The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Posts 1 to 25 of 60
  1. #1

    User Info Menu

    I got The Advancing Guitarist yesterday. I got it because I had heard about it here, and I then checked it out at Amazon, ( I had heard of it before), and read the intro. I immediately began exploring playing on strings in a linear way. The feelings I had were feeling very liberated. I have webcam so I recorded me strumming Cmajor chord for several mins and then on each string separately over loops of this recording I improvized.
    I immediately ordered the book.

    Now if possible could I use this thread to ask questions regarding the book, just so I can have some needed help?

    My first query is about his recommended "modal vamps". I of course would like to practice these excercises correctly and thus need to know what I need to do. So it would help if anyone has a copy and could help me, but if not I am a good describer and will give all the info needed.

    So this is pre-description author gives in his book:

    'Activities--Application
    1) Map out all natural notes (A,B,C,D,E,F,G) up and down each of the six strings individually (Entire length of the fingerboard)' (cool I can do this)

    2) 'Record suggested modal vamps on your taperecorder...'

    Now I KNOW that there is theory I need to understand such as is described on page 14 about 'Derivative and Parallel modal scales'. Although I can understand the Derivative, I am confused about the parallel only because i am getting confused that the modes from Cmj have no sharps or flats, and yet the parallells do. I had never heard that term--parallel--before this book!

    But I am guessing author is asking to make modal vamps out of the C major modes with no sharps or flats? (bet I'm wrong)

    IF so I need to know how to make some recordings. I have trouble reading music so if someone could help me out with tabs, or chord progressions that would help me get to improvising on the strings that would be good.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

    User Info Menu

    You can use one chord per vamp. He says "the seven suggested modal vamps" so he just wants you to use the modes derived from C major to make one vamp per mode. Just use the tonic chord for each vamp (e.g. Dm for D dorian, and so on).

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrybe
    You can use one chord per vamp. He says "the seven suggested modal vamps" so he just wants you to use the modes derived from C major to make one vamp per mode. Just use the tonic chord for each vamp (e.g. Dm for D dorian, and so on).
    So you mean to make recordings of these chords?

    I - C Maj - C Ionian.
    ii - D Min - D Dorian.
    iii - E Min - E Phrygian.
    IV - F Maj - F Lydian.
    V - G Maj - G Mixolydian.
    vi - A Min - A Aeolian.
    vii° - B Dim - B Locrian.

  5. #4

    User Info Menu

    yup, only the B is a half dim chord, not a dim chord. You want the notes B D F A for that one.

  6. #5

    User Info Menu

    His vamps are fine as is a single chord. Even simpler is to make a rhythmic octave pedal tone vamp. Apart from practicing the note locations you are practicing making something musical within a limited note collection and learning to hear the intervals that each mode offers.

    Derivative-7 modes derived from C Major
    CDEFGABC
    DEFGABCD
    EFGABCDE
    FGABCDEF
    GABCDEFG
    ABCDEFGA
    BCDEFGAB

    Parallel- There are 7 different major scales that have a C in them, one scale for each of the 7 degrees.
    1st-Cmaj (CDEFGABC)
    2nd-Bbmaj BbCDEBFGABb
    3rd-Abmaj AbBbCDbEbFGAb
    4th-Gmaj GABCDEF#G
    5th-Fmaj FGABbCDEF
    6th-Ebmaj EbFGAbBbCDEB
    7th-Dbmaj DbEbFGbAbBbCDb

    When you line up each of these scales starting on C they form what he is referring to as Parallel modes
    Ionian-CDEFGABC
    Dorian-CDEbFGABbC
    Phygian-CDbEbFGAbBbC
    Lydian-CDEF#GABC
    Mixolydian-CDEFGABbC
    Aeolian-CDEbFGAbBbC
    Locrian-CDbEbFGbAbBbC

    All these modes are parallel to C even though they are derive from 7 different major scales.

    Great book and funny too.

  7. #6

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by elixzer
    So you mean to make recordings of these chords?

    I - C Maj - C Ionian.
    ii - D Min - D Dorian.
    iii - E Min - E Phrygian.
    IV - F Maj - F Lydian.
    V - G Maj - G Mixolydian.
    vi - A Min - A Aeolian.
    vii° - B Dim - B Locrian.
    V is G7 - ie dominant 7th with an F, not major 7th with a F# - because there's an F but no F# in the C major scale

  8. #7
    I am completely UN-plugged so there is no pedal. Is this a problem?

    As I presently understand it, I am to make 3 minute recordings of EACH chord, Ie., Cmajor, Dminor, Eminor etc, and over these I can then improvise on each string. Correct?
    IF so I think it is best to keep it simple and just do the regular chords at bottom of fingerboard, and finger in 7th notes also here and there. Agreed?
    Last edited by elixzer; 04-11-2010 at 09:12 AM.

