Robert Conti's jazz guitar method (no scales, no modes)

[snailspace]

Absolutely! Entertainment,pleasure and a feeling if playing music rather than serving a punishment sentence

That's it. Instead of feeling guilt over not doing what I should (inversion exercises, ii-V-I drills in all 12 keys, triad arpeggios in every position, etc.), missing my Conti time leads me to feel disappointment -- because I could have been doing something I find far more enjoyable, satisfying, and productive than my old way of practicing.

Naturally, nothing is a perfect fit for everyone, but this is a good fit for me. If other people enjoy their practice time the way I'm now enjoying mine, I'm happy for them.

[snailspace]

. . . as a matter of fact, if there's anyone out there who would be interested in a Ticket To Improv, Volume One study group, I'm game.

[MarkRhodes]

. . . as a matter of fact, if there's anyone out there who would be interested in a Ticket To Improv, Volume One study group, I'm game.

O my! I'm in three study groups right now (--Herb Ellis, Jimmy Raney, Frank Vignola) and that may be my limit.
Though if a TTI Vol 1 group started I could keep up because I have played some of those solos already. ;o)

[snailspace]

O my! I'm in three study groups right now (--Herb Ellis, Jimmy Raney, Frank Vignola) and that may be my limit.
Though if a TTI Vol 1 group started I could keep up because I have played some of those solos already. ;o)

You've got a lot going on, that's for sure. I hope you and all who are in your groups are doing well. The idea of a TTI group appeals to me because of the Bonus Project that follows the first three lessons. We'd all be playing the same thing for the initial tunes, but it might be cool to see what each person could come up with over the last one.

I'm not terribly optimistic about getting a group going, though. My guess is that most of the Conti fans here have already moved beyond that DVD, and are on to other things.

[losaltosjoe]

. . . as a matter of fact, if there's anyone out there who would be interested in a Ticket To Improv, Volume One study group, I'm game.

Hi Snailspace,

I'm keeping the TTI/V1 study group in mind for when I circle back to Conti's TTI series. Right now, I'm trying to get through his Intros & Endings. It might be fun to work through it with other players. I need to get out more...

Cheers, Joe

[snailspace]

Hi Snailspace,

I'm keeping the TTI/V1 study group in mind for when I circle back to Conti's TTI series. Right now, I'm trying to get through his Intros & Endings. It might be fun to work through it with other players. I need to get out more...

Cheers, Joe

Hi, Joe!

Intros, Endings, and Turnarounds is next book I'll get. How do you like it so far?

Once I finish the TTI series, I hope to get into The Jazz Lines and The Comping Expo.

Do you have any of the Play Pro Chord Melody Today! DVDs? I'm using "Since I Fell For You" as a companion piece to The Chord Melody Assembly Line, and -- even though it takes me some time to make even a small section flow -- it sure is fun.

[MarkRhodes]

I'm not terribly optimistic about getting a group going, though. My guess is that most of the Conti fans here have already moved beyond that DVD, and are on to other things.

Well, who have moved beyond it might welcome a refresher course. ;o)

[lickerz101]

I'm really enjoying Conti's dvds and I'm learning a lot from it. Just finished learning all the solos from Ticket to Improv vol.1-4 and now I'm moving to his advance improv dvds

Sent from my vivo 1601 using Tapatalk

[snailspace]

I'm really enjoying Conti's dvds and I'm learning a lot from it. Just finished learning all the solos from Ticket to Improv vol.1-4 and now I'm moving to his advance improv dvds

Sent from my vivo 1601 using Tapatalk

Have fun -- let us know how it goes!

[snailspace]

I recently posted this in the Chord Melody section, but it seems to fit here, too. Hope it's not against the rules to put the same post in two places.

As someone who never had much success in my attempts at playing tunes in this style, I have to say Robert Conti's materials have been a game-changer for me. Although I had read much about the theory (i.e., "keep the melody on the top two strings," "practice smooth voice-leading," and all the rest), it was always a struggle to keep it all in mind, and to put it all into use. Consequently, I'd use what I knew to try to arrange a tune, but progress was always so painstaking and frustrating that I'd eventually give up before getting too far into a tune -- even a simple one.

I didn't think I'd ever learn.

Conti changed that for me. With his book The Chord Melody Assembly Line, which I'm using in tandem with his Play Pro Chord Melody Today! arrangement of "Since I Fell For You," the results have been immediate and rewarding. Almost right away, Conti had me beginning to play a beautifully harmonized rendition of a familiar tune, using many voicings I already knew, with others picked up in the context of the tune itself . . . I was learning music while making music. Conti's lesson includes many of what he calls "off the sheet tips" -- additional variations and subtleties that are not included in the pdf that is part of the DVD. These devices -- bass note movement, slurs, accent notes, arpeggiation, and other embellishments -- make the tune come to life, and provide the student with alternate ways to play the piece (and which can be used on subsequent tunes, as well).

