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I love my Fendere Stratocaster and want to play it in a jazz context, but the tone is not quite warm and full enough for my taste.
I'm looking at dirtying up the tone a little and maybe adding some delay/chorus a la Mike Stern.
Any thoughts?
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01-04-2011 01:29 PM
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Worth reading?
Fender Stratocaster for Jazz?
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The one suggestion I saw was using heavier flatwound strings. I currently have a 10 set (round wound) and have considered switching to 11's, but not flatwound. Part of the reason I want to play on my strat is because I love players who play jazz lines in a rock / blues idiom and vice versa.
So more specifically, what might be some suggested gear (pedals, preferably, as I am happy with my Blues Jr.) to improve my strat tone for a jazz setting?
Thanks!
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Well, "jazz tone" can mean a lot of things.
Here's me playing a reissue american strat, no mods, 10 guage strings (round G string) through a polytone minibrute - Trio clips
I go for a clean sound. Neither the guitar nor the string gauge was a choice based on tone, long story not worth getting into here.
Here's the thing though - to play a solid body (especially one with thinner strings) and get a warm sound, you have to play it a little lighter than you might play another guitar. Pluck it too hard and it starts sounding like a duck!
Edit: Sorry, I see my post is not exactly the input you were looking for. Still relevant, I hope.Last edited by JakeAcci; 01-04-2011 at 02:36 PM.
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When I first started playing jazz, I used an Epiphone Joe Pass, which is a good entry level archtop. It had a pretty nice sound - but playing it for the first time after being a strat guy for 2 years was not so fun. I just have so much more control and can get so much more expression out of my strat. And I like to bend the blues
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Well, what you want may not be the archetypical jazz tone (that would be a Gibson 175 with medium flatwounds played through a Gibson tube amp from the 1950s). But "dirty", "delay", chorus" - that makes me suggest trying out a multieffect unit like say the Boss ME-70 which is affordable and sounds pretty good. I do like the sound of my own amp better than the COSM amp simulations of the Boss ME-70, but the COSM section can be bypassed by turning a control. But actually, with COSM simulations, you can get away with feeding the output of the ME-70 directly into a mixer/PA system, thereby omitting your own amp. It will never sound like a Twin Reverb, but in a pinch .... The ME-70 is easy and intuitive to use - no multilevel menus, just "analog" controls like a stompbox.
Originally Posted by dyross
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Yeah, I'm definitely not going for the classic tone, or else I would play an archtop. More of a Mike Stern / John Abercrombie type thing. Originally Posted by oldane
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I've been trying to get a "jazz tone" with a couple of Strat style guitars. What's worked best is changing pickups - the Seymour Duncan Cool Rails have a fuller tone than regular single coil pickups and with a good amp, have a mellow sound I really like. I'm also going to try a Jason Lollar Charlie Christian style pickup is an old Tele style guitar I have.
And a good amp of course! A Roland MicroCube for practice, and very occasional gigs jacked into the PA system, works surprisingly well. I also just picked up a small Fender Champ that sounds good.
Pickups can be an important element in tonal production, and a fairly easy way to come closer to ideal tone, whatever guitar you use.
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I've tried to play jazz on my strat with big modifications 25 years ago.
I changed single coil pick ups for humbuckers.
I used jazz strings/12'/. Sound was OK.
After on year I sold it.
I like jazz guitar with big body.
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Two approaches
A
bluesey bendy singing/stinging vocal type sounds
smaller roundwound strings on a solid or semi solid guitar with low action
where when you dig in you get pop and slap with a long sustain
(with various amounts of squash from the tube amp)
and
Thick full type clean sounds and good intonation on complex chords
you get with thick flatwound strings on a hollow body with higher action
where when you dig in you get a louder more authoritative note production . and a short decay on the note like a stand up bass
(usually with a clean amp setting)
Its a trade-off between these extremes
Ed Bickert is an interesting one , down the middle , thick tape wound strings medium action on a tele with a humbucker ........
absolutely beautiful player and sound but he doesn't dig in much .......
Maybe try thicker strings and a high action (SRV bent with 13's)
and possibly block up the trem on your strat
have fun with all the experimentation
I ended up with a hollow body stuffed with foam
and thick tape-wounds and a high action ..... love it
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Hey there!
I have a nice strat which is super nice to play. However i mostly play 335 style guitars and archtops and just cant get along with the "thin" and "hard" sound of the instrument. I´m going to try to meat the thing up and am wondering what to do. I need one solid body guitar for some jobs i get and it would be nice to have it strung with 0.11s since my other guitars have 0.14 and i need one bending machine.
I´ve been playing some jazzmasters and have found them a bit more meaty but still with some single coil clarity so i´m even thinking about putting jazzmaster pickups in my strat.
What do you guys say, has anyone been able to make there strat sound fatter and warmer, what did you do?
Rexi
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You are headed in the right direction but before you go spend time and money on other pickups, try different neck-middle (parallel and series) combinations (I am presuming your strat has single coils and the middle one is reverse wound reverse polarity) and adjusting your pickup heights and rolling off your tone and volume on the guitar. Obviously, you could also add to the fatness by turning up the gain/volume on the amp, EQ'ing for more mids and bass and playing soft and turning the volume down further on your guitar.
