Les Paul Custom and Tele for jazz???

**PeteTW** · 02-20-2011, 09:17 AM

As a newbie to the forum I consider myself a very advanced rock player and a newbie jazzer, I'm sure you know what I mean

! Anyway I've been hiding in my room for years trying to get my jazz chops together and have finally come out with a little confidence. I don't (as yet) have a jazz box but I've been playing my jazz so far on either my '78 tobacco sunburst LP custom or my 80s sunburst tele.

To be honest, both sound really great on the neck pick up and as they're guitars I've been playing for years I feel very at home with them. I love ebony fingerboards so the custom is spot on.

While I've seen a few jazz guitar players using teles (in fact my first ever jazz gig was Gary Potter at Portsmouth Uni in 1990 who rippped all over a tele - I've been trying ever since) I've not seen anybody apart from Les Paul himself or Al Dimeola using les pauls...this seems kind of weird really.

Does anybody here play a LP for their jazz?

Cheers

Pete

**Stackabones** · 02-20-2011, 10:23 AM

Welcome aboard, Pete.

Jazz is music, not gear.

I'm sure someone will chime on other LP jazzers. I've had my eye on a tuxedo LP Custom.

**P4guitar** · 02-20-2011, 10:25 AM

Clint Strong on Les Paul
Ed Bickert, Ted Greene on Tele (the Tele faction wins in my book)

**PeteTW** · 02-20-2011, 10:36 AM

Ed Bickert is a great advert for Jazz tele that's a fact. I remember seeing a clip of Jim Mullen in the Morrisey Mullen era playing a tele and he's an amazing player...I had the incredible good fortune of seeing Jim up close a few weeks ago at my local Jazz club in Folkestone playing with the amazing Henry Lowther on Trumpet/flugelhorn.

As a huge Wes fan (who isn't???) it was great to see Jim playing with his thumb a la Wes. Jim totally rocked out, singing all his lines and was a great advert for playing standing up! Also he was playing a cheap Aria FA71 - fabulous sound...but it sound the same as his tele...because of his thumb and fingers of course.

Pete

**MarkRhodes** · 02-20-2011, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by 4thstuning

Clint Strong on Les Paul
Ed Bickert, Ted Greene on Tele (the Tele faction wins in my book)

You know, Bert Ligon's jazz studies site contains three transcriptions of Clint Strong solos: Ida Red, Stingaree (-both with Merle Haggard) and Stella (at a clinic)

Here's Clint giving a lesson on ii-V-I lines.

Here's his treatment of the progression "Right or Wrong" (-a Western Swing staple), just telling you the chords he plays, followed by a live solo over the changes. I like his tone in both settings.

**NSJ** · 02-20-2011, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Stackabones

Welcome aboard, Pete.

Jazz is music, not gear.

I'm sure someone will chime on other LP jazzers. I've had my eye on a tuxedo LP Custom.

yea, very true of course. I just learned what RO, R7, R9 mean on the Gear Page the other day. It was like Greek to me before

speaking of which, I noticed that the Outstanding guitarist Jack Zucker has, ahem, 16,000 Posts there. He's always buying (flipping?) axes at an unbelievably high rate

Weird to think that the pros too have some G.A.S. problems (I thank Jack for demoing an ES 339-- bought it on his strong recommendation).

Regarding Teles--think very strongly on putting a Charlie Christian pup in the neck--I recommend the one by Jason Lollar--it makes the individual strings very very clear and cleanses the muddiness from the guitar.

also do a search--there are a ton of Tele threads here--lots of people love them, including a user who goes by the initials BDLH.

**P4guitar** · 02-20-2011, 10:46 AM

If you've not seen or heard of late and great Ted Greene, prepare to have your lower jaw fall off. Many clips of him on YouTube. I love his teaching clips where he's improvising Bach style

Jim Mullen is another fave of mine. I never saw him with a Tele, only archtops, but as I live in Texas he's only available here via YouTube. His forte is great ideas and quotes - seemingly infinite quotes, I love that.

