Dominant Chords in Maj/min Progressions

[lawnmice]

Based on my current understanding of chords fitting in keys, in a major key you have the I, ii, iii, VI, V, vi, and vii(o) while in a minor key you would have i, ii(o), III, iv, v, VI and VII available diatonically.

I know that you can substitute some chords like sus2 and sus4 chords into certain slots if they fit into the key or you can do things like replace the diminished chord with a m7b5 chord to alter the sound.

Do dominant chords work the same way as those other examples where you can just substitute them anywhere they fit? Is there a certain mental logic that helps when deciding whether it’s the right time to bust out a dominant chord or not?

I’ve been using the ebook on this forum and it’s just something I’ve been curious about while studying Autumn Leaves

[Christian Miller]

I could give a theoretical answer… but tbh one of the best things is to take a close look at the chords to a lot of standards. Not things like jazz compositions, but rather the popular vocal songs from the early to mid 20th century that are played by jazz musicians. Autumn leaves is an example. You can see how dominant chords are typically used.

The most common use of non diatonic dom 7’s is to set up a chord a fourth higher. Making the previous major or minor chord a dominant seventh (by altering the key) adds more ‘push.’ This is called a ‘secondary dominant.’

See also ‘leading tone diminished seventh.’

[Christian Miller]

in jazz you can also precede any chord by a dominant a semitone higher - tritone sub of vanilla secondary dominants.

In terms of how one decides to use a dominant chord, here’s some thoughts.

For the composer/reharmonist
- does the chord fit the melody?
- does it enhance the mood of the song or detract from it? (Changes can get ‘fussy.’)

If you are soloing, you don’t need to worry about the melody.

You can always add in dissonant chords before target chords in comps and lines for a more colourful approach. For example

Cm7 | F7 | Bb | Eb
could become
Cm7 / C7 Gb7 | F7 / B7 / | Bb Bb7 | Eb Bb7 | Am7b5

etc

You can even precede dominants with more dominants in this way

Cm7 Ab7 G7 Gb7 | F7 etc

but I’d you do it all the time, it’s obviously too much!

Swapping out vanilla chords for altered dominants is a good way of getting a more ‘outside’ sound,
C7alt | F7alt | B7alt etc

but most of us start by playing the vanilla changes as a starting point.

[lawnmice]

You can always add in dissonant chords before target chords in comps and lines for a more colourful approach. For example

Cm7 | F7 | Bb | Eb
could become
Cm7 / C7 Gb7 | F7 / B7 / | Bb Bb7 | Eb Bb7 | Am7b5

Playing along to these and comparing the two progressions really helped me internalize your advice! Thank you! Swapping between using F7 and B7 in the second progression was interesting as well.

As far as what you were saying about the most common application involving 4ths… would that be like doing | Em7 A7 | Dm7 G7 | ?

[Christian Miller]

Playing along to these and comparing the two progressions really helped me internalize your advice! Thank you! Swapping between using F7 and B7 in the second progression was interesting as well.

As far as what you were saying about the most common application involving 4ths… would that be like doing | Em7 A7 | Dm7 G7 | ?

exactly

as I say, look at tunes, you’ll see a million examples

[rpjazzguitar]

There are books (which I can't think of at the moment) which have the vanilla changes to songs, above which, are commonly used jazzy chord substitutions.

Hopefully, someone will chime in and name such a book or similar source material.

You still may be faced with figuring out some theory so that you can apply the ideas in other songs, but it will be worthwhile to see what is commonly done.

[Reg]

I've posted on this subjects many times over the years.... here is a free book by Stuart Smith,
Jazz Theory.... it's simple and clear. Here's the link
Stuart Smith

If you need more I'll help... I understand have composed and performed using most of this material for years.
Here's the Table of Contents...