Using the DVD as a companion piece to the Assembly Line book works well for me, because it gives me a chance (via the book) to learn a chord voicing for each melody note, and how to use these chords to harmonize a simple melody. The book shows the method, while the DVD shows the method in action on a well-known tune.

I've read where people have complained that Conti's method is unrealistic, because "you won't ever play a tune with a chord for each melody note", and that "he only shows you one way to play it." These criticisms miss the point, in my view. By showing you how to play a chord for each melody note, Conti equips you to play a chord for any melody note you choose. As the player, you can choose how sparse or dense you want a given part of the piece to be, because he doesn't hold back on giving you information.

It used to be that when I heard a chord melody arrangement, I'd think, "I'd like to be able to play that." Now, after working with these two Conti products, I hear a tune I like -- standards, Beatles, old hymns, everything -- and I look forward, for the first time in my life, to soon being able to create my own versions of the songs I love . . . because Conti is showing me how.

After years of standing still, I'm now taking steps -- small ones, every day -- but at least I'm facing the right direction . . . and moving forward.
The Chord Melody Assembly Line | RobertConti.com
Product Category: Play Pro Chord Melody Today | RobertConti.com

[MikeS]

I can relate to this. I wanted to learn chord melody. I did a lot of research on the net. I learned I would have to learn hundreds of chords, practice real hard and in ten years I may be able to play chord melody. I was really frustrated until I stumbled onto Robert Conti's site. I purchased The Chord Assembly Line and The Formula, and found chord melody was within reach and it wasn't going to take a life time.

The Chord Assembly Line course gave me a method for putting a chord under every note and The Formula gave me a lot of ways to arrange some of my favorite songs. With some practice I was on my way. For me Robert Conti broke the code to the facinating world of chord melody.

[mr. beaumont]

B.S.

All you need to know is drop 2''s on string sets 1-4, 5-2, and drop 3''s on 6+4-2.

Then adjust to put whatever melody note you need on top.

Or learn to play like Conti...hmmm...let me look for one of his CD's...oh, don't have any...

[snailspace]

B.S.

All you need to know is drop 2''s on string sets 1-4, 5-2, and drop 3''s on 6+4-2.

Then adjust to put whatever melody note you need on top.

Or learn to play like Conti...hmmm...let me look for one of his CD's...oh, don't have any...

Why can't I do it this way? I like it, and it works for me. Just because you don't like someone's music doesn't mean other people can't, and just because you learned one way doesn't mean another way is without merit.

[matt.guitarteacher]

I don't really play CM in a style anything like Conti and don't necessarily strive to, but I found his assembly line book to be one of the most valuable tools I ever used in my study of the instrument. Seems pretty basic now, but it was just what I needed at the time.

[mr. beaumont]

Why can't I do it this way? I like it, and it works for me. Just because you don't like someone's music doesn't mean other people can't, and just because you learned one way doesn't mean another way is without merit.

My comment was regarding that you need 100 chords to play "chord melody." Nobody teaches that.

As for Conti's playing, if you dig it, cool.

[snailspace]

My comment was regarding that you need 100 chords to play "chord melody." Nobody teaches that.

As for Conti's playing, if you dig it, cool.

No, you bagged on the method by calling it B.S., then made a snarky comment about how you were too cool to own any Conti CDs.

When it comes to commenting on Conti's teaching, there are usually three different categories of commentators:

1. People who use Conti's stuff, and love it.
2. People who use Conti's stuff, and like it.
3. People who have never used Conti's stuff, but don't think much of it, because they learned how to play without it.

Folks who dismiss Conti's teaching would never think of throwing shade at things like the Mickey Baker book, the Herb Ellis books, or the Joe Pass Jazz Lines DVD, which are all the same thing -- learning lines, then learning how to apply and re-apply them. There's more to jazz than this, of course, but that doesn't mean this isn't part of jazz.

And those "100 chords"? That's inaccurate. Conti shows you a bunch of chords, but repeatedly says you don't have to use all of them -- and that he doesn't, either. He says that he shows them all so you can choose the ones you want, harmonize any note, and make the arrangement as dense or as sparse as you want.

The grips in Conti's books are pretty similar to those in Joe Pass Guitar Chords, but nobody crows on Joe. I guess Joe gets a pass because he's Joe Pass.

[NSJ]

No, you bagged on the method by calling it B.S., then made a snarky comment about how you were too cool to own any Conti CDs.

When it comes to commenting on Conti's teaching, there are usually three different categories of commentators:

1. People who use Conti's stuff, and love it.
2. People who use Conti's stuff, and like it.
3. People who have never used Conti's stuff, but don't think much of it, because they learned how to play without it.