His thumb style is great too but he's using it to a totally different effect than Wes. Jim's thumb is used to sound like a flat pick, at least his lines sound that way to my ears.

**MarkRhodes** · 02-20-2011, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by 4thstuning

Jim Mullen is another fave of mine. I never saw him with a Tele, only archtops, but as I live in Texas he's only available here via YouTube. His forte is great ideas and quotes - seemingly infinite quotes, I love that.

Wow, I'd never heard that guy but I just checked out a few YouTube clips and he's great!

Here's a solo over the rhythm changes:

**P4guitar** · 02-20-2011, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by markerhodes

Wow, I'd never heard that guy but I just checked out a few YouTube clips and he's great!

Here's a solo over the rhythm changes:

Yep, that is classic!

**medblues** · 02-20-2011, 11:02 AM

Part of the reason may be ergonomic: Les Pauls are not sit down friendly as much and many jazzers like to play sitting down ? They are also felt to be optimized for long sustain which is not the typical jazzer's choice quality in a guitar.

**P4guitar** · 02-20-2011, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by medblues

Part of the reason may be ergonomic: Les Pauls are not sit down friendly as much and many jazzers like to play sitting down ? They are also felt to be optimized for long sustain which is not the typical jazzer's choice quality in a guitar.

Not to start any flame wars but while my Les Paul was my first "good" guitar, it ultimately ended up being my least favorite guitar by far and I traded it with cash for some kind of Ibanez semi-hollow clone which truly was an excellent guitar.

The LP was extremely unergonomic: HEAVY and definitely not a 'sit down' guitar. But John McLaughlin played one on "Inner Mounting Flame" so I had to have one too

**docbop** · 02-20-2011, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by 4thstuning

Not to start any flame wars but while my Les Paul was my first "good" guitar, it ultimately ended up being my least favorite guitar by far and I traded it with cash for some kind of Ibanez semi-hollow clone which truly was an excellent guitar.

The LP was extremely unergonomic: HEAVY and definitely not a 'sit down' guitar. But John McLaughlin played one on "Inner Mounting Flame" so I had to have one too

I'm with you and the Les Paul I had one and sold it a year later to me not comforable sitting or standing. But Pat Martino played Les Pauls for awhile and he got his classic dark sound.

I like Tele's in general and great jazz guitars.

**PeteTW** · 02-20-2011, 12:21 PM

Ah Pat Martino...didn't realise he'd played LPs...that's great I am totally full on Pat Martino at the moment!

On the Jim Mullen point when I went to his gig he was quotes everywhere it was like 'wasn't that x, y,z?' all evening. I went with my mate James Cornford (yes of the amplifiers). James is an amzing guitar player and close friend and regular NAMM room mate of Guthrie he was blown away by Jim and his quotes.

I filmed one of his solos...my arm ached it was so long but never got boring. I'll get round to downloading it.

Pete

**PeteTW** · 02-20-2011, 12:23 PM

The LP sure is heavy, but I like to play sranding any way so it's comfy to me. When I sit I usually play with a footstool a la classical position and LP is just fine. It's too small to play on the right knee though I agree.

**Peter C** · 02-20-2011, 02:15 PM

Well, I don't know whether I play Jazz, but I certainly shoot for a clean, full bodied Jazz sound on my Heritage H150 "Les Paul" strung with flatwounds, which reduce (unwanted) sustain quite a bit.

Jack Pearson gets great sounds out of a LP, I believe with light gauge strings. He has a feather-like touch:

Mine is fine for me sitting down. I sling the strap over my shoulder to take some of the weight off my thigh, when necessary.

Re. Pat Martino, if he were to swap back from his custom semi hollow to a LP, I wonder if we would notice a big difference in tone. I think probably not.

**customxke** · 02-21-2011, 12:35 PM

Mary Ford's husband, I can't remember his name, played some pretty good jazz on a Les Paul.

