are done on a Dupont MD-50, might be very different from the gitanes or cigano
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I searched in vain for a budget backup for my old Saga, the Cigano is not bad and if your budget doesn't stretch then it's really your only choice imho, but if you can afford it try and raise the cash to get a Gitane. Here in the UK they are currently pretty expensive, not exactly budget prices but they are good.
Thomann.de do a Harley Benton GJ model which I have also played and is not bad value. Just noticed they also stock an extensive range of GJ guitars including the Gitane DG-250 which I came very close to buying myself. Plumped for my Hagstrom HJ-800 instead though.
BTW the Lulo Reinhardt model is a cracking guitar, if I had the means I would get one myself. I played Lulos guitar last year when I was in the support band at his Glasgow concert; we had a short play together before the gig which was just great. I love that he is trying to expand the boundaries of this music and has made a conscious decision to resist going out and playing Nuages etc nite after nite. Lovely guy.
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Cheers for the information Tom, but really I can' justify the cost of a Gitane - so as you suggest, probably a Cigano. Will have a look the the Thomann stuff though. Originally Posted by tomw
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Just my two cents here.
I just want to mention that, even if the gitanes are decent gypsy guitars, they are nowhere as good as a real one, i would say you get a 60% gypsy 40% dreadnought sound out of a gitane.
After playing a dupont for a few years, i feel that:
- the notes are very 'slow' to come out of the guitar, while a real gypsy is deally direct
- the sound is too bassy, a real gypsy guitar had low mediums, no lows, it sounds bad when you play alone, but it's a KILLING swing machine when you are playing in a band, or with a double bass. the bass kills the sharp attack of the rythm playing while the real gypsy guitar will 'purr'
- the overall sound of lower quality gypsy guitars is not 'noble' you have volume, but no tone. it's like comparing a dog barking to an opera singer.
My point is, IF you can save up a bit and find a good deal with a second hand real gypsy guitar, or find a local luthier who builds decent ones (probably easier in europe, idk), it's usually much better than gitanes (even lulo, or jorgenson model (haven't tried the others)), and of course ciganos (who are really 'barking' and not 'singing' imo). Don't get me wrong gitanes are nice guitars, but i think they are not fully adapted to get the real sound. (again think 60%gypsy 40% dreadnough).
Hope that helps
p.s. 60%gypsy 40% dreadnough also means that gitanes are MUCH more useful if you want to use your guitar for other styles than jazz ou gypsy jazz. for other styles, a 100% gypsy guitar is just horrible.Last edited by add4; 06-22-2011 at 12:18 PM.
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I would not wish to disagree with anything you say, and I find the information very interesting, so cheers for posting. That said, I am not intending (I don't think!) to get heavily into gypsy jazz style playing - more I want a reasonable instrument to use for general acoustic playing - chord melody mostly, and for the odd performance maybe (there is an acoustic players evening locally which might like to go to). But I will have a further look around to see what spending just a bit more might get me - sometimes bargains can be found! Also, I know there is a good luthier for gypsy jazz instruments near me, namely this chap: John Le Voi Guitars - Luthier specialising in Selmer Maccaferri Style Gypsy Jazz Guitars so I can at least ask him about his prices (probably more than I want to get into though... Originally Posted by add4
) - but a terrific craftsman, and a bloody nice bloke to boot, so I would recommend him to anyone.
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I have played with someone who had a Le Voi guitar last week. it sounded great and the guy was very happy. didn't tried it thought.
I think if you are not heavily into the style, then a gitane is more than enough. and MUCH more affrodable than a le voi guitar (if i remember correctly, the guy who had it payed around 3000 euros for it ) But it's always nice to try a realy gypsy guitar just to know how it's supposed to sound like (in fact, like a VERY bad acoustic guitar: no bass, very direct sound, most 'classical' luthiers hate it 
)
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Meggy - sounds like Add4's comments re the Cigano might work in your favour, with your intended usage! Do try some other guitars if you go to Hobgoblin, so you know its really what you want. You may not need the strong attack and relatively short sustain of a gypsy style guitar for your planned usage. Good luck!
Last time I checked JLVs guitars were c £2000+.
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