7
Table of Contents
Acknowledgments................................... .................................................. .......................... 3
Preface........................................... .................................................. .................................... 5
I. The Structure of Jazz .................................................. .................................................. ... 9
Rhythmic Structure .................................................. .................................................. ..... 9
Jazz Rhythmic Interpretation .................................................. ...................................... 10
Form.............................................. .................................................. .............................. 11
AABA .................................................. .................................................. ................... 11
ABAC .................................................. .................................................. ................... 12
Through-Composed .................................................. ................................................ 12
Ternary........................................... .................................................. ......................... 12
The Role of Song Forms in Jazz.............................................. ..................................... 13
II. The Harmonic Vocabulary of Jazz.............................................. ................................. 15
Notation .................................................. .................................................. .................... 15
Notational Conventions .................................................. .......................................... 15
Standard Chord Notation .................................................. ........................................ 15
Basic Chord Types............................................. .................................................. ......... 18
An Iinterlude on Shorthand and Anomalous Notations......................................... ... 19
Tensions .................................................. .................................................. .................... 19
Suspensions....................................... .................................................. .......................... 21
Implied Countermelodies................................... .................................................. ......... 21
Roman Numeral Chord Notation.......................................... ........................................ 22
III. Jazz Melody .................................................. .................................................. ............ 25
IV. Developing a Bass Line .................................................. ............................................ 27
V. Standard Chord Progressions: Blues and “Rhythm”...................................... .............. 29
A Jazz Approach to Blues............................................. ................................................ 29
Traditional/Rock Approach to Blues .................................................. .......................... 30
“Rhythm” Changes .................................................. .................................................. ... 32
VI. Chord Voicings.......................................... .................................................. ............... 35
Solo Keyboard Voicing .................................................. .............................................. 35
Chord Voicing Styles............................................ .................................................. ...... 36
Close Position .................................................. .................................................. ....... 36
“Shells” .................................................. .................................................. ................. 37
“Axis” .................................................. .................................................. ................... 37
“Rootless” Chords............................................ .................................................. ....... 38
VII. Voice Leading .................................................. .................................................. ....... 41
Standard Voice Leading Techniques .................................................. .......................... 42
Circle of Fifths Root Motion............................................ ......................................... 42
Root Motion by Second .................................................. .......................................... 43
Root Motion by Third .................................................. ............................................. 43
Voice Leading with Rootless Chords .................................................. ......................... 43
Parallel Voice Leading Styles............................................ ........................................... 44
The Basic Close Position Style .................................................. ............................... 45
The Widened Line: Drop 2 and Drop 3 .................................................. .................. 46
Locked-Hands .................................................. .................................................. ....... 46
Scoring for Small Jazz Ensembles......................................... ....................................... 47



8
Instrument Ranges .................................................. .................................................. 47
Instrumental Combinations...................................... ................................................. 49
VIII. Functional Harmony in Jazz .................................................. .................................. 51
Theory of Chord Progressions .................................................. .................................... 51
Root Motion .................................................. .................................................. .......... 51
The Diatonic (In-Key) Circle of Fifths .................................................. ................... 51
The Chromatic Circle of Fifths .................................................. ............................... 52
Strong/Weak Alternation of Chords .................................................. ........................... 53
Tensions and Chord Function .................................................. ..................................... 57
Non-Tonic Beginnings........................................ .................................................. ........ 58
Turnarounds .................................................. .................................................. .............. 58
Tritone Substitution:ëIIÏSubstituted forVÏ.................................................. ............... 59
Voice Leading Chords .................................................. ................................................ 59
The Diminished- and Half-Diminished Seventh Chords............................................ .. 61
The Diminished-Seventh Chord .................................................. ............................. 61
The Diminished Seventh as a Connecting Chord .................................................. ... 62
The Diminished Seventh as an “Incomplete” Dominant .......................................... 63
The Half-Diminished Seventh Chord .................................................. ..................... 63
The Half-Diminished Seventh as a Connecting Chord............................................. 64
The Half-Diminished Seventh as an Incomplete Dominant Ninth ........................... 64
Secondary Functions and Tonicization...................................... ................................... 65
Borrowed Chords (Modal Interchange)...................................... .................................. 66
Modulation........................................ .................................................. .......................... 67
Pivot Chord Modulation .................................................. ......................................... 67
Common Tone Modulation........................................ ............................................... 68
Direct Modulation........................................ .................................................. ........... 68
Miscellaneous Harmonic Techniques........................................ ................................... 69
Tonic-by-Assertion .................................................. ................................................. 69
Pedal Point .................................................. .................................................. ............ 70
Upper Structure Triads............................................ .................................................. 70
Polychords and Polytonality .................................................. ................................... 71
IX. Chord-Scale Theory............................................ .................................................. ...... 73
A Simplified Approach To Chord-Scale Theory............................................ .............. 73
The “Diminished” Scale .................................................. ............................................. 75
Chords With Alterations And/Or Tensions: .................................................. ............... 76
Interlude On The Minor Mode.............................................. ........................................ 77
“Outside” Playing .................................................. .................................................. ..... 78
Treatment Of “Non-Chord” Tones .................................................. ............................. 79
X. Other Systems .................................................. .................................................. .......... 81
Modal Jazz .................................................. .................................................. ................ 81
Free Jazz .................................................. .................................................. ................... 81
Tonal Systems In Rock .................................................. ............................................... 82
Appendix A: Jazz Chord Dictionary........................................ ......................................... 83
Appendix B: Rootless Chord Dictionary .................................................. ........................ 85
Appendix C: Using Sibelius® .................................................. ........................................ 87
Sibelius Basics .................................................. .................................................. .......... 88