  9. #8

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by elixzer
    I am completely UN-plugged so there is no pedal. Is this a problem?
    I read "pedal tone" in bako's post as Pedal point - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by Bill C; 04-11-2010 at 09:23 AM. Reason: typo

  10. #9

    User Info Menu

    This Link

    will explain it further- the first couple of minutes is enough to get the idea.

  11. #10

    User Info Menu

    What the OP wrote about the chord types is just in it's triad form so

    major
    minor
    minor
    major
    major
    minor
    diminished
    is correct.

    It is only when it's expanded to 4 note chords when it changes

    Major 7th
    Minor 7th
    Minor 7th
    Major 7th
    Dominant 7th
    Minor 7th
    Minor 7 b 5 (half diminished)

    You can expand this further too (unrelated but I just thought of it)
    5 note chords
    Major 9
    Minor 9
    Minor b9 (sounds bad)
    Major 9
    Dominant 9
    Minor 9
    Minor b9 b5 (also sounds bad)

    6 note chords
    Major 11 (sounds bad.)
    Minor 11
    Minor 11 b9 (sounds bad)
    Major #11
    Dominant 11 (sounds bad)
    Minor 11
    Minor 11 b5 b9 (sounds bad)

    7 note chords
    Major 13 (sounds bad)
    Minor 13
    Minor b13 b9 (sounds bad)
    Major 13 #11
    Dominant 13 (sounds bad)
    Minor b13 (sounds bad)
    Minor 13 b9 b5 (sounds bad)

    The ones that sounds bad are containing avoid (or as I'd like to call it 'dissonant') notes.

    The dissonant notes are
    Major (Ionian) - 11th (4th)
    Dorian - No avoid notes
    Phrygian - The b6 and b9.
    Lydian - Again no avoid notes.
    Mixolydian - the 11th
    Aeolian - The b6.
    Locrian - The b9.

    These are useful to know when creating voicing..

  12. #11

    User Info Menu

    I just made a modal vamp for you with BIAB. This is the C Ionian modal vamp from the book which is

    /Cmaj7 / G9sus /

  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by billkath
    This Link

    will explain it further- the first couple of minutes is enough to get the idea.
    I see, but I would have just thought this demo was fingerpicking Bluestyle where fingers are working independent of thumb which keeps a steady beat ---an amazing skill I have not yet acquired but REALLY want to!! though I have done Classical fingerstyle--AM doing fingerstyle whenever I can

    Now, regarding what you say. You are meaning to keep a drone going. Well for the purposes of the excercises to be recoreded--the modes of C major this must mean really I suppose making sure when strumming the particular chord to make sure to keep base note droning?
    I suppse occasionally I could do arpeggios of the chord too which would be more in keeping with that video link demo you recommended?

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    I just made a modal vamp for you with BIAB. This is the C Ionian modal vamp from the book which is

    /Cmaj7 / G9sus /
    Hey fep, THANKS!

    But I don't understand.

    To my 'inexperienced' ears this is how I am listening to that mp3. I think I hear a base player, and drums? Whereas I --up to now--believe that all I need to do is to strum the 7 modes C, Dmin, Eminor etc etc so as to then put melody improvisations over them on the strings

    Just what can I do with C major? Well before getting the book I aready have been practising on single strings listening to a recording of me playing a simple Cmajor, where I will raise certain fingers off to give a variety, and also sing the tones with it to give further variety.

    I am understanding that is alright? And that next chord will be D minor? and so on

  15. #14

    User Info Menu

    Here's D Dorian

    In the book Goodrick uses quartal harmonies for D Dorian which I can't do in BIAB. So here are as close I can get:

    Dm69 / Dm11

  16. #15

    User Info Menu

    Elizer,

    Per the authors instruction each modal vamp should be between 2 and 4 minutes long. They're seperate vamps.

    The idea is to jam over a modal vamp, you don't change modes during each vamp. This simplifies things, which the author is trying to do at this point of the book and more importantly it trains your ear to get use to the sound of each mode.

    I like to do it with BIAB because it's easier than recording and I have more fun doing the excercises with the whole band.

    Edit: Just back from my dog walk, while walking it ocurred to me I might not have understood your question. Those mp3s are not examples of me doing the excercise. They are backing tracks for you to play the excercise over.
    Last edited by fep; 04-11-2010 at 11:18 AM.

  17. #16

    User Info Menu

    Mick Goodrick gives you a chord sequence for each mode that creates the character.

    Playing just the chord associated with the degree simplifies matters to the fundamental harmony.

    Playing against a pedal point simplifies even further where the melody itself creates the harmony.

    These are 3 interrelated ways to practice the same thing. It has to do with how much harmonic information you want to come from the accompaniment track and how much from your improvisation.