Folks who dismiss Conti's teaching would never think of throwing shade at things like the Mickey Baker book, the Herb Ellis books, or the Joe Pass Jazz Lines DVD, which are all the same thing -- learning lines, then learning how to apply and re-apply them. There's more to jazz than this, of course, but that doesn't mean this isn't part of jazz.

And those "100 chords"? That's inaccurate. Conti shows you a bunch of chords, but repeatedly says you don't have to use all of them -- and that he doesn't, either. He says that he shows them all so you can choose the ones you want, harmonize any note, and make the arrangement as dense or as sparse as you want.

The grips in Conti's books are pretty similar to those in Joe Pass Guitar Chords, but nobody crows on Joe. I guess Joe gets a pass because he's Joe Pass.

I think a critique of Conti's method is as follows is

1. It's basically plug and chug without really understanding why and trying to come to grips with music as harmony that's related to Melody . Instead of trying to understand music in a fundamental sense and come to grips with it, you basically get a series of grips you can just throw in. If one spends the time to understand how chords are built, you wouldn't need any of those plug-n-chug stuff. I mean, it's much better to understand why someone put a Db7 instead of a G7. I was taught, first, how to build a 6th chord on the first four strings, the inner four strings, and the last four strings. Then I was taught how to move the voices a around to generate all the other fundamental chord qualities ( m6, , dominant seventh, major seventh, minor seventh, half diminished, diminished, etc. )

2. It sounds like and teaches you the worst kind of clumsy "chord melody " cliches ( A term no other musician, let alone jazz musician, has ever heard ) where are you essentially put a lead boot on the Melody also results in clumsy, clumsy rhythm .

[rlrhett]

I think a critique of Conti's method is as follows is

1. It's basically plug and chug without really understanding why and trying to come to grips with music as harmony that's related to Melody . Instead of trying to understand music in a fundamental sense and come to grips with it, you basically get a series of grips you can just throw in. If one spends the time to understand how chords are built, you wouldn't need any of those plug-n-chug stuff. I mean, it's much better to understand why someone put a Db7 instead of a G7. I was taught, first, how to build a 6th chord on the first four strings, the inner four strings, and the last four strings. Then I was taught how to move the voices a around to generate all the other fundamental chord qualities ( m6, , dominant seventh, major seventh, minor seventh, half diminished, diminished, etc. )

2. It sounds like and teaches you the worst kind of clumsy "chord melody " cliches ( A term no other musician, let alone jazz musician, has ever heard ) where are you essentially put a lead boot on the Melody also results in clumsy, clumsy rhythm .

I think Robert Conti would say your criticism is dead on. He gives you the plug and chug and cliches so you can start playing music. He thinks that is a good place to start your journey.

I think he probably would have all the same contempt for your playing and approach to learning that you have for his. I can just hear him say in that New Jersey wise guy accent of his, "there's some guys...no joke!...who think you have to know what a tritone substitution is before you can play jazz. Can you believe it?!!!"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[snailspace]

I think a critique of Conti's method is as follows is

1. It's basically plug and chug without really understanding why and trying to come to grips with music as harmony that's related to Melody . Instead of trying to understand music in a fundamental sense and come to grips with it, you basically get a series of grips you can just throw in. If one spends the time to understand how chords are built, you wouldn't need any of those plug-n-chug stuff. I mean, it's much better to understand why someone put a Db7 instead of a G7. I was taught, first, how to build a 6th chord on the first four strings, the inner four strings, and the last four strings. Then I was taught how to move the voices a around to generate all the other fundamental chord qualities ( m6, , dominant seventh, major seventh, minor seventh, half diminished, diminished, etc. )

2. It sounds like and teaches you the worst kind of clumsy "chord melody " cliches ( A term no other musician, let alone jazz musician, has ever heard ) where are you essentially put a lead boot on the Melody also results in clumsy, clumsy rhythm .

If you don't like it, don't use it.

Plenty of people do like it, though, and it helps them learn to play this music in a way that is enjoyable and meaningful to them -- regardless of what the "jazz police" think about it. The thing that you disparage as "plug and chug," and "the worst kind of clumsy 'chord melody' cliches" is merely your opinion about something you don't like, and it shows that you're not very well-informed about Conti's approach to teaching. It's not what you seem to think it is.

To the person who is learning to play -- and who is actually reading or listening to Conti's explanations -- it might represent a breakthrough in mapping the fretboard, experiencing how chromaticism and enclosures work and sound, understanding common substitution and reharmonization techniques, and even how voices move in a sequence of chords. Conti teaches all of this in his books and DVDs: you learn to play, and you play to learn. If starting out by "moving the voices around" worked for you, great -- but many legendary jazz players didn't learn that way. Joe Pass didn't. Wes Montgomery didn't. George Benson didn't. There are lots of ways to learn nearly everything.

