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While we're on the subject of Conti's method and material, he's having a sale at his site. (I have no financial affiliation with Conti or his site; I've found his material useful and his approach refreshing. Had a great long talk on phone with him one day--quite a character!) 35% off instructional material and a flat $3.25 shipping fee (-here in the US; $5.95 Rest of the World) Sale runs through January 6 (aka Epiphany)
How to play jazz guitar? Start with a pro player, save time | RobertConti.comLast edited by MarkRhodes; 12-31-2016 at 03:58 PM.
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12-31-2016 03:49 PM
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What a super thread. I popped off for Snailspace after reading one long informative post by West LA Jazz, (good one) and now I am reading all the posts. My ideas still stands, as I agree 100% not to get hung up on scales, to transcribe your favorite solos, LEARN TUNES, and simplify your thinking. I had mentioned to Snailspace that I got to sit down with Jimmy Bruno for 20 minutes after a seminar I covered for the Guitar News Weekly, and he said he could not think in terms of scales and modes. Too confusing. By the time you analyze what to play and remember some scale or mode with a complicated name, (the X mode from the 4th step of the Y scale) the moment has passed. (he said also you needed to know the scale fingerings cold, but then not think about what to use where. Just play).
Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Bruno also said one could go from any note to any note anytime, and bend, slide, weave that note, even if seemingly dissonant or plain wrong theoretically, into a cool phrase. Let your ear work, not the rules from the method books.
I had a student some years ago that studied with 2 different Berklee grads and like Mark, he never learned or played a tune. Just exercises, drills, scales etc. We worked on tunes. I always work on tunes. That is music. Scales and drills and exercises are not. They have value, but are not the end goal. Music is.
With the advent of ireal pro, learning tunes is a snap. Find the tunes, the artist you like, the melodies and solos on Yoptube, strip the audio to an mp3, run the mp3 through Transcribe if you want lines and phrases of solos, and crank up ireal pro to practice playing the head, comping changes (turn off the piano) and then play solos (transcribed lines and the VARIATIONS/original connecting lines and phrases you create) at different speeds and keys.
Doh!
It ain't rocket science.Last edited by docdosco; 12-31-2016 at 03:55 PM.
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Of course. Not necessarily saying one thing is better than the other or all one versus another etc. Originally Posted by jasaco
It just seems like when it comes to Conti, there's very often this notion that a video with someone showing you stuff is cheating or something. IMO it's whatever you want relative to wherever you are in your progress. I've never been much for video instruction personally, but a lot of people are apparently.
All things being equal, more than anything else, I would rather sit down with Wes and play WITH him, ask questions, see how he's playing things. Beyond that, I would certainly buy his instructional videos, had he ever made them. Transcription has its value as well....books etc.
It's just a mental exercise of mine ...philosophical question, but I wonder if someone said that they were going to get private lessons from a teacher who plays neither as well as Conti nor Wes Montgomery... would anyone talk about THAT being a waste, when they could just transcribe a better player? Where's the distinction there, and who decides?
If a video gets someone playing, that's cool too... different strokes...Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 12-31-2016 at 04:03 PM.
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As I sift through my pile of instructional books and DVDs (Conti and others), trying to chart a course for improving my playing over the year to come, I keep coming back to this. Originally Posted by docdosco
Thanks, Doc -- sometimes I don't know what I think until someone else says it to me.
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I love this story about Joe Pass. Originally Posted by docdosco
"Hey, Joe, let's jam!"
Joe: "I don't jam. I play tunes."
Conti met Wes once (-Conti was still a teen, I think) and he asked Wes for advice. Wes said, "Play as much as you can and learn good tunes."
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Originally Posted by snailspace
Sure. I had some guys tell me this stuff, and I just pass it along. I never had much for formal lessons, however when I picked up guitar again in 2000, I ran 2 nights at a coffee shop as a jazz guitar sit-in here in LA. I was amazed at how many really fine players would show up to play a set. I was a relatively accomplished player in some areas (more akin to fusion) before I gave up for a dozen years, and I knew a ton of great guitar players in LA, so I jumped back jazz guitar surrounded by the best.
BTW, I also suggest playing with other musicians. Some guys I taught played in their bedroom their whole life. That was why they never really learned tunes, or played music that called for interaction, they played bits and pieces of this and that. Their time was shaky, and their concepts were narrow. Their expectations were high, but their skill sets had big holes in them.
That is why ireal pro is a decent substitution for interaction with other people. However, playing with other players should be a goal to those who don't right now. And, some I had were scared to try. They got complacent within the box.
I had one student that had a 2 inch thick binder book of scales he had worked out and he could play any scale/mode including weird Indian, Byzantine etc for 2 octaves up and down everywhere. When I told him to start on say the 4th step and play an octave, or to try and make a melody up from a scale, he was lost. He had so nailed each scale in 2 octave form up and down that it had no resemblance to music, it was just a brain teaser played out on the fretboard.
Go figure....Last edited by docdosco; 12-31-2016 at 04:51 PM.
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Yep!
