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It's the bass player right?
That's who you'd line up with for your 'metronome'?
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10-17-2020 12:16 PM
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I'd say drums followed by bass. Jazz bass can go all over the place these days but drums and bass together do it. You could add piano if you're soloing. If you're comping then... maybe you too :-)
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Often, there's a dominant player-- one who is so clear and accurate that everyone naturally follows. Could be any instrument. I think it's somewhat unusual for a jazz guitarist to be that guy, although I think Reg is definitely a guy who can do that. In that situation, everybody has the usual responsibility to play in the collective pocket. If there isn't a dominant player, all the players have to work out the time and keep it going.
Originally Posted by jobabrinks
Advanced jazz involves some playing around with the time -- in that situation everybody has to keep the time individually.
One master player told me, "everybody gets off the time sometimes, the question is, how you get back on". That's a matter of keeping your ears open and not being overly focused on the sound of your own instrument.Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 10-19-2020 at 04:54 AM.
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No idea.
Practice your time though, because it might be you at some point.
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Me.
Danny W.
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Even when you aren't on the gig? Originally Posted by Danny W.
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Everyone is responsible for the beat or ‘groove’ in a band. When you’re playing you are either enhancing the groove or detracting from it. Obviously we want to be the former and not the latter. So the question is, what am I adding to this groove? If you don’t know, then you should probably stop playing.
I think it’s a mistake to put the responsibility of the time keeper or beat keeper onto one person.
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Especially then! Originally Posted by christianm77
Some time ago the leader of my big band had us trying out a rather bizarre and confusing new chart at a rehearsal. Halfway through I realized I was lost. Trying to pick out the changes from the horns seemed futile, since they were having their own trainwreck, so I just soldiered on. When the chart finally came to an end the rhythm section was together, miraculously. I told the drummer that I'd been totally lost and he said " Are you kidding? You were the only one who had it right. We were all hanging on to you" and the bass player turned around and said "What he said, so shut up and play your guitar."
When people ask what I do in a big band I tell them "I'm the glue that holds it all together." Sometimes I'm not kidding.
Danny W.Last edited by Danny W.; 10-17-2020 at 06:55 PM.
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Everyone is responsible for keeping the time.
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Who keeps the beat in a duo? Nobody. Either the duo swings or it doesn't.
In a band, if one person is out, that person is preventing the band from keeping it together. If more than one persons are out, than oh boy.
I think it's a dangerous business to lean on other players. I don't see how it can work as a long term strategy.Last edited by Tal_175; 10-17-2020 at 07:43 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
Both needs to have an internal beat that sync with each other.
If the soloist is out, but the rhythm section is in the pocket, the band as a whole can still keep it together. Of course it will not sound good, but it is less troublesome than if the rhythm section would not be in sync. Originally Posted by Tal_175
Not even as a short term strategy. Originally Posted by Tal_175
Everyone MUST have a strong internal sense of the pulse, otherwise the results will be compromised.
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Yeah that's what I meant. Nobody is keeping the beat for the other. Originally Posted by greveost
To me band keeping it together means, from the audience perspective, the performance is tight and swinging. If one person is out, it ruins the performance. Even if it's the soloist.
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I think there are some old threads about research along these lines which indicate that musicians playing together "synchronize" their brains in terms of their time sense. I have had people I have played with that I just cannot synchronize with and get into a groove that works, while with other players the groove is just there from the first downbeat. When you do find that, it is amazing how much easier it is to play music.
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Monk said: just because you are not the drummer doesn’t mean you don’t have to keep the time.
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In R&B the backbeat is on the snare, 2 and 4. In Jazz Swing the 2 &4 is on the high hat. The Bass often plays quarters for the pulse.
It used to be the guitar playing quarters in early big band swing.
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On a good night, everyone in the group. On a bad night....
If your'e not keeping the pulse, you are not doing your whole job.
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Its everybody and nobody, if the group is good.
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The drummer "owns" the beat;
everyone else "keeps" the beat,
but not necessarily "on" a beat.
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Lawrence Lucie, guitarist with Louis Armstrong, Benny Carter and Jelly Roll Morton, among many others, described the function of the FOUR piece rhythm section thusly:
1. The bass player is in charge of 1 and 3.
2. The guitar player is in charge of 2 and 4.
3. The drummer is in charge of making sure that the music is swinging.
4. The piano player is in charge of the music.
5. The bass player & the guitar player TOGETHER are in charge of making sure the drummer doesn’t rush.
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I am not sure how can anybody prevent a rushing drummer... Originally Posted by christianm77
Having this doubt on #5 I re-read the other points and it turns out practically all statements may have issues...
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I think this is actually quite accurate for a four piece swing/old school dance band rhythm section.
The guitar and the bass are very locked it in this style, and the drummers job is being the swing and the fire, so they do tend to speed up sometimes and you can totally keep them in check, a bit like a metronome. That was Freddie Green’s job back in the Baisie band; apparently the band would fall apart without him.
this obviously not true if you are playing some sort of modern comp style. But in this case the music frequently speeds up, so maybe that’s why lol.
But seriously it goes to show how there’s no simple yes/no answer to the OP.Last edited by christianm77; 10-19-2020 at 05:06 AM.
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A few years ago I went to a seminar with several leading (trumpet) players. One piece of wisdom was, listen to the ride cymbal for time.
Like the previous comment about big band playing, though- with the BB I was playing with, I try to lock in with the bass and listen to the drummer- he reads charts, too, and doesn't get lost!
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One bassist I know sets up right next to the hi-hat. He wants to be sure he can hear it and he wants to be able to lock in visually if necessary.
I did a wedding gig with him once where the space was so tight that my leg was pressed against the acoustic bass. Time was good all night.
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When I could I would set up so that I could see (and hopefully hear) the hi-hat. I find the more finely subdivided ticaticaticatic of the hi-hat a better indicator of tempo and feel than the kick and snare (let alone toms) which tend to be a bit wobbly, sometimes. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
It didn't always help, but it didn't hurt.
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Everyone. including the listener.
Tim
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