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Nice one Joe
Originally Posted by losaltosjoe
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10-31-2021 01:09 PM
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Here's my first effort. Just did the final sequence as written in F. Couple of observations below.
- I found that when I tried to do this in a key where I was starting with a chord with the root on the 6th string, e.g. A7, then the IV7 chord root falls naturally on the 5th string. All good so far - but then the change from IV7 to #IVdim7 is awkward (the sixth string was forever ringing - see the next comment). I need to spend some time here.
- I find myself naturally wanting to play the 6th, 4th, and 3rd strings - the shapes as written with the I7 using strings 5,4, and 3 I find awkward as I'm having to make sure I deaden the 6th. Again, an area of practice. I guess the ideal is to be able to deaden any of the strings at will.
- I'm not sure I like the sound of that VI7 chord in bar 8 and 11 - none of the blues melodies I know seem to sit well with it (they don't sit well with that diminished chord either - particularly the second time we use it when it's a whole bar long). I guess we'll explore this further as we move along.
I still want to spend a bit more time on the singing aspect and being able to hear all the different tones. This is coming on but I know time spent now will benefit me later when we get on to the 3rds and 7ths chapter. But I'm more than happy for folks to move at their own pace and I'll catch up as and when. I did try one of these Study Groups once before but it moved too quickly for me and I realised I wasn't able to learn the material as quickly as others, so I think self-pacing is good, with the whole thread becoming a useful resource to move in and out of, up and down through, etc as needed.
Regards
Derek
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Sounds good, Derek. Just one quick observation while I have a moment. You mention preferring to have a note on the 6th string, otherwise you might accidentally hit it. I agree it’s a problem if you are doing that big swing Swing style. We seem to all be assuming that’s how we should be playing these exercises, but I think a variety of approaches should be explored, rhythmically and technically. Not every beat needs to be struck. Must go…
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I was not sure to participate or not -- have a lot of studies in pipeline already. But this buy indeed seems to be a good way to give something back to Dirk - I've learned a lot from his site and from this community (in particular I would have probably bailed out of going through Leawitt book if I didn't find archives of the study group).
Here it is-- I did the summary page (i.e. each variation once). As others have noticed -- this is not that easy as it looks even if you are sort of familiar with it. Not enough steadiness (besides falling asleep in places, this my 3rd or 4th attempt -- playing from memory I kept omitting or inserting a chord here or there till I finally managed to get it like written in the table).
By the way, I'm curios why b9 in the D7b9? The shell doesn't have it. Is this b9 really always implied in this VI7 (I didn't notice this before or may be didn't pay attention)?
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Welcome aboard, Danil. That sounds great, a good foundation to solo over.
Yes, the b9 is implied. We’re dealing with four or five-note chords, while only playing three notes, so something has to give.
Often a soloist doesn’t know if the comper will play a flat, sharp or natural nine, which should affect what she/he will play. So it’s best to leave anything beyond the 7th out of the chord, then the soloist has free rein.
It would be a good idea for us all to be aware of the intervals of the shell voicings we are playing.
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I organised a workshop for Frank Vignola three years ago when Vinny was with him. Man, these guys are so jaw droppingly tight it's unreal.
Frank would just call a tune and himself and Vinny would lock in straight away.
Vinny used loads of three note chords which this video explains
I even wound up in Franks hotel room. He's a really nice guy and a great entertainer.
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Well done Derek! I liked that. Originally Posted by digger
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Welcome Danil and thumbs up on the video! Originally Posted by Danil
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Second video on chapter one - this time played fingerstyle. Far easier for me as I don't have to worry about deadening that pesky sixth string when playing shapes on 5,4, and 3. That said, I think what I want to get out of this is more of that Freddie Green style so I will have to continue practicing the deadening of strings at will.
Here I've played through the final 12 bar sequence in chapter one in Bb, B, and C.
Regards
Derek
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Sounds great Derek. I'll have a go at this too but it won't be until tomorrow when I have some free time.
A great way to use this comping is to make your own rhythm track when we play the solo material from chapter 2 onwards.