I must sound like the name dropper of the century, however I was around Sid Jacobs a lot, and he gave me a copy of The Changes, you mentioned in an earlier post before. (he gave me his Essential lines and phrases book too)
"Learn tunes and if you steal lines, steal from the best" That was his motto.
He transcribed like a MF. Also, his targeting of 3rds and 7ths and b9ths (like in The Changes) was at the heart of his playing and I absorbed this concept readily, as you hear that same idea within the soloing of all great jazz players, not just guitar but everything else.
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Originally Posted by docdosco
Interesting thread and the whole things seems to me right here. His set up is very different than mine, and I am not comparing my playing with his, just the physical. I use heavy strings 13-52 with generally 25.5 scale and an incredibly thick pick about 2mm absolutely no bending of material. I have large hands not particularly thick fingers so trying play his solos like him would be crazy for me. The only real thing I see is while is method is fine I just do not see it as the end to beat all. Not probably any way is the end to beat all but for myself I see learning tunes and melodies first. Be able to play the melody and the changes in your sleep. Be able to transpose to any key simply be ear. Play through all the arps before you do anything else. Then maybe start thinking about adding things. Scales and arps are very useful and make much better sense when you know the tune rather than say...........ok here is the chord use this scale. I will be first to tell you I have done it all the wrong way. Wish I would have practice better what I just preached ( cannot get the deacon out of the blood.)
Nothing worse than a playing session and someone says lets play the blues in Bb and everyone takes off. All I want to do is get lost or maybe try a super nice comp for the soloist. The last thing I want to do is solo. Now take a situation where we sit down to play a tune like It Could Happen to You. Now we can work the melody and interweave some lines. The older I get the more I like the melody to keep coming up. It also covers up my short comings as a player.
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This one's going on the wall of my practice area, and it's all I'm gonna do on the instrument for the next year. Originally Posted by docdosco
Thanks, Doc!
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It's kind of off-topic here, but I like Sid's playing and think his book "The Changes" is very good. He wants to get you up and running rather than sitting and analyzing. Originally Posted by docdosco
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Well, blues can be played following the changes, bebop style, or with pentatonic, blues riffs/runs/lines. Or both, as I like to do by weaving them together. I have quirky phrasing concepts, I guess. I also run octaves and single lines together throughout a solo sometimes rather than doing single lines first and ending on octaves. Originally Posted by deacon Mark
Anyway, blues can be a wonderful structure to express the blues, or to express traditional straight ahead, and working in both is cool too.
Here, I'll make you suffer through a Bb blues of mine that mixes blues scale, pentatonic styled stuff, with bebop/ straight ahead lines. I like the juxtaposition, although it may not suit every taste.....
....a bit off topic from Robert Conti too, but it addresses a comment in a post.... : )
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Given that this is New Year's Eve, how about an impromptu poll:
What Conti material are you now (or soon to be) working in (or working through a second or third time)?
I have taken out my copies of "Jazz Lines" and "Intros, Endings, & Turnarounds." There's a Bb blues solo I learned awhile back that I want to refresh and record for possible inclusion in Conti's "player's gallery."
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@MarkRhodes -- Working on Conti's "Intros, Endings, & Turnarounds". I revisit his "Jazz Lines" from time to time. And hope to complete the "Comping Expo" and "Big City Blues" in 2017. All good stuff as they have helped to improve my technique and ear. FYI I just lifted a nice Conti intro to use for Moon River (that I lifted from a Royce Campbell YouTube video). Learning more tunes is still the #1 priority for 2017. Cheers.
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Great! Originally Posted by losaltosjoe
"Comping Expo" is the only book/CD in Conti's "Source Code" series that I do not have. One of these days...
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Just spent an afternoon enjoying Roberts lessons. Have to say not only are they entertaining but his lines are so melodic. Once learned easy to move around and change . Have to say if I learnt every scale and mode under the sun to the enth degree I would come up with unmelodic and boring "machine gun" lines. Never mind the melodic quality feel the speed , one of the reasons I no longer go to watch guitarists at local jazz club as many thinks sped equates bebop and they are so ridiculously fast but meaningless . I m sure all you guys can create wonderful melodic lines at breakneck speed and I am in the minority but I can't and I thank Robert for delivering immense fun ,pleasure and entertainment. Best fun I've had with my clothes on. But ,jet you into a secret , I tend to play without. Probably why the guys are tailing if.😎
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Best fun with my clothes on! That's hilarious. What town and what club are you referring to? Originally Posted by mispeltyoof
Happy New Year!
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This post contains one of the seemingly little regarded universal truths of jazz guitar, that you don't have to machine gun blistering lines out ad naseum. Displaying self styled virtuosity every second has nothing to do with creating a well constructed melody, with tension/resolution or question and answer phrases, or simple motifs developed into more complex ideas within the 'context' of the music. Originally Posted by mispeltyoof
Grant Green was the master of playing lines that were cool as shit, and yet, he was not a technical wizard. Most any good, intermediate jazz guitarist can learn his lines verbatim. (of course, he only played single lines, no chords, so that approach was limiting in one way, but brilliant in another - he wanted his guitar to be a sax). So, you don't have to be a speed demon savant to play good jazz guitar.
