Lead sheet - transpose?

[jazzpazz]

Hey. Ive been struggling getting to the bottom of this, as I keep reading contradicting things. When I play from lead sheet (just to be clear, this is lead sheet for c instruments written for piano) Do I then transpose it an octave? I struggle to belive that I have to transpose my A4 on a guitar an octave down to A3. And then I can't put my melody on e and b string either, as it's how I play chord melody.

Hope you guys can clarify this for me

[Doublea A]

Hey. Ive been struggling getting to the bottom of this, as I keep reading contradicting things. When I play from lead sheet (just to be clear, this is lead sheet for c instruments written for piano) Do I then transpose it an octave? I struggle to belive that I have to transpose my A4 on a guitar an octave down to A3. And then I can't put my melody on e and b string either, as it's how I play chord melody.

Hope you guys can clarify this for me

It depends on the song. Not all songs need to be transposed.

It also depends on you. What do you want it sound like ? Where do you want to play it on the neck ? Does the sound in your head match the sound coming out of your guitar?

So I guess the answer is there is no definitive answer to your question.

Typically, I learn the song both ways so that I can be prepared to play it either way. Depending on the instruments that I am performing with I may want to play the melody higher or lower.

I hope that answers your question.

Double A Jazz - Jazz Guitar Workshop, Jazz Guitar Workshop


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[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Play it where you like it, unless you’re working with or for a leader who tells you otherwise. Each register has its own sound, and different songs may sound better in different octaves. Even the sound of a given guitar through a given amp may favor a higher or lower register.

I never liked the piano and organ sounds in the DX7 when it came out because I couldn’t find a register that sounded consistently right to me for most tunes. It sounded fine when others played it, but I just couldn’t reach equilibrium with it and never bought one. OTOH, every voice and patch on the Nord Stage keyboard has always felt and sounded great to me in every register.

[mr. beaumont]

If the goal is playing solo guitar/chord melody arrangements, transposing can be very useful in putting the melody into the "sweet spot" on the guitar.

Keep in mind if your goal is to play with others, you'll want to learn things in commonly played keys for the tune. Often this is the real book key, but listen to recordings, there are some outliers.

And of course, keep in mind that taking a tune through all keys occasionally is great practice.

[Jimmy Smith]

No, the register the melody is written in on the staff for a given lead sheet is not set in stone. You can play it in whatever octave you want and suits the guitar the best.

[John A.]

If you want to play the exact pitches that are scored in a non-guitar chart, then yes you do have to play an octave above where you would play the same notation on a guitar score. But that often puts you in the highest registers of the guitar which may be nearly unplayable or sound bad in context. So, as with most things on the guitar, you have figure where to play a note based on your own playability and aesthetic factors.

[Reg]

Yea... nowadays... almost all lead sheets are concert... by that I mean non transposing. Lead sheets are basically a simplified score... reflecting the actual sound implied.

Middle "C" or C4 is 5th fret on 3rd string on guitar.

Guitar "parts" are transposed up an octave... so parts would stay in treble clef....at least that's the way it use to be. For the last 30 to 40 years many times they're notated concert. (not transposed or written up an octave).

The difference... is what your playing... a part... from a composition or arrangement. Which generally is transposed or is it score... which is usually concert.

It's always been a mess....

[mr. beaumont]

You can play it in whatever octave you want and suits the guitar the best.

And occasionally swapping octaves sounds great too. Like start low, then go high for the bridge.

[Jimmy Smith]

^ I need to remember to do that.

[ragman1]

Hey. Ive been struggling getting to the bottom of this, as I keep reading contradicting things. When I play from lead sheet (just to be clear, this is lead sheet for c instruments written for piano) Do I then transpose it an octave? I struggle to belive that I have to transpose my A4 on a guitar an octave down to A3. And then I can't put my melody on e and b string either, as it's how I play chord melody.

