Who makes the best Gibson L-5 copy?

[LandWaterSky]

I don't know how up and down they've been over the years but yes, DMgolf, it seems to be a really good price for a PE 180 in this condition...today.

Lawson, I have a friend with a Tal Farlow that I want to get together with. It'll be good fun to see how they compare.

And, yes! A "Show Me Your Matsumoku L5ces Copy" thread sounds like a lot of fun!

For anyone who's interested, I found a picture of another PE180 that shows how the tailpiece should look when well cared for. I think I'm going to leave mine alone. I'm not a big fan of plastic surgery on older gals.

[lawson-stone]

I don't know how up and down they've been over the years but yes, DMgolf, it seems to be a really good price for a PE 180 in this condition...today.

Lawson, I have a friend with a Tal Farlow that I want to get together with. It'll be good fun to see how they compare.

And, yes! A "Show Me Your Matsumoku L5ces Copy" thread sounds like a lot of fun!

For anyone who's interested, I found a picture of another PE180 that shows how the tailpiece should look when well cared for. I think I'm going to leave mine alone. I'm not a big fan of plastic surgery on older gals.

JVGuitars is where I got my PE180. I really will be interested in how the PE180 compares/contrasts with the Tal. Everyone says the Tal Farlow has a really distinctive tone and I believe it, but still, a 17" laminate with PAF type pickups that is well made should come within the ball park unless the tal has some features or other things going on

Polishing the tailpiece likely would not do much harm. On mine, the pickguard had off-gassed or whatever they call it and tarnished the pickups, and I tried to clean that up a little. And all of them seem to get some loss of the clear coat in the cutaway area. But still, they are hard to beat. I think the PE180 and the Epiphone Elitist Broadway are the absolute best L5ces clones out there.

[wintermoon]

How do you know it's a prototype?
I've seen a couple others w no serial number.
I'd take some 0000 steel wool to the frets, especially where the offgassing pickguard was, you can see the corrosion on the upper frets.
Just make sure to cover the pickups so no shards get in there.
Have no idea what kind of bridge is on there.
Enjoy it and welcome to the PE180 club!

[LandWaterSky]

How do you know it's a prototype?
I've seen a couple others w no serial number.

Hi Wintermoon. That's a very good question. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

I have little knowledge of the lawsuit era Aria's. Most of what I've learned is from this forum.

The seller told me it was a prototype, and I gathered from my research that 'no serial number' designated it as a prototype.

Is there some determining mark or feature on the guitar I can check?

Oh, and thank you for your guidelines on cleaning up the frets. Great idea!

[wintermoon]

Really have no idea how to determine a Japanese prototype, but I've seen some w no serial number.

Just a suggestion, I'd experiment w a conventional tune o matic or ebony bridge and see what you think. Might make a big difference in sound.
I wonder what happened to the plating on the t.p., the gold on the tuners is decent, and that guitar looks barely played, not a mark on the top edge of the back of the headstock, a sure giveaway.
I'm not one that replates parts, but I'd be tempted on that t.p.

[2bornot2bop]

Having owned several Tal Farlow's, and a PE180, I'd have to say the Tal and the PE180 share little in common. The Tal is a much more refined guitar both in sound and build quality. Sure, in appearance, the PE180 resembles a Gibson L5 but that's where the resemblance ends. Is a PE180 a great playing guitar, heck yeah! I've owned a PE180, a PE190 (has the floating pickup), and an Ibanez 2460, another Gibson lookalike. My favorite was the Ibanez because of its Super 70's pickups. Congrats on acquiring a PE180. JV Guitars has been selling Japanese built guitars from the 70's-80's for many years. I think he told me his main gig was as a construction contractor.

[Groyniad]

great thread

Lawson's L5 video is terrific....

---------------

on the one hand we should all get on with learning the music and forget about the tool

but on the other, what got us into the music was - at least in part - the hugely distinctive and nuanced sound of....bill evans, barney kessel, wes, charlie parker etc.

the better you get at playing - the better you get at hearing the nuance in the sound your heroes make (lester, chet, jim hall, sonny, bill evans, billie holiday) - and the more you dig it

so a concern with the micro-features of the sound you're making is natural and important (not just a result of obsessing over details not even the most focused audience member notices...)

but - making a sound that is beautiful enough to engage our attention in such an intense way - is almost impossible. its the greatest achievement of a musician to produce such sounds consistently - very few of us manage it.

its pretty obvious that those who do manage it, don't manage it mainly because of the instrument they're using - but mainly because of how well they hear, and how good their technique is etc.

i move from one guitar to another - i think - largely because i keep hoping that what is frustrating my attempts to sound great are, to some significant extent, certain difficulties i'm having with the instrument (or amp) i'm using, and that these difficulties might not be present were i playing a different instrument.

this isn't (always) a crazy thing to hope - the fact that i don't get a very friendly response from my top e string, can serve to put a dampner on playing (and hearing/imagining too) - and if the bottom end is a bit boomy, you avoid it if you can, and this shapes what and how you play.

so our obsession over the differences between archtops is not irrational just because we can't hear the differences between Lawson's three instruments, or just because no-one in the audience notices such things.

our intense interest in the way wes or jim hall or jim raney sound is built into our interest in the music - so that's good

and the attempt to make great sounds is built into our interest in learning how to play the music

so it isn't all irrational gear-lust with no musical justification (just most of it is)

[LandWaterSky]

Hey 2bornot2bop, thanks for weighing in.

The discussion of the subtle (and not-so-subtle) differences between these guitars is a fascinating topic. Amazing how we all hear differently, too.

Fortunately for me, I'm not chasing any particular guitar or player's sound. My Heritage Eagle Classic, Heritage Mahogany Eagle, Gibson ES-175, Aria Pro II PE-180 and other high quality archtops offer me a wide range of sounds depending on how and what I'm playing. I love the subtle differences between all of them.

[lawson-stone]

Since this thread gets a lot of reference, I wanted to ask about the Ibanez 2460. Many prefer it as the "best" clone of the L5ces.

Is it the case, though, that it uses a 24.75" scale? Purists would want to know! So would folks who want the L5ces mojo but prefer the shorter scale.

[icr]

My version of the 'Looks like an L5' thing....