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Hello,
As per the title really.
So I'd set myself a goal of learning X amount of standards with a view to being able to rock up at jams of find some local musos.
Couple of days on one and ive got a passable comping and solo approach for it ( taking on simple tunes) so it should be 'tick, tune in the bag, move on'.
Thing is I don't! E.g. I've been on blue bossa for weeks, exploring different versions, chord studies etc. It's fascinating.
So on the one hand I'm holding back progress by not covering tunes quickly but on the other hand, making progress by what I pick up from each tune.
Just wondering what other people do? Do you treat a tune as something to tick off and move on, or do you dewll on them and make the most of them?
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11-20-2022 05:50 AM
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There are songs that I will play for Life, at first the challenge is to learn , then to add nuance , then to add Your flavor.
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There was a stage years ago where I could play almost any tune from the 'REAL BOOK' by just reading the chord changes acquired from countless spontaneous all night jazz jam sessions.
These days I focus on tunes I really like and feel something strong for and that affect me powerfully emotionally.
Autumn leaves for example.. which I have been studying and dissecting for 38 years.Last edited by Maxxx; 11-20-2022 at 07:15 AM.
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Depends on the goal, perhaps. I want to be able to play for fun with others spontaneously in amateur sessions. So for that, to learn the melody and changes, depending on how easy or difficult is the tune, can take a week to be passable for a jam.
But that’s just the beginning. After that, can take months or even years to internalize it and gain a better degree of fluency, especially for different contexts.
I start with the tunes usually called at local sessions, for the sake of joining, and then adding some of my favorites to call if the opportunity might arise.
In the former category, it’s tunes like Autumn Leaves, Wine and Roses, Blue Bossa, Ipanema, Fly Me, etc. In the latter, Strollin’, Beatrice, Shadow of Your Smile.
Agreed though, that even for the better known tunes like Autumn Leaves, I been playing them for years and still finding new ways.
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I play a few standards, (between 30 and 40), I play them by heart, for the others, they come and go or at the end belong to the 30 or 40 standards, maybe more.
I can't say I play them very well but I know them.
It's difficult to say because most of the time, you play a tune for someone, you don't really care of the melody so you don't really play it and will never know it.
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How long do you spend on a given tune?
Till I'm happy with it. Which in some cases is never :-)
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Early in my jazz days I went through probably 100 or 200 standards with my jazz buddies so I superficially know a lot of tunes.
Now my goal is proficiency on solo Hammond so I'm doing an extremely tune focused regimen. I'm working a few tunes hard to get mastery of them rather than just a quick comp and solo over including bass line, comp, chord melody, melody, solo.
I have 7 styles/grooves that I try to cover and have tunes for them. Swing in 4 and 2, ballad, bossa, waltz, funk, and pop.
I also have an all key regimen where I play exclusively in 1 key for several days and then go up a half step. So my goal is to really get the tune ingrained.
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5-10 minutes up to about 20+ years.
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I have a few that I've spent too much time on and many with waaaaay too little.
I think I'll try Beaumont's thing now. For 20 years
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So I'd set myself a goal of learning X amount of standards with a view to being able to rock up at jams of find some local musos.
You should be able to learn a simple one in a week.
Lead sheets will be your friend here, if the sheet is two pages long or has 4 chords every bar skip that tune for now, the short term goal is getting on stage don’t complicate things right now.
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Originally Posted by AllanAllen
It's about time KingKong started walking the walk instead of talking the talk too much!
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I had a chance to talk with Jim Hall about 20 years ago. He said he was going to play Round Midnight later in the evening. I said "How do you approach that tune?" and he said I've been playing that tune most of my life and I'm still trying to figure it out.
I thought "How can that be? You MUST know the changes by now?". The longer I've been playing, and the more I learn about harmony, phrases, internal song segments, pacing, melody/harmony relationships, solo pacing, motif, and the ways the tune reveals ways that can be brought to light about contrast and development..., the more I know about what all these tunes have in common (how easy it is to learn a piece) and the ways each tune takes the player to different places (how hard it is to know a piece).
You'll answer your own question as you put in the time on the instrument.
You don't need to give up on Blue Bossa to tackle a new tune. As a matter of fact, breaking open a new tune can teach you a lot about the one you're working on.
If you don't think you're ready to start a new tune, you are. Just learn something with each challenge.
Just as a note, I don't consider that I know a tune until I can play it in time-off book. Anything before that is prep work.
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Originally Posted by KingKong
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Depends on the tune and the arrangement.
If I'm preparing for a big band show with a chart that I find really hard to read, I may spend a few hours with it. Reading it, practicing along with a recording.
If I'm preparing for a gig with a reasonable chart, and there's something I have to get to the point where I can't play it wrong, it will be maybe 10 minutes a day for 10 days, or so.
For a chord melody on a favorite tune, I'll tinker with it for years. Same with the head to Donna Lee and the solo changes for Giant Steps. These are things I've practiced regularly for years. I'm still refining the Donna Lee fingering.
To learn a new tune that I'm going to read on a gig, I'll spend a few minutes.
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Well for Giant Steps I just sort of keep working out different solos that I memorize and then run together. This saves my butt in a jam session so I don't get lost. The tune itself is simply but the tempo keeps me working. Likewise a slow ballad can be a battle to play correctly. I still find Misty a challenge when it goes super slow.........so how long do I keep working on a tune? I go along with Mr B over 20 years for sure.
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How long is a piece of string?
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In the Jazz world the first practical level of accomplishment occurs when your drummer stops his frowning.
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Thanks all for some really great and supportive advice.
Just been on blue bossa again, it's the rhythm side of it.. like I'm trying to make drum fills out of the notes if you know what I mean? Seem to be hooked on it.
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Leave that to the drummer. If you Over emphasize the rhythm the soloist is going to be battling you the whole time.
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Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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ill spend the next 7 days working on this transcripton...just getting the notes down...hopefully Wes can help me Wes Montgomery - Nica's Dream Transcription (Live 1965) the one in holland with Pim Jacobs on piano
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I am a HS jazz teacher. I encourage my students to learn one new tune every week, in the Real Book key and maybe a third above and below.
I also have them come up with one lick each day and learn it in all 12 keys.
If they will do this for one year they will be able to play around 50 tunes in various keys and will have an improvising vocabulary of more than 350 licks in all keys. If they can do this, they should be able to hang on most gigs.
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Originally Posted by KingKong
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In the time you have spent in this thread you could have learnt a whole tune.
NGD and a Mystery - Epiphone Content
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