Hope you guys can clarify this for me

Sounds like you're playing chord melody by yourself. In that case the melody probably sounds best on top. But if the tune goes up too high and sounds strained then you might want to start lower and put up with some muddiness. Up to you.

Transposing the whole thing to a different, more accessible key is also an option.

(If you're not by yourself then it's what sounds best in context. You can always ask the others, of course).

[mr. beaumont]

Another thing to consider is the tone you are using...I find that if I'm doing the "solo guitar" thing, the tone I use for playing with someone else might not work, too muddy in the low register. But brightening things up, or playing an acoustic or nylon string allows me to use that lower register a bit more.

[John A.]

That brings up another question I have. Do guitars have any better or worse ranges? Any part of the guitar where it sounds better or worse? Like further down the neck? Or is it more like a piano where all notes the same quality?

In general, heavy wound strings intonate worse on the upper frets, and on some guitars notes are more susceptible to fretting out there more too; open strings sound different from fretted strings. Other than that it’s all about the same all over fingerboard timbre-wise.

By I play clarinet and sax too. On those there are notes you want to avoid due to design of the instrument making It worse. Ive noticed that melodies sounds better on guitar on the lower strings. But takes out the option of having chords under the melody

I have a feeling most people prefer melodies on strings 1-4. Guitar’s don’t have the problem of some fingerings being out of tune that woodwinds do.

[Reg]

I see guys. So there's no definite answer. Transposing it up and down an octave dosent really matter in terms of the song

That brings up another question I have. Do guitars have any better or worse ranges? Any part of the guitar where it sounds better or worse? Like further down the neck? Or is it more like a piano where all notes the same quality?

I play clarinet and sax too. On those there are notes you want to avoid due to design of the instrument making It worse. Ive noticed that melodies sounds better on guitar on the lower strings. But takes out the option of having chords under the melody

Yes there are definite answers...You just need to define the question. Your D-4 on the guitar is 2nd string 3rd fret or 3rd string 7th fret. Same D-4 on lead sheet.... the "D" above middle "C" or space below the staff.

The traditional guitar... classical... is a transposing instrument when reading notation from a Guitar Part.. That D-4 would be notated D-5 or up an octave. This is for a guitar "Part" notation which would be from a "concert" score....

Where the melody is played is determined by context. By that I mean... solo guitar. a small combo or ensemble
or larger ensemble.

How the part is being used.... with a melody... lower range guitar sounds great when doubled with Tenor.

You sound like your deciding on.... how to arrange the melody to work in a Musical setting, context. There are standard common practice applications. Get an arranging guide from any contemporary music school or working arranger etc.... there will be lots of examples of possibilities and usually recorded examples.


The Guitars is much thinner sounding than Piano in same octave. Piano's have 3 string, (2 in lower range)....

Guitars tend to sound best from 3rd fret up to 12th fret.

I also play reeds... no crossover or mechanical problems beside different choices of where to play notes.

[rpjazzguitar]

Middle C on a piano is one ledger line below the staff.

On guitar, that same note is on the B string, first fret.

But, guitar books teach students to read the note one ledger line below the staff as the third fret on the A string.

I have played arrangements with the arranger in the band - who is aware how guitar music is usually written and writes accordingly. Meaning, if he wants the C note on the A string at the third fret, he writes it one ledger line below the staff.

But, I'm not clear that all arrangers do that. Based on how often I see unplayable chords on guitar charts, I'd assume that some don't.

So, what do you do?

1. It's a very useful skill to be able to play anything you read or hear in any octave. So, it's a good idea to practice reading lines all over the neck in every possible octave.

2. You then can pick which octave you want to play things in. That depends on multiple aspects of the musical situation. They all come down to what sounds good in the situation.

3. One thing that might not be obvious is that how you process the guitar signal can make a difference. For example playing way up the neck may seem too high, but if you use a harmonizer to add octave-down, it may work better. Similarly, if you're playing down the neck and the notes seem too low, you might add treble or pick near the bridge to compensate.