Originally Posted by rexi
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I have no problem having a "jazz tone" on a Strat with its standard PUs. In fact I find the Strat neck PU is placed just right under the imaginary 24th fret string node, giving a nice and sweet sound Not at all thin and hard. I string it up with flatwounds. 11-50 work fine as well as heavier. I haven't tried thinner than 11. I set the tone on the amp (not much different from my archtops). I only roll back the tone control on the guitar about 25%. I like the sound to have some sparkle. In fact I have never been able to make that "roll-back-the-tone-control" to work for me, it only becomes dark and muddy with very little projection.
With the Strat, I also block the tremolo, but that's another matter which doesn't affect the tone as such.
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There are pickups that can give you a mellower, more "jazzy" sound than the regular Strat Pickups. I have a Washburn Strat copy that has a Seymour Duncan Cool Rails pickup in it that sounds very similar to a humbucker equipped guitar. Another suggestion would be Pete Biltoft's (Vintage Vibe Guitars, vintagevibeguitars.com) SP-90 Strat sized pickups. These don't sound quite like humbuckers, but they have a full sound a lot like a P-90 that works very well for jazz.
Last edited by robertm2000; 12-08-2011 at 08:42 AM.
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Chris Crocco in NYC plays a Strat with 14's!
You said you "need a solidbody for some jobs," so I'm guessing these are non-jazz gigs, so why "jazz it up?"
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I had a CBS era Strat for a few years during the 1970s, so it has been a while, and maybe my recollection of the tone I got is inaccurate...but using just the neck pickup, guitar tone knob at full treble, and playing though a small (for the time) bass amp, I got what I felt was a decent jazz tone from it. Originally Posted by rexi
Couldn't tell you if my life depended on it what model the bass amp was...It was a Yamaha and that's all I remember -- it was not a spectacular amp. The point however is that being voiced for bass it may have helped tame the "thin" and "hard" character you wrote about.
If you own (or have access to) a bass amp, you might try running the Strat through it and see if that "warms" it up a bit more to your liking.
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Strats are modular. I used to have another pickguard made up with humbuckers and some snap disconnects for the wiring. I also used some GraphTech saddles on the bridge to take some sheen off the high end frequencies. Originally Posted by oldane
But I find I can get a decent jazz sound with my present AV '62 RI Fender Strat just stock now. It takes paying attention to the amp settings, but modern amps seem to have plenty of leeway.
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Thanks for your comments guys!
"Chris Crocco in NYC plays a Strat with 14's!
You said you "need a solidbody for some jobs," so I'm guessing these are non-jazz gigs, so why "jazz it up?"
Thats a good comment and thats a problem with my post it´s not quite clear what i´m referring to
the title says jazz it up but not the post it self.
And the title for the post is probably not the best, i use solid body guitars for all sorts of gigs, blues, motown, funk and so on.. so im not exactly talking about a jazz tone, but a fuller, warmer sound then the stock strat. I´m not a big fan of flatwounds for any of my guitars and usually find rolling of the tone to make the sound muddy more than anything.
Maybe i just don´t know how to play a strat
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A lot can be cured by the type and guage of string you are using. One quick fix would be to switch to a pure nickel string. With 11s that should give you a MUCH warmer sound. My personal favorites for that are the Sadowsky strings, but you could also go with GHS Nickel Rockers and be like Eric Johnson. ;-)
Or you could just face the inevitable and buy a Telecaster. HAHA, just kidding of course.
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As can be seen from another thread, I started playing jazz on archtops and semi's and fell out of love with my Strat (as related on another thread on this forum); so I sold it. It was a lovely looking guitar, and I used it for blues and rock for ages; but then I started playing jazz full-time, and it sat in its case for 3 years. When it came out, I didn't love it any more, so it's gone to a someone who will give it the attention that it needs.
As for me...time to rationalise the "collection" downwards, and add one item that is choice, methinks.
But, no Strat for jazz with me, no matter what pickups.Last edited by mangotango; 12-09-2011 at 09:42 AM.
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My story exactly. I have been gasing for a strat but just cant get what i want out of the pickups. Originally Posted by mangotango
I have more luck with a tele neck pickup.
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Same here. I had really nice Strats and really cheapo Strats and experimented a lot with all of them. Alas, once I got used to playing archtops nothing I did to and with my Strats could satisfy me.
They're all gone now.
However, I'd own another Tele in a heartbeat. It was much easier to get a satisfactory big fat well balanced tone out of those with the stock single-coil neck pup.
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I might have it a little backwards but I have no issues sliding into jazziness with either of these guys.
I have tried maybe 5-10 strats in the past few months and is just ... ok.. lets say that I am not good enough a player to coax a sound that inspires me from these guitars
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I play a NASH strat with Thomastik 11 flatwounds, Lindy Fralin pickups, and get a great jazz sound- not at all "quacky' like strats tend to be.
I go back and forth between this guitar and a 335- they're both great.
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Strats can vary greatly in terms of sound due to would, hardware, pickup, construction etc. I have a Fender Custom shop Deluxe strat that I have used for several jazz gigs. It is a pretty dark sounding strat. The guitar is pretty heavy, alder body, indian rosewood finger board, Di Marzio Area pickups. I string it with 011's.
A strat with an ash body and maple board will be brighter, but I am sure that can work as well
If you don't feel comfortable using you strat for jazz, I would simply use a different guitar.Last edited by Soco; 12-09-2011 at 11:06 AM.
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