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Very good, Derek. Loved the key changes
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Cheers Rob - I learned from your "side Lesson" earlier in the thread and simply dropped in a leading dominant 7 to take me to the new key. I think it worked. Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
Very good, Derek. Loved the key changes
Derek
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It did. Now throw in a quick ii chord to make it a 251
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Not trying to jump in... looks like great thread. But one thing I noticed is that all the posts seem to have very straight feels and attacks.
To get that swing feel you need to think and feel in triplets. Not rock 12/8 thing but jazz swing. quarter note is three 8ths in a triplet.
So the attack or down beat is the 1st 8th of triplet, the 2nd is usually a rest and the 3rd is your rhythmic up stroke which is muffled, more of a brush. The groove is defined by that up stroke which implies the down beat.
The down beat can then be delayed. How much you get behind the beat will help make feel lock in. And can also use to create patterns to also create longer rhythmic patterns, which lock in groove or feel etc...
If you take each beat and make each 8th a triplet, each quarter would become a 16th note sextuplet or 6 attacks per beat. Slow it down and practice playing the 1st and 6th attack. This will help develop the feel.
Not trying to derail etc.. If you don't have the feel, it doesn't really matter what notes you play, it just won't sound right... but when you have the feel... it will sound right with almost any notes, LOL.
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Chapter 1: Variation 1: Adding ii-V Changes
Page 11: For this take, I tried to emphasize longer beats on 1&3 and shorter beats on 2&4. I also tried to be more percussive.
Here's a clip of the exercise transposed to Bb at 140 BPM.
Onward to page 12!
Joe
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I’ve been enjoying working through the Ch1 exercises and trying to transpose, including keys starting on 6th string e.g. Bb. Working out fingering for IV7-#IVdim7-I7/V movement on 5th string. Is that generally just a personal thing, do whatever works best? There seems to be variation in videos posted and its not always easy to see what’s going on. Hope that makes sense!
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Any fingering will do, Jona, but obviously some movements will be more efficient than others. In the second half of the last variation (see my video above) I keep my pinkie (little finger) on the 3rd string as a Guide Finger, which can often make position changes easier.
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Lots of good posts above, and a timely intervention from Reg. When Reg talks, we should all listen. Take heed of what he says about swing and timing.
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Thanks Rob, i looked at that post carefully, its was really helpful from the start. I’ve been using the little finger as a guide as you say. I was getting a bit tangled trying to apply that to new chords but think I’m on right track based on what you say Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
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Good. Very often the second finger is my guide, especially in keys where I place the root of the key on the 6th string.
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Page 16, a different style each chorus. (Stayed with the chapter on the 1st chorus and then tried to embellish).
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Outstanding!
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Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
I really enjoyed that walking bassline. Something else to shoot for! Thanks! Originally Posted by fep
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Chapter 1: Variation 2: Quick Change Chords
Page 12: For this take, I tried to incorporate Reg's comments in post #89:
I believe all I succeeded in doing was adding a muffled stroke on the up beat of 4."To get that swing feel you need to think and feel in triplets... So the attack or down beat is the 1st 8th of triplet, the 2nd is usually a rest and the 3rd is your rhythmic up stroke which is muffled, more of a brush. The groove is defined by that up stroke which implies the down beat.
Perhaps someone can provide an example of the correct way to play the swing triplets?
Here's a clip of Example 4 in the key of F at 110 BPM.
On to page 14.
Thanks,
Joe
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I agree Joe. I've been trying and failing, too :-) A lot of what I've read over the years has suggested leaving out the up-stroke until one is really confident - I think Jimmy Raniolo ( who was mentioned earlier in the thread) said this - but I apologise if he didn't. Certainly in several of the gypsy jazz books and videos I have on rhythm this is suggested. So for a long time I've avoided the up stroke. I know this thread isn't about gypsy jazz, but the bit that always flummoxed me was the idea that the up stroke had to be quick, irrespective of the tempo. Which always foxed me, as I like my right hand going up and down in rhythm... Hah. I've probably got this all wrong, anyway. On the plus side, all this right hand practice now means that our left hands (*) are getting extra practice without us realising! Originally Posted by losaltosjoe
I've moved on to practising singing my thirds along with these sequences. Which is a lot harder than the roots.
Derek
(*) Assuming you're not Jimi Hendrix or, in the context of the thread, Wayne Wright
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