[st.bede]

I have a question. I might not be understanding the tremonolgy correctly but in my mind: Foggy Day: Fmaj7 - Ab7 - Gmin7 - C7. So A is a secondary dom of ii… why is it Ab?

(Back in 1998 I did take a year of Jazz Theory in college. Then I had an injury and had to stop playing for a long time. I have almost completely forgotten my jazz thoery. My memory is telling me something about being allowed to flat things. When and what ? IDK … also we did endless boxes, with 4 chords in them and some arrows… but I have no memory of what or where those chords came from).

[pamosmusic]

I have a question. I might not be understanding the tremonolgy correctly but in my mind: Foggy Day: Fmaj7 - Ab7 - Gmin7 - C7. So A is a secondary dom of ii… why is it Ab?

(Back in 1998 I did take a year of Jazz Theory in college. Then I had an injury and had to stop playing for a long time. I have almost completely forgotten my jazz thoery. My memory is telling me something about being allowed to flat things. When and what ? IDK … also we did endless boxes, with 4 chords in them and some arrows… but I have no memory of what or where those chords came from).

A secondary dominant is a dominant chord that is intended to resolve to something other than the tonic.

So F6 - D7 - Gm7 - C7

The D7 resolves to the Gm. It’s a dominant chord a fifth above the target chord, so it works the same way as a V7 going to a I chord.

In jazz (and actually classical music too, though by another name) we commonly substitute a V chord for the dominant chord a tritone away, which is the bII, or the chord a half step above the target chord.

The reason for this is because the big important chord tones in the V chord are the third and seventh because they resolve to the root and third of the target chord. In the case of a D7 chord that’s F# and C, which will resolve to the G and B (or Bb) of a G major (or minor) chord. If you take the chord a tritone away from D7, you get Ab7. The third and seventh are C and Gb (or F#). So they have the same important guide tones and resolve equally well to the same target chords. So your chord progression becomes F6 - Ab7 - Gm7 - C7.

[pamosmusic]

A lot of the times playing these things in Freddie Greene style shell voicings and really tracking the D and G strings with your eyes can tell you most of what you need to know about how these progressions work.

[Christian Miller]

In jazz (and actually classical music too, though by another name) we commonly substitute a V chord for the dominant chord a tritone away, which is the bII, or the chord a half step above the target chord.

must…. resssisssst…. unhelpful for …. the thread….. nooo, christian… arghhhhh

OP please ignore this it’s completely irrelevant to your question and will only serve to confuse.

It’s complicated… while they have some commonalities and I know some theorists have drawn this like (based the wikipedia article on the subject haha) I don’t really like to relate the classical equivalents to jazz tritone subs just because in jazz we use them so freely while in gallant/classical harmony their use is quite specific (and usually as a predominant chord in modern classical terminology). whereas in jazz we can use them however we like.

