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Wow. Nice. I have to admit that clicking on this link was kind of like looking at a car crash. "But I just had to look, having read the book". Pleasantly surprised. I think this is a good example of a well-done arrangement as opposed to a cheesy one. It's very musical, 100% Joe, so far removed from the original that it does not sound gimmicky, and yet still close enough that it is recognizable.
Originally Posted by grahambop
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04-08-2022 10:44 AM
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John Scofield - Bill Frisell
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Even Count Basie did Pop Covers.
I understand the wish to work on Pop Material. People tend to really enjoy that stuff, and I think it can also be a really fun challenge.
I agree though that it can be gimmicky, and I often think it's difficult to avoid sounding like that. I usually try to produce something that does not feel like a gag. I don't know if i succeed in that.
Paul
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I often wonder where the idea of ??playing pop songs by jazz musicians comes from.
Is it because pop music has a bigger audience than jazz?
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The sixties made jazz outdated. While jazz cats played their interpretations of show tunes of the thirties, bands from Britain and producers in Detroit were making new music, which young people enjoyed immensely.
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the guys in Detroit were all jazz cats…. James Jamerson hated pop and wanted to be a jazz bass player but he will always be remembered as the founding father of electric bass. Funny how it goes, eh? Originally Posted by Litterick
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What about Miles Davis?
I've read that Miles seems to have made pop stars a bit angry.
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Time after time; why oh why?
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The onscreen text at the end of That Thing You Do reveals that the drummer in the Oneders, Guy, and his girlfriend Faye are now married with four children in Bainbridge Island, Washington, where Guy teaches jazz composition at their own music conservatory. Pop may be fun but jazz is real music. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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what about classic music? Originally Posted by Litterick
I know some brilliant classical music professors who like good jazz and good pop.
For them, classical music is real music.
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Because people love pop and Miles too. Originally Posted by Litterick
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I prefer Miles with Scritti Politti.
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This is pop song with vocal...not instrumental. Originally Posted by Litterick
For my test too much electronic.
Would it be less valuable without Miles?
There is more Miles in another one:
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and of course the classic Originally Posted by Litterick
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This is probably not helpful, but it may be a good idea to not have a narrow idea of what jazz is.
Rich harmony: So What has two chords. Passion Dance has a solo on one chord.
Melody: One Note Samba
Rhythm: you name it. Jazz has everything.
Frisell's arrangements of pop tunes that I've heard (I haven't heard much) sound very individual and maybe not classically jazzy, if we could define what that means.
So, the first ingredient, I think, is imagination. You have to imagine what you want the tune to sound like.
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I was a helpful post, and yes, I do think people get a bit funny about how they define jazz, but that's just MHO. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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I think that the style of the so-called 'smooth jazz' is a good example when jazz performers often reach for pop songs.
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J4zz, they don't get funny, as you put it, it's because there are so many varieties of so-called jazz that a person would have trouble naming them all. All one can say is that it started vaguely in the US about a century ago. And even that's open to question because of myriad other influences whose roots are far more obscure, including the blues. It was definitely a black thing originally, which means Africa. But it's not confined to Africa either. The fact that the whites took it over and it drifted into Europe is neither here nor there. Some say it's defined by improvisation but that's not true either. All music has improvisational factors in it, including classical music. Originally Posted by j4zz
When you say they 'get funny' about defining it, it's not because they're being difficult, it's because it's practically indefinable to any real degree. Like a virus, it has spread, mutated, and mutated again. Not that jazz is a virus, of course, it's an expressive art form.
Beware the person who says they can define it, they know not of what they speak.
Jazz - Wikipedia
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If you want an exercise, try this.
Play something over these chords:
C - G7 - C - C
Now substitute like this:
C/Am - F/G7 - C/F - C
Now like this:
C/A7 - Dm/G7 - C/Fm - C
Now like this:
CM7/A7b9 - Dm7/G13 - C6/F7 - C6
Now like this:
CM7/C#o - Dm7/Db7b5 - CM7/Bb7-B7 - CM7
This could go on and on... but the last version is the same as the first, it's just mutated, that's all. When does it stop being a few chords and start being 'jazz'?
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look at 3:40....Miles about the word 'jazz':
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I don't have a strong opinion WRT can you play pop songs in a 'jazz style'. But there is a related concept that does interest me and that is 'can you use selected jazz principles to make pop songs more interesting'. To me the answer to that latter question is yes (and I am old so kind of stuck in the classic rock era when it comes to 'pop music').
dave
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Hey, this is simple. Check out macuser2 on YouTube. He’s been at it since 2008. He’s got nearly 400 videos, each a lesson unto itself. Each modern jazz takes on popular music.
Rhythmic changes, chord substitution, superb playing on every one of his tunes.
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Most anything can be done. An example
Last edited by Average Joe; 04-13-2022 at 03:01 AM.
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Some things should not be done.
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Wes is a pioneer in making pop to jazz:
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