If you don't leave space for the listener to absorb your ideas, your lines, your musical identity through your fingers, it becomes a 'meaningless' blur. Some people play to impress. I used to and played shit mostly. Most jazz calls for space to give the notes you do play more impact. It is said that Miles was the master of this.
Virtuosity has it's place, and a few guys can pull off fretboard gymnastics and still sound musical. However, the double fast lines should be used to punctuate, to culminate, or to sum up the ideas, not overwhelm and confuse with a bombastic barrage of non stop notes..... unless you are playing bop at breakneck speed, and even then, being circumspect and leaving breathing spaces is essential.
I am really interested in why Robert is so popular with 'certain' students'. Never having seen his material, again, I can't comment, but I know the man, and he is an impressive player.
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An old interview, but still worth a read:
"The Amazing Robert Conti" by Mark Stefani
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Originally Posted by snailspace
Thanks for posting this!
Mark Stefani posts here sometimes. I hope he posts more this year. Last I heard, he was working on some new instructional material. Maybe he'll give us an inkling of it (hint, hint ;o)
Quite a blurb from Bruce Forman, who has many fans here. And Jimmy Bruno...And Ron Eschete...And Sid Jacobs...and....
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Yes ,Thanks for posting this. I read the original but haven't remembered it for a long time. I subscribed to JJG for years ,mainly for Roberts always excellent chord melody lessons backed up with video tutorials. When Robert sadly ceased presenting his "take it to the gig" material the mag lost much of its appeal for me.
His learning materials are not only first class in content but highly entertaining and very enjoyable.
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When I saw this thread title, I thought I remembered it from quite a while back, so I re-read several older posts. After reading so many positive comments from students about the impact that Robert Conti had on them, I then read an ignorant and extremely offensive post from someone with the name "jorexsaligan" and I had to chime in, as my experience with the Conti materials echoes the positive reports from numerous players in this lengthy thread, and on his website. I was really annoyed by the statements jorexsaligan made about Conti, and especially his attacks on students who placed videos on the Robert Conti website. I would be overjoyed to reach the level of some of those students. According to jorexsaligan, everyone's time is bad. In my opinion, comments like that should not be allowed against anyone, especially against a guy with Conti's experience, or against students who might be sensitive about their playing and appreciate good constructive criticism.
I saw Conti perform at NAMM in 2013 with a custom made 8 string guitar. A huge crowd of people converged on that booth, and there were several major players in the crowd, all just as impressed as I was with his performance. Five or six months later, some circumstances allowed me to hear him play solo for two hours in Las Vegas, and he was even more impressive.
There is an earlier post in this thread, where a fellow named Dosco said Conti had "...a lot of detractors." How can anyone detract after reading all the positive comments in this thread?
I'm on his mailing list and I saw this trade video several months ago. Thought other members who want to make a living in the music industry would enjoy seeing this. (I posted a comment some time ago)
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It was fun to revisit this interview. I'm always moved by Robert's comment about taking time off from the guitar to pursuit various business interests...
"All of the material niceties I had acquired could not fill the void of not being able to play music every day."
I'm a hack but still need to have a guitar in my hands 30-60 minutes each day (but wish it could be longer).
Originally Posted by snailspace
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I think people see Conti the teacher, and forget that before he created his learning products, he had established a solid reputation as a formidable player, whose abilities had earned the respect of his contemporaries. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
I don't believe he toured nationally as a jazz artist, and his recorded output is small compared to players like Joe Pass, Pat Martino, and George Benson; but his playing -- on originals as well as standards -- is impressive on releases such as The Jazz Quintet, Comin' on Strong!, and To the Brink! Personally, I'd love to see Conti release a CD or DVD of his solo playing.
When I bought the the issue of Guitar World linked below, I liked jazz, but wasn't playing it. I remember this article, but I was still early enough into my playing to be unfamiliar with many of the guitarists about whom I read. I was glad to come across the article on Conti's site and have a chance to read it again, because it gave me insight into the regard in which he was held by those in the know at the time.
Rediscovered Genius – Guitar World Magazine | RobertConti.com
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As someone who has a lot of different books about a lot of different things, I have to admit that I haven't done much with any of them. However, after making a couple of attempts at laying out a course of study for the months to come, it dawned on me that for everything I say I want to learn, I already own a Conti product that teaches it.
For the last two weeks, I've been working with these four items:
* Ticket To Improv, Volume One
* The Precision Technique
* The Chord Melody Assembly Line
* Conti's Play Pro Chord Melody Today! arrangement of "Since I Fell For You"
I've also been playing the head and chords that go with the TTI tune, as well.
Although I realize there is much work to do with these materials, I've been enjoying my practice time for the first time in a long time. I've missed a couple of days, or sometimes haven't gotten in all of the practice I've planned, and it's been a disappointment when that has happened. I'm motivated for the first time in a long time, because it's fun again, it sounds like music, and success seems like a real possibility . . . instead of one that once felt remote, at best.
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Absolutely! Entertainment,pleasure and a feeling if playing music rather than serving a punishment sentence
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