Also in counterpoint/thorough-bass those chords are very easily and naturally understood as chromatic alterations of diatonic 6 3 chords (hence the names). The harmony of this era is very specific of course, these chords tend to be prepared and resolved in a very specific way.

From the POV of jazz theory these chords could be considered tritone subs, although they don’t always resolve superficially in the expected way (but jazz theory doesn’t really have the concept of the cadential 6 4 which can make progressions seems stranger than they are.)

Modern music theory talks about inversion but when they originated (c18) these chords were always used ‘in inversion’ (in practice the composers weren’t thinking this way, another screed). Otoh this shifted during the c19 as root/fundamental bass theory became more widely adopted.

the best example I can think of of what we jazzers might call a ‘tritone sub’ going to I is the last two chords from the theme from Brahms 4th symphony finale - the use of the “F7#11” chord going to E (the tonic). On paper these notes could suggest a half cadence in Am, but it SOUNDS like the progression is in Em with a tierce de Picardy (hence the key sig). I’m sure there are others and love to hear if you know any.


(ooh look at you Johann reclaiming the Phrygian cadence from its post-baroque function as a minor half-cadence… gateway into modern modalism….)

Anyway that was all completely irrelevant. Sorry.

[ragman1]

Foggy Day: Fmaj7 - Ab7 - Gmin7 - C7. So A is a secondary dom of ii… why is it Ab?

Well, first, this isn't a textbook example, it's from a standard song. It's also a song that has a lot of variations.

The textbook explanation is pretty simple, that the chords were first written as F - Dm - Gm - C7. The Dm became D7, a secondary dominant, and then tritoned to become Ab7.

But we don't know what was in Gershwin's mind when he wrote it. We don't know which he wrote first, the melody or the harmony. We don't know if he wrote Dm first, or if is it was written as D7 first (as the V of Gm), or if it was written as Ab7 first. Who knows?

The song first appeared in a 1937 film sung by Fred Astaire. He does quite a long intro verse and then, from the clip, I think it's F - Ab7 - Gm - C7. See what you think.

The other thing is that there's the next line in the song. That goes F - Db7 - G7 - C7. Now, that's interesting! The G7 is a secondary dominant of Gm, of course, but where does that Db7 come from? It could be a tritone of G7 but that wouldn't suit the melody... oh, dear.

That question's more difficult than the first one. There are other variations to these chords. A RB version has

FM7 - Am7b5/D7b9 - Gm7 - C7
F6 - Dm7b5 - G7 - Gm7/C7

Another one has

FM7 - D7#5b9 - Gm7 - C7
F6 - D7#11b9 - G13 - C9

Another is

FM7 - Am7b5/Ab7 - Gm7 - C7
F6 - Dm7b5/G7b9 - Gm7 - C7

And yet another one (lord help us) has

FM7 - F#o - Gm7 - C7

And so on.

Anyway, sorry to muddy the waters, I'm sure all you wanted was a simple answer. But I suspect for the real one we'd have to ask George, now unfortunately absent.

But here's the film clip. Enjoy

[garybaldy]

must…. resssisssst…. unhelpful for …. the thread….. nooo, christian… arghhhhh

OP please ignore this it’s completely irrelevant to your question and will only serve to confuse.

It’s complicated… while they have some commonalities and I know some theorists have drawn this like (based the wikipedia article on the subject haha) I don’t really like to relate the classical equivalents to jazz tritone subs just because in jazz we use them so freely while in gallant/classical harmony their use is quite specific (and usually as a predominant chord in modern classical terminology). whereas in jazz we can use them however we like.

Also in counterpoint/thorough-bass those chords are very easily and naturally understood as chromatic alterations of diatonic 6 3 chords (hence the names). The harmony of this era is very specific of course, these chords tend to be prepared and resolved in a very specific way.

From the POV of jazz theory these chords could be considered tritone subs, although they don’t always resolve superficially in the expected way (but jazz theory doesn’t really have the concept of the cadential 6 4 which can make progressions seems stranger than they are.)