  18. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Here's D Dorian

    In the book Goodrick uses quartal harmonies for D Dorian which I can't do in BIAB. So here are as close I can get:

    Dm69 / Dm11
    Cool I started playing Dminor with it which IS D Dorian of course and it sounded good. I hear you improvising over D dorian. great

  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Elizer,

    Per the authors instruction each modal vamp should be between 2 and 4 minutes long. They're seperate vamps.

    The idea is to jam over a modal vamp, you don't change modes during each vamp. This simplifies things, which the author is trying to do at this point of the book and more importantly it trains your ear to get use to the sound of each mode.

    I like to do it with BIAB because it's easier than recording and I have more fun doing the excercises with the whole band.

    Edit: Just back from my dog walk, while walking it ocurred to me I might not have understood your question. Those mp3s are not examples of me doing the excercise. They are backing tracks for you to play the excercise over.
    LOL right right, I understand now. Many thanks fep--this will deepen my experience of doing this

    By the way, I know that I am to do ONE mode at a time, and practice on each string separately for EACH mode. That is what I did with Cmajor but I cheated and did two strings, and striking two strings at same time. Is VERY hard not to cheat fast

  20. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by bako
    Mick Goodrick gives you a chord sequence for each mode that creates the character.

    Playing just the chord associated with the degree simplifies matters to the fundamental harmony.

    Playing against a pedal point simplifies even further where the melody itself creates the harmony.

    These are 3 interrelated ways to practice the same thing. It has to do with how much harmonic information you want to come from the accompaniment track and how much from your improvisation.
    (my emphasis)

    I want to not misunderstand --what I emphasized. 'Playing against a pedal point' is playing against the base drone of the chord---kind of like an ongoing tonal quality........right?

  21. #20

    User Info Menu

    Hi bako,

    I'm just following the instructions/chords from the book.

    The thing about the chord progressions is that they include the notes that create the character of the mode.

    For example Dm69 for dorian, includes the 6th scale degree which is an important tone for creating the dorian tonality.

    Just playing a D pedal or a Dm chord won't give you that dorian quality (although you can add the dorian quality by the way you improvise along with the D pedal or Dm chord, if you do it correctly. Using the Dm69 makes it more likely you'll improvise D dorian type lines.).

  22. #21

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by itsall4you
    The ones that sounds bad are containing avoid (or as I'd like to call it 'dissonant') notes.

    The dissonant notes are
    Major (Ionian) - 11th (4th)
    Dorian - No avoid notes
    Phrygian - The b6 and b9.
    Lydian - Again no avoid notes.
    Mixolydian - the 11th
    Aeolian - The b6.
    Locrian - The b9.

    These are useful to know when creating voicing..

    I think it is important when studying the modes to not avoid these notes and learn the sound they offer.

    Example phrygian
    If we remove b2 then it is aeolian
    If we additionally remove b6 then it's dorian

    For better or worse each interval creates the individual character of the mode. Internalize the sound and then use at your own discretion.

  23. #22

    User Info Menu

    Fep,

    You are probably right, that for someone starting out with this, the full chord sequence might get them up and running faster and hearing the implied harmony better.
    Sometimes I feel the less I hear in accompaniment the more I can understand the nuance of each note I add. With the vamp it is already Dm6/9 even if play an A note. With the pedal tone it only becomes that harmony when I play F,B,E.

    Elixir,

    Record a low register (on bass if you have one) rhythmic vamp on the root note and perhaps the octave for each mode (C,D,E,F,G,A,B)

  24. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by bako
    Fep,

    You are probably right, that for someone starting out with this, the full chord sequence might get them up and running faster and hearing the implied harmony better.
    Sometimes I feel the less I hear in accompaniment the more I can understand the nuance of each note I add. With the vamp it is already Dm6/9 even if play an A note. With the pedal tone it only becomes that harmony when I play F,B,E.

    Elixir,

    Record a low register (on bass if you have one) rhythmic vamp on the root note and perhaps the octave for each mode (C,D,E,F,G,A,B)
    No I dont have a base. So what are you suggesting. That just playing normal chords of C, D minor, E minor etc is not sufficient for this excercise?

  25. #24

    User Info Menu

    Elixzer,
    The seven modal vamps that Goodrick gives to play over are on pages 15 & 16. I would think that you could use BIAB or some other looping program to setup a playalong.

    They are playable if you want record them yourself. You have to tune to Drop D to play the Dorian vamp.

    The idea is to isolate each mode to train the ear as well as play on each string individually to train the hand to where the modal patterns lie in a straight line.

    The book is densely written and becomes easier to understand with multiple readings.
    Regards,
    monk

  26. #25

    User Info Menu

    Here's BIAB for E phyrgian:

    Goodricks chords: Em | Fmaj7#11/E | Em7 | Fmaj7#11/E |

    Biab wasn't playing those chords correctly (if wasn't including an F for the Fmaj7#11/E)

    So I did it this way: Em | F/E | Em7 | F/E | it's still good for practicing phyrgian over.
    Last edited by fep; 04-12-2010 at 08:39 PM.