Plenty of people say "chord melody," by the way -- even jazz musicians.

The Easy Guide To Chord Melody And Chord Soloing
Playing Chord Melody Jazz Guitar (Videos and Tabs)
1-2-3 Jazz Chord Melody - Frank Vignola - TrueFire
Jake Reichbart - Jazz Guitarist, teacher Solo Fingerstyle Guitar Arrangements, guitar lessons

[matt.guitarteacher]

I think a critique of Conti's method is as follows is

1. It's basically plug and chug without really understanding why and trying to come to grips with music as harmony that's related to Melody . Instead of trying to understand music in a fundamental sense and come to grips with it, you basically get a series of grips you can just throw in. If one spends the time to understand how chords are built, you wouldn't need any of those plug-n-chug stuff. I mean, it's much better to understand why someone put a Db7 instead of a G7. I was taught, first, how to build a 6th chord on the first four strings, the inner four strings, and the last four strings. Then I was taught how to move the voices a around to generate all the other fundamental chord qualities ( m6, , dominant seventh, major seventh, minor seventh, half diminished, diminished, etc. )

Again, I think it's fair to say that you could make the same claim about Mickey Baker, William Leavitt , Jody Fisher, Ted Green etc. etc. etc. They don't necessarily ONLY teach the fundamentals of how chords are made , though they may at times.

At a certain point you have to know how to build voicings and such. There's no getting around it, but there's also no arguing the fact that 98% of all jazz guitarists learned a great many voicings by rote from old guitar players or from methods such as these.

[Drumbler]

Wow, I started this thread almost 7 years ago and it's still going!

If I never do another thing in my life I can feel good about myself.

Conti should pay me residuals.

Kind of like being a one-hit wonder in pop music...

List of one-hit wonders in the United States - Wikipedia

[mr. beaumont]

No, you bagged on the method by calling it B.S.

No, I bagged a comment that said "every other method says you need 100 chords." You're just so quick to defend the method you like you missed that I was responding to a specific comment, not the thread in general.

As for Conti's playing, no, I don't like it. It's not about being "cool."

[goldenwave77]

I too struggled, unsuccessfully, for years to learn C-M playing. Conti's Assembly Line broke the logjam for me.

Why?

It's great virtue is that it is (I) completely unambiguous about WHAT to play, and (II) complete, in what it gives you to play.

Most other "methods" fail, dismally, in effect, on (I) and they fall short on (II). Conti shows a c major

chord, and says here is a C melody note on top, play this, here is D--play this chord form, and he supplies the chord grid. The learner can't possibly get it wrong. I added a little notation to the charts to indicate this is the 5th, this is the 6th, the sharp 5 (or flat 6) for augmented, etc. (Everything is for key of C, so it's up to the learner, to work it through in various other keys.)

And it's not that the presentation is so hopelessly simple...in fact two octaves worth of melody notes for major, minor, dim., aug., dominant, and min. 7 flat 5, are well over 100 chord forms.

Does it take some time to get the shifts under your fingers? Absolutely....I've written about spending 2 mos. playing "Old Susannah". Many times I was tempted to "shortcut" by NOT using the indicated forms, but I said to myself, there has got to be method to this madness...and there is. (The other little snippets to learn are taken from jazz standards.)

He demonstrates, for completeness, a chord for every melody note...but this is for completeness, not mandatory.

Pretty much, after working through his chord forms, one can pull out a fake book, and on the spot, do a rudimentary, c-m arrangement. Is it what you would play to an audience?...generally not. BUT it is a great help in learning tunes.

Also, you come to realize some finger style facility greatly helps in doing c-m and solo work, and he doesn't address this directly.

The funny thing is that he disclaims teaching you theory, but you end up learning more practical theory, in effect. Once you learn, completely, the chord tones and extensions for each type of chord, the fun then begins...and you can apply it in the context of actual music....this is "rich contextual" learning. (If you want to learn how to write detective stories, we could read a bunch of boring essays from "literary critics" or we could just read Dashiel Hammett, Ross MacDonald, Sue Grafton, Michael Connelly, Raymond Chandler, etc.).

Lately, I've been focusing on learning simplified, 4-top string chords...and these are coming a lot easier due to what I've picked up from Conti. I've also looked at some Barry Galbraith arrangements, and they look perfectly understandable, and do-able, and make perfect sense....before?....no way that would have happened.

[snailspace]

No, I bagged a comment that said "every other method says you need 100 chords." You're just so quick to defend the method you like you missed that I was responding to a specific comment, not the thread in general.

My mistake. I went back and reread the more recent parts of the thread and saw that you were responding to the post directly above your own. I was too quick on the trigger, and I apologize.

[mr. beaumont]

No problem.

I get heated up sometimes when it comes to Conti, but this is not the place for that, so I apologize too.