Modern music theory talks about inversion but when they originated (c18) these chords were always used ‘in inversion’ (in practice the composers weren’t thinking this way, another screed). Otoh this shifted during the c19 as root/fundamental bass theory became more widely adopted.

the best example I can think of of what we jazzers might call a ‘tritone sub’ going to I is the last two chords from the theme from Brahms 4th symphony finale - the use of the “F7#11” chord going to E (the tonic). On paper these notes could suggest a half cadence in Am, but it SOUNDS like the progression is in Em with a tierce de Picardy (hence the key sig). I’m sure there are others and love to hear if you know any.


(ooh look at you Johann reclaiming the Phrygian cadence from its post-baroque function as a minor half-cadence… gateway into modern modalism….)

Anyway that was all completely irrelevant. Sorry.

B7b5?

[Christian Miller]

B7b5?

Eh?

[Christian Miller]

Well, first, this isn't a textbook example, it's from a standard song. It's also a song that has a lot of variations.

The textbook explanation is pretty simple, that the chords were first written as either F - Dm - Gm - C7. The Dm became D7, a secondary dominant, and then tritoned to become Ab7.

But we don't know what was in Gershwin's mind when he wrote it. We don't know which he wrote first, the melody or the harmony. We don't know if he wrote Dm first, or if is it was written as D7 first (as the V of Gm), or if it was written as Ab7 first. Who knows?

The song first appeared in a 1937 film sung by Fred Astaire. He does quite a long intro verse and then, from the clip, I think it's F - Ab7 - Gm - C7. See what you think.

The other thing is that there's the next line in the song. That goes F - Db7 - G7 - C7. Now, that's interesting! The G7 is a secondary dominant of Gm, of course, but where does that Db7 come from? It could be a tritone of G7 but that wouldn't suit the melody... oh, dear.

That question's more difficult than the first one. There are other variations to these chords. A RB version has

FM7 - Am7b5/D7b9 - Gm7 - C7
F6 - Dm7b5 - G7 - Gm7/C7

Another one has

FM7 - D7#5b9 - Gm7 - C7
F6 - D7#11b9 - G13 - C9

Another is

FM7 - Am7b5/Ab7 - Gm7 - C7
F6 - Dm7b5/G7b9 - Gm7 - C7

And so on.

Anyway, sorry to muddy the waters, I'm sure all you wanted was a simple answer. But I suspect for the real one we'd have to ask George, now unfortunately absent.

But here's the film clip. Enjoy

I fully support using tritone as a verb

[ragman1]

Thank you, a man of discernment

[garybaldy]

Eh?

Penultimate bar!!
(ps, thought Eh was a chord I hadn't come across before!)

[ragman1]

P.S. How would you explain the Db7? Other than he just put it in because he wanted to?

[pamosmusic]

must…. resssisssst…. unhelpful for …. the thread….. nooo, christian… arghhhhh

Saw this coming a mile away

[ragman1]

(ps, thought Eh was a chord I hadn't come across before! )

:-)

[princeplanet]

...ps, thought Eh was a chord I hadn't come across before!...

Eh, closely followed by Meh ... sums up my chordal playing...

[Christian Miller]

Penultimate bar!!
(ps, thought Eh was a chord I hadn't come across before!)

Well we’d call it an F7#11, a modern classical theorist would call it a French Sixth. The reason is it has a D# and F each going to an E so this comes from the enharmonic spelling of the chord, an augmented sixth interval not a minor seventh. The A note completes the basic chord and the addition of the B make it ‘French’ (for some unknown reason.)

(jazz musicians of course neither understand or respect enharmony.)

Although the melody looks like a bassline (and Brahms does indeed use it as this a little later) inverting the counterpoint and putting in a B7b5 there does not sound very Brahmsian haha.

[Christian Miller]

The scale of the French Sixth is quite interesting …

[Christian Miller]

Saw this coming a mile away

Youre a bad man

[pamosmusic]

(jazz musicians of course neither understand or respect enharmony.)

Bro. Harsh.