**Peter C** · 02-21-2011, 05:44 PM

Les Paul, for whom I have a logical respect as an innovator, is often cited in these "LP for Jazz?" discussions, but I never heard him using what would be widely considered a traditional Jazz guitar tone. Any recordings I may be missing?

**jeffstritt** · 02-21-2011, 07:54 PM

A lot of the tonal issues are involved in the set up as well. You would be suprised how big of a tonal difference string gague and material makes. Your LP might sound great with a set of Stainless Steel 9's on it for rock, but set it up with some flatwound 12's and you might be suprised. Also if you want to stay with roundwound strings, I'd reccomend pure nickel strings because they are a little darker.

**joe b** · 02-21-2011, 10:08 PM

I have an old-ish Luis Salinas CD where most if not all his electric guitar tracks are on a LP.

Also, I went to a jazz camp a couple years ago where one of the guitar instructors (Steve Erquiaga) used his LP the whole time.

I think the ergonomic issues are pretty significant for a LP, but if you already have one, how hard can it be to string up some flatwounds, select the neck pickup and maybe roll off the treble a tad?

OTOH, if you already have a good tele you are used to, look no further, unless you just get GAS too bad to resist buying something you don't really need.

**PeteTW** · 02-22-2011, 05:01 AM

GAS is the evil mistress! I'm getting a great tone out of both the LP and the Tele, but as my jazz skills improve there's a hollowbody hole in my guitar collection...it's definately a case of want rather than need

Thanks for all the helpful responses

**GuitaRoland** · 02-22-2011, 02:28 PM

A Telecaster or Les Paul would work just fine when it comes to the sound. Try a blind test on the guys that think they know best to hear what they say about the jazz sound.

But when it comes to the look I'm not so sure - some of the guitar players prefer the look before the sound. So a Telecaster or Les Paul for them - I don't know?

/R

**wolflen** · 02-22-2011, 04:43 PM

i play a les paul antique classic..i can get a "jazz" sound & feel from it without any effects needed..with just using tone & volumn controls on guitar & amp ... getting higher up the neck (15th fret and higher) smoothly takes some work..but can be done..

ted greene could get just about any tone from a tele...while he played "jazz" .. he could get any sounds he wanted with little effort.he could get amazing complex chords on the highest frets for a chord melody and the notes would sound crisp and full..there are "you tube" clips with him playing a standard tune and then morphing into a bach piece and back..

he was an amazing player and teacher

play well

wolf

**hurricanebob** · 02-23-2011, 02:42 AM

I had a Heritage 150 that I bought specifically for jazz before I could afford an archtop, and was quite satisfied with it.

So: will it work? Absolutely. If you like the tone/sound, there is no reason to change.

The ONLY reason to get a different guitar (and you probably will) is because you want a different sound. The reason you will get another, or different, guitar, is NOT because the LP is in any way inadequate--no. You'll get a different guitar because you're tastes will change, which is a polite way of saying that over time you'll get bored with what you have. Not because of the guitar--because of human nature. The guitar is fine. But, like most of us, you'll be wondering...what if I had X? Wouldn't that be great? Gee, if I only had X I could probably quit my day job and become a full-time musician, have beautiful women begging to jump my bones, win Grammies....yeah. All I need is that one guitar...which, conveniently, is always different than the one you own.

After all....I coulda beena contender!

So: play jazz, enjoy it, learn it, breathe it...and don't feel bad when you decide you need another guitar. Remember: paradise is always just around the corner!

**gavino** · 02-25-2011, 07:59 AM

hi, i have a gibson les paul custom and a late '80 washburn j6, both guitar sound amazing but... my les paul had a really 'muffled' (i don't mean a dark tone) tone so i have swapped off the neck pickup and replace it with a p90 phat cat, now my guitar sings! with half closed tone control i can have a really beautiful jazz sound. after this i've put the old gibson pickup on my washburn... now i'm happy. to be honest les paul is really heavy and uncomfortable when you play sitting